[Beta]

When you case an Improve Attributes or Improve Reflexes spell normally, if you have more than one success and want to keep the extra successes you can, at the cost of extra drain (1 more drain for each extra success you decide to keep).

However with preparations you pay the drain well before you ever see the result of the spell being cast, so you don't know how many successes are available.  I suppose that the logical thing is that when casting the preparation you decide how many extra successes you are willing to support, and pay the drain on them. 

So for example, you create an Improve Logic preparation, which normally has a base drain of 3 and as a health spell has to have a command trigger (+2 drain), but you want to be able to get two successes when it goes off, so you increase the drain by one more to 6.  When you finish making the preparation you are resisted by the drain (6) but hopefully end up with some successes, giving you potency = net successes. When you command the preparation to activate you roll (remaining) potency + your magic, vs a threshold of 5-essence, and hopefully get at least two net successes (and if the target has an essence of 6, this means only needing to roll one success).

This sound about right to everyone?  Or do you see it differently?

(and yes the question is pretty abstract, because alchemy is so painful in 6e that I doubt I'll use it, but I was looking at converting a 5e character concept over and was trying to figure out how things would work).

[Stainless Steel Devil Rat]

The way I see it, you're not making an alchemical preparation with Increase (Attribute) with X net hits... you're making an alchemical preparation with Increase (attribute) and the net hits won't be resolved until the preparation is triggered.

so walking thru:

Step 1: choose the spell Increase Logic

Step 2: choose the command trigger (+2 drain)

Step 3: create the preparation.  net hits here don't increase logic, and are therefore not capped at +4.  Likewise, by my understanding the rule regarding DV going up with each net hit is in the context of a capped +4 bonus to the attribute.  Net hits that are not increasing the attribute and not capped at +4 (i.e. enchanting a preparation) do not also pump up the drain.  Per the rules for step 3, you can burn another 2 reagents for to counter the command trigger.  You're gonna roll vs 3 dice, and not be capped at 4 net hits for Potency.

step 4: soak the enchanting drain, which is base 3 + 2 command trigger - probable 2 from reagents.  Not hiked up for net hits to Logic, since there haven't been any nit hits applied to increasing Logic yet... again net hits from the previous step are applied to generating and increasing Potency.

Using the Increase Logic preparation:  it rolls Magic + Potency vs threshold of (5-Essence), with a cap of 4 net hits for +4 Logic.  The increased drain for each net hit after the first is ignored, since drain was already handled in step 4.


Edit: Put another way, you can't know what the (5-Essence) threshold is going to be during Step 3.  You can only know how many net hits the Increase Logic spell effect is going to have is when it is actually triggered, and basically the primary thing about preparations is they don't do any drain when cast... only when enchanted.

[Sir Ludwig]

Beta,

Spells and preparation may have the same effect, but how they get there is different. 

So, it should work like SSDR stated above.   

Regards,
SL

[Finstersang]

Not sure if that´s RAI or just something that once again wasn´t properly thought through in the first place, BUT I definitely like this reading because it helps Alchemy to catch up with regular spellcasting, at least for a number of "additional Net Hits increase Drain" spells.

Now if there only were rules for sustaining spells from preparations...    

[Beta]

Thanks all!  It does make preparations at least a bit better in one area (and some of the trigger options in Street Wyrd help too).  It is just those multi-hour prep times that are still brutal (obviously alchemy was so OP in 5e that it needed a nerf to make it used less    )

[funkytim]

I have a similar question about increase attribute and drain.  When casting something like increase Willpower or your other drain attribute does the spell take affect before or after the drain roll?  Those extra 4 dice to reduce drain would help a lot.  I've been assuming so far that the drain roll comes first but I'm hoping that I am wrong.

[funkytim]

Wish I but some points into enchanting at chargen after seeing this post.

[funkytim]

Also, how long does the affect last?  Is it a sustained spell that affects your dice pools or does it last the potency*2 hours?  I'm guessing the latter because a mundane can use the preparation but can't sustain a spell.

[Stainless Steel Devil Rat]

I have a similar question about increase attribute and drain.  When casting something like increase Willpower or your other drain attribute does the spell take affect before or after the drain roll?  Those extra 4 dice to reduce drain would help a lot.  I've been assuming so far that the drain roll comes first but I'm hoping that I am wrong.

The order of operations establishes that the spell's effect takes place before drain is handled.  If you throw a fireball where the drain knocks your character out, it still goes boom THEN the drain is applied.  Therefore, if you cast Increase (Drain Attribute) the spell resolves its effect, THEN you do drain.  So you have that augmentation in place for the roll!

Also, how long does the affect last?  Is it a sustained spell that affects your dice pools or does it last the potency*2 hours?  I'm guessing the latter because a mundane can use the preparation but can't sustain a spell.

That was a hole patched in earlier errata, and it might not be in your book.  If it is, it's on page 51 and is the last sentence of the "Using a Preparation" section.

If you have a copy that doesn't incorporate prior errata, here's the line for your knowledge:

Sustained spells remain in effect for one minute per
remaining potency upon trigger.

[funkytim]

Thanks SSDR.  That helps a lot.
Thanks to Beta for asking the original question.