[FastJack]

IMO, Kwai Chung Kane AKA Grasshopper doesn't fit Pacifist - he just didn't look for trouble.  That's different.

Actually, the 5 pt Pacifist isn't a total pacifist either. If their life or well-being is threatened, they can act to defend themselves.

[Rockopolis]

See, that always bothered me; I don't want to kill someone by accident, that would suck.  But that Blood Mage over there?  Totally going to accidentally on purpose kill him.

I suppose you could be like Batman "I don't have to save you." or Charles Bronson, where you go running into situations where you need to self-defense someone to death.

[FastJack]

I suppose you could be like Batman "I don't have to save you."...

Grrrrr... That is the ONLY thing I disliked about that move. Yes, Batman DOES have to save him.

Anyway, back to the topic, Kane from Kung-Fu would be a 5 pt Pacifist. Simon Tam, Shepard Book and Kaylee Frye from Firefly would also be considered 5 pt Pacifists.

The only true 10 pt Pacifists I can think of are Ghandi, Leo Tolstoy, Martin Luther King Jr. and Henry David Thoreau. The ONLY fictional pacifist I can think of is Johnny 5 from Short Circuit. And that fact makes me kinda sad.

[Rockopolis]

Oh man, Johnny 5 is alive! +1

Yeah, Batman needed to save him.  How can anyone go on, without Liam Neeson?
More Shadowrun-like, you totally need to save him or you're never going to find the body and Batman III is going to star a Cyberzombie Ra's al Ghul.

[Triggvi]

a 5 pt pacifist does start fights, he finishes them. Kane from kung-fu never started fights he finished them though.

Most of my character tend toward not killing people anyway. Dead bodies breed cops like tribbles on star trek

[Longshot23]

a 5 pt pacifist does start fights, he finishes them. Kane from kung-fu never started fights he finished them though.

Most of my character tend toward not killing people anyway. Dead bodies breed cops like tribbles on star trek

That's a useful way of putting it - thanks for that. 'Course, it means most of us Aussies are 5 pt Pacifists . . . . 

It's funny-strange, but every time that point about killing was made on Shadowland or (less often) Jackpoint, there were howls of protest about killing being necessary and anybody who didn't kill wasn't wanted on such-&-such a team.

[Triggvi]

a 5 pt pacifist does start fights, he finishes them. Kane from kung-fu never started fights he finished them though.

Most of my character tend toward not killing people anyway. Dead bodies breed cops like tribbles on star trek

That's a useful way of putting it - thanks for that. 'Course, it means most of us Aussies are 5 pt Pacifists . . . . 

It's funny-strange, but every time that point about killing was made on Shadowland or (less often) Jackpoint, there were howls of protest about killing being necessary and anybody who didn't kill wasn't wanted on such-&-such a team.

That sounds less like a shadow-running team and more like a gang initiation. I pride myself on low body count games.

Even my psycho-skater sammie rarely kills anyone. He has dropped a half dozen gangers with submachinguns without killing any of them. He skated through the gun fire nailed with shockhand.

[All4BigGuns]

On the subject of the Uncouth quality, here's another good time to take it. Some GMs insist on practically ignoring the existence of the Social Skills instead requiring a full "play it out" with every social interaction. Well, if a player is not very good themselves at such things, then because of their nature that player pretty much needs to sit out of that particular scene. Why not let them get some extra BP with Uncouth so the character can be better at something they can participate in?

[Triggvi]

On the subject of the Uncouth quality, here's another good time to take it. Some GMs insist on practically ignoring the existence of the Social Skills instead requiring a full "play it out" with every social interaction. Well, if a player is not very good themselves at such things, then because of their nature that player pretty much needs to sit out of that particular scene. Why not let them get some extra BP with Uncouth so the character can be better at something they can participate in?

I just have a issues with people taking major neg qualities that they never intend to play. Have you ever considered that maybe allowing your less than socially adept friend work at social stuff might make him better at it?

[JoeNapalm]

On the subject of the Uncouth quality, here's another good time to take it. Some GMs insist on practically ignoring the existence of the Social Skills instead requiring a full "play it out" with every social interaction. Well, if a player is not very good themselves at such things, then because of their nature that player pretty much needs to sit out of that particular scene. Why not let them get some extra BP with Uncouth so the character can be better at something they can participate in?

I just have a issues with people taking major neg qualities that they never intend to play. Have you ever considered that maybe allowing your less than socially adept friend work at social stuff might make him better at it?

Indeed. And...this is an RPG.

While the player's RP abilities should certainly impact the game, at the same time - someone who is personally uncouth could still play an Elf with ridiculous CHA and Social Skills.

Also, if I were GMing and someone took the Uncouth Negative Quality and tried to dodge out of it simply by not saying anything...well, let's just say that Uncouth is more than just putting your foot in your mouth. (Nothing clears out a ballroom like a flatulent Troll.)

-Jn-
Ifriti Sophist

[All4BigGuns]

I actually can see both points.

@JoeNapalm: My point was really that the quality could give a few extra BP to a player who wouldn't be able to do much in the social aspect anyway. Some GMs just seem to have a strange aversion to letting a player who isn't a "social butterfly" themselves use Social Skills to back up their characters' negotiations and diplomacy.

[JoeNapalm]

I get that...I just wonder if they let the skinny guy at end of the table play a Troll?

Charisma is a strange thing - you could have an awkward dude that everyone just seems to like.

It's an RPG. If the guy wants to play a Face, I say let 'im try. You don't tell someone they can't play an Elf because they're too short, do ya?

-Jn-
Ifriti Sophist