[SlipperyChummer]

Is Exceptional Attribute(Magic) worth it for a summoner?

I know the appeal of getting Force 7 spirits over Force 6 ones, but would F6 still do the job? If so, then the special attribute point could raise edge instead (which is quite useful in a number of ways), and the 14 karma could be used on money, foci, spirit affinity, or focused concentration. I want to know if it's a matter of diminishing marginal returns, or if F7 is always worth the karma.

[Whiskeyjack]

I don't think so. I can't think of a situation where Force 7 was appreciably more "important" or "necessary" or where F6 wasn't perfectly sufficient.

I mean is it nice? Sure, I suppose. But there's a big opportunity cost. Whether it's worth it completely depends if +1 MAG is worth the other resources expensed (karma and a SAP, or effectively, karma and -1 Edge).

Personally I think the PQ is more useful in a one shot or a game intended to be fairly short since it maximizes your MAG at chargen and over a short period where you may never have the chance to raise it. For an open ended game that could keep going for years, personally I think there might be better things to spend starting karma on and while you might always be "behind" in the long run, it's not as big of a deal and I'd rather have the Edge.

That said it's better than any other Exceptional Attribute since MAG/RES are the only stats that can grow infinitely over time (as in they don't have a hard cap set by metatype).

[Csjarrat]

It's great if you're not planning on playing.g the long game and saving karma for months to initiate and then raise magic. I guess it's kinda neat on an adept as they get their seventh PowerPoint through it as well and it's only one more karma than initiating and a bit of in-game time saved.

[sn0mm1s]

Well worth it IMO. That said, spirits and their uses cause heated discussions on SR boards and some GMs take issue with using spirits outside of what they consider the spirit of the game. You need to figure out what your GM views as acceptable spirit use and go from there.

[firebug]

take issue with using spirits outside of what they consider the spirit of the game

I see what you did there.

Overall the thing is, the quality costs 14 Karma, initiating uses 13.  However, if you use a Special Attribute Point, that saves you 35 Karma at the cost of 1 point of Edge.  If you're Human (1) at E priority, that would be 15 Karma of Edge, meaning you're saving 19 Karma total but that's less PQs you can buy.  Could be worth it, certainly, unless you want a lot of positive qualities.

I don't find it's necessary though.  6 MAG is enough to do very well already, one extra doesn't add much beyond making spirits (an already very powerful asset) even more powerful.  Using it on Willpower and having an extra point of Stun and Drain Resist seems like a better use in my eyes, but still, that's not saying Exceptional Attribute (MAG) is bad.

[Hobbes]

For most mages Focused Concentration and Mentor Spirit are more worthwhile.  For a Prime Runner it's a possibility.  Especially if you're in some Sumto12ormore kinda game and the extra SAPs are there. 

For Physical Adepts.... maybe?  If you're restricted to the core book, than you're getting into "sure why not?" territory. 

But for summoning look at Spirit Affinity before Exceptional Attribute if you're not picking up Focused Concentration.

[firebug]

MAG is a bit more important for Adepts since it affects the cap on PP and gives an extra one.  However there's not many abilities you'd likely have at cap--  Combat Sense is the only one I can think of.

[sn0mm1s]

MAG is a bit more important for Adepts since it affects the cap on PP and gives an extra one.  However there's not many abilities you'd likely have at cap--  Combat Sense is the only one I can think of.

There are plenty - at least the adepts I play. Combat Sense, Spell Resistance, Iron Will, and I *really* like Adrenaline Boost if you build your adept around soaking drain. I am playing an adept that has around 200-250 karma and, when needed, I can bump his drain pool up to 27 dice.

[sn0mm1s]

For most mages Focused Concentration and Mentor Spirit are more worthwhile.  For a Prime Runner it's a possibility.  Especially if you're in some Sumto12ormore kinda game and the extra SAPs are there. 

For Physical Adepts.... maybe?  If you're restricted to the core book, than you're getting into "sure why not?" territory. 

But for summoning look at Spirit Affinity before Exceptional Attribute if you're not picking up Focused Concentration.

As a character built around summoning? I would rather go Exceptional Attribute + Spirit Whisperer and be able to summon Force 8 spirits without any GM complaining about oversummoning right out of chargen.

[Hibiki54]

Force 7 Spirit means that all it's rolls will average 14-16 dice depending on the spirit type. That is very strong in a build-up style of campaign where the Professional Rating starts around 3 in the early game, but that will taper off around mid-game unless Summoning is the caster's focus.

[gilga]

I like exceptional magic as mystic adept to start with 7 power points and 7 magic.  I also like for pure mage, the reason for that is that if you also take spirit whisperer F8 spirit is amazing. If you build around buffing your spirit champion than you can have an ace in the pocket is incredible. It can even cast spells better than you if you do spellcasting better than you. Use spirit powers like influence concealment and fight in an insane way.  (and you can always buff it to be even more amazing. few extra dice for dodge, more armor or even invisibility(?!)) Other than that exceptional magic let you start with a 'power focus' even at resources E and you can even build a mystic adept with 7 power points and 7 magic that I find extremely cool even if you do miss some good positive qualities like a mentor and so on.

for the latter for 14+5 karma you get the equivalent of:
 6 karma power focus, 8 karma QI focus (for 1 extra power point) and 15 karma in money so 29 karma for the cost of 19 and you lose some edge. (bad overall karmic value (unless your edge is 1,  but when money is tight I feel that this is a very nice way to start a mystic character.)