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[SR5] Feedback on what I'm missing.

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Holiday

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« on: <11-24-13/1716:30> »
Righto, a lurker of these forums and first time poster. I'm playing in a slightly different non missions game, with a few houserules. Street level game to start with using normal char gen rules. 35 karma start with up to 35 in negative qualities. I've come up with a street shaman/face (lot of those around here) and was hoping for advice on items to make a priority to buy asap or anything critical I've overlooked. Unfortunately most of my money is going into bribes and paying contacts for the foreseeable future. Post char gen after 1 run.

Priority's:
A-Attributes 24
B-Elf (6)
C-Magician, Magic 3, 5 Spells
D-Skills 22/0
E-Resources 6000Y

Limits:
Physical Limit: 4
Mental Limit: 6
Social Limit: 10

Attributes:
Body-3
Agility-5
Reaction-4
Strength-3
Willpower-5
Logic-3
Intuition-5
Charisma-8
Essence-6
Magic-7
Edge-3
Initiative-9+1d6
Astral Initiative-10+2d6
Composure-13
Judge Intentions-13
Memory-8
Lift/Carry:30kg
Movement:10/40 meters

Skill groups/Skills:
Acting 1
Stealth 1
Influence 2
Spellcasting 5
Counterspelling 3
Summoning 6
Banishing 5
Arcana 1
Assensing 1
Perception 1
Pilot groundcraft 1

Know skills:
Magical Theory 4
Magical Threats 2
Sprawl Life 4
Seattle 4
Street Gang Identification 2
English N

Qualities:
Exceptional Attribute Magic
Indomitable Social
Simsense Vertigo
Allergy Sand
Code of Honor

Contacts C/L
Fixer: 4/1
Street Doc: 3/1
Talismonger: 6/4
Beat Cop: 4/2
Mrs. Johnson: 1/2

Lifestyles: Low/2000Y
Fake sin/Licenses: Fake SIN rating 4, Fake License to practice magic rating 4

Armor: Actioneer Business Clothes Ar. ( 8 )/Urban Explorer Jumpsuit Ar. (9)

Electronics: Meta Link, Biometric Reader, Subvocal mic, data chip, Tag eraser, Gold Credstick

Biotech: Medkit rating 6 (7 resupplies), Trauma patch

Random Gear: Force 10 Magic Lodge, Flashlight, Gas Mask, Survival Kit

Vehicle: Remodified garbage truck, using ares roadmaster template.

Spells: Heal, Stunbolt, Acid Stream, Detect Magic (extended), Control Thoughts, Improved Attribute Charisma, Improved Invisibility, Physical Mask.
« Last Edit: <11-24-13/1718:19> by Holiday »

baronspam

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« Reply #1 on: <11-24-13/1913:55> »
I will leave skill allocation analysis to someone more knowledgeable.  The thing I notice immediately wrong is your gear.  You took a resource priority of E, giving you a paltry 6k Nuyen to work with.  Karma could raise this to 26k with karma, but your vehicle alone costs twice that.  (although I love the concept of a garbage truck)  Your magic lodge materials have a availability rating of 20, not available by standard rules.    Someone with an E resources, even with spending initial karma to raise extra funds, is basically going to start with a motorcycle, some armor, a gun or two, not much else.  A level 4 fake SIN cost 10,000 by itself.  You said this was after one run, but unless that run consisted of giant boxes of money falling out of the sky something is fishy here

mrcatman

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« Reply #2 on: <11-24-13/2307:55> »
IMHO, to call yourself a face, you should take at least 1 rank in the Cha-based skills so you're not defaulting (Con, Etiquette, Impersonation [good for Phy.Mask spell], Intimidation, Negotiation). And the Influence spell would be a given for any mage/face for me.

Beyond that, I'd strongly recommend squeezing as many ranks of Focused Concentration (positive quality) in as possible. Personally, I'd grab all 6 for the flexibility since your houserules are up to 35 pts in positive qualities (and that it's so much cheaper at char.gen than later on); otherwise try for 4 minimum and sustain a Force 4 Increase Reflexes (or Phy.Mask or Invis, etc). Or all of the above using reagents to break the limits on several Force 1 spells.

A mage with initiative of 9+1d6 in our games would get destroyed. You simply can't act often enough. The F4 Inc.Reflexes would bump that to 13+3d6 giving you a decent chance of getting at least 21 and going 3 times per combat turn. Three times as much casting is potent.

Our group's elf shaman is as follows:

A - magic (rating 6, plus two R5 skills, and 10 spells)
B - attributes (20 pts)
C - elf (3 SAP); Edge 1 to 4
D - skills (22/0)
E - nuyen (6k)

attributes:
BOD 1 (+2) = 3
AGI 2 (+1) = 3
REA 1 (+4) = 5
STR 1 (+0) = 1
WIL 1 (+4) = 5
LOG 1 (+0) = 1... to 2 (w/Karma)
INT 1 (+4) = 5
CHA 3 (+5) = 8

INIT (with F4 Inc.Reflexes in Foc.Concentration): 14+3d6

karma
starting karma: +25 pts
positive qualities: Foc.Concentration 5 (-20 pts)
negative qualities: pick your favorite (+25 pts)
= 30 pts to spend during creation
-10 karma for 5 skills rating 0 to rating 1 (below)
-10 karma for LOG rating 1 to 2
-10 karma for 2 additional spell known

skills:
(free/magic) spellcasting 5, summoning 5
(22 individual) spellcasting 5 to 6 [and manipulation specilization] (2 pts), summon 5 to 6 (1 pt), binding 6, perception 6, counterspelling 6, assensing 1
(10 karma): negotiation 1, etiquette 1, impersonation 1, con 1, intimidation 1

spells (10 free/magic + 2 from karma = 12 total, which is max knowable for MAG 6)
resist pain, heal, manabolt, fireball, improved reflexes, physical mask, trid phantasm, mob mind, influence, analyze truth, mind probe, levitate

His Rating 5 Focused Concentration is very flexible, either one or two spells (like Force 4 Improved Reflexes and a reagent-broken-limit+Force 1 spell), or five reagent-broken-limit+Force 1 spells (like when he needs to cast Phy.Mask on the entire team).

All his spells proved to be super useful. Resist Pain is one of our favorites given that it becomes permanent, so you can buff the whole team before the meet.

His background/contacts are all based on detective-investigator-esk stuff to round out his detection/manipulation spells and face-ness.
« Last Edit: <11-24-13/2314:38> by mrcatman »

Michael Chandra

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« Reply #3 on: <11-25-13/0404:43> »
IMHO, to call yourself a face, you should take at least 1 rank in the Cha-based skills so you're not defaulting (Con, Etiquette, Impersonation [good for Phy.Mask spell], Intimidation, Negotiation). And the Influence spell would be a given for any mage/face for me.
It says he has Acting 1 and Influence 2.
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Gaius

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« Reply #4 on: <11-25-13/0634:24> »


His Rating 5 Focused Concentration is very flexible, either one or two spells (like Force 4 Improved Reflexes and a reagent-broken-limit+Force 1 spell), or five reagent-broken-limit+Force 1 spells (like when he needs to cast Phy.Mask on the entire team).

I like that character build a lot, but according to my (german) rulebook its not allowed to use focused concentration for more then one spell. Correct me if I´m wrong since that would change my view on focused concentration distinctly.

In both builds i miss a decent assensing skill. IMO a sam has to spot mundanely and a mage has to be got in assensing and spotting magically threats.


Michael Chandra

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« Reply #5 on: <11-25-13/0642:31> »
I'm pretty sure you can't split Focused Concentration in the english rules either. It's stated as letting you sustain a single spell up to Rating in Force.
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Rotor

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« Reply #6 on: <11-25-13/0730:09> »
Quote
Exceptional Attribute Magic

I don't get why you would need this quality with Magic 3?

Michael Chandra

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« Reply #7 on: <11-25-13/0734:04> »
He got 3 Magic from his Magic Priority, and put 4 Special Points in it for a total of 7.
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Jimmy_Pvish

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« Reply #8 on: <11-25-13/1032:26> »
Resource E is really hard to build.

I always found myself can't take resource below C, ever with mage.

Power Focus 3 and Sustaining Focus 4 are too good to pass and they are already 70k.
Audio/Visual equipment are nearly 10k
Fake SIN and license at rating 4 are 10k+
Plus armors and utility gear(Gas mask, medkit, jammer etc) are around 10k

That is already 100k.

ZeConster

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« Reply #9 on: <11-25-13/1039:09> »
Why would a mage need audio/visual equipment? You can only use your natural vision for aiming spells. Meanwhile, the more expensive utility items are something not everyone in the group needs to have, so you can let someone with more nuyen to spare handle that, and foci, while handy, aren't really "too good to pass" at chargen (in fact, until you get some Initiate grades and the Masking metamagic, they may make you easier to notice), especially if it costs you a Priority level or 2 in other aspects of your character. That just leaves a fake SIN, some fake licenses, armor, and a gas mask as the bare essentials.

Wolfbeard

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« Reply #10 on: <11-25-13/1047:02> »
Nuyen is easy to come by in most runs, so starting with Resources - E is not a bad deal for a mage/shaman. The cost for Foci at chargen is the same as after chargen, so there really isn't any need to force them into your starting character if you don't want to.

I actually built my mage with Skills - E and Resources - D. I picked up two foci at chargen and regret it now. I could have used that karma for other things, and realized fairly quickly after the fact that I didn't need those Foci to begin with. In fact, 6 runs in and I don't even use one of them at all any longer.

Holiday

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« Reply #11 on: <11-26-13/1742:52> »
Thanks for all the great feedback!

but your vehicle alone costs twice that.  (although I love the concept of a garbage truck)  Your magic lodge materials have a availability rating of 20, not available by standard rules. A level 4 fake SIN cost 10,000 by itself.  You said this was after one run, but unless that run consisted of giant boxes of money falling out of the sky something is fishy here

Good catch. Knew I was forgetting to mention something. The garbage truck's cost was worked out ahead of time with the GM. However the lodge materials availability is something I outright overlooked. Will need to bring that issue up and see how the GM reacts.

Quote
A mage with initiative of 9+1d6 in our games would get destroyed. You simply can't act often enough. The F4 Inc.Reflexes would bump that to 13+3d6 giving you a decent chance of getting at least 21 and going 3 times per combat turn. Three times as much casting is potent.

Was a bit unsure of this one at character gen. Decided not to go for any foci and having to sustain it while slinging other spells did not appeal to me. More familiar with AP from 4E than 3E's combat system. Seems like solid advice...after a sustaining foci. I'll do the math later mull over if karma cost for the quality after char gen will be worth the time passing up learning spells or skills.


mrcatman

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« Reply #12 on: <11-27-13/0238:43> »
Quote
A mage with initiative of 9+1d6 in our games would get destroyed. You simply can't act often enough. The F4 Inc.Reflexes would bump that to 13+3d6 giving you a decent chance of getting at least 21 and going 3 times per combat turn. Three times as much casting is potent.

Was a bit unsure of this one at character gen. Decided not to go for any foci and having to sustain it while slinging other spells did not appeal to me. More familiar with AP from 4E than 3E's combat system. Seems like solid advice...after a sustaining foci. I'll do the math later mull over if karma cost for the quality after char gen will be worth the time passing up learning spells or skills.

Without the sustain foci, you can still sustain it penalty-free right out of CharGen. Take Focused Concentration positive quality at rating 4 to sustain the Inc.Reflexes spell at Force 4 (or FocCon rating 6 for Inc.Reflexes Force 6). Then use your sustain foci for something else... physical mask, invis, armor, combat sense...

Another nice thing about this is that, while foci can be destroyed or taken away, your FocCon quality cannot. Not to mention FocCon doesn't count towards foci addiction, and spell/sustain foci only work for one category of spells (whereas FocCon can be anything).
« Last Edit: <11-27-13/1500:05> by mrcatman »

Michael Chandra

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« Reply #13 on: <11-27-13/0835:30> »
You can also use Reagents every time you cast the spell and use Force 1 Focus or Rating 1 Concentration.
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