Shadowrun

Shadowrun General => The Secret History => Topic started by: GeLrIrToCrH on <11-09-11/1450:26>

Title: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: GeLrIrToCrH on <11-09-11/1450:26>
I was looking thru Dunkie's will not too long ago and was wondering...How much of the will has been completed? Is there any official cannon? Is it worth updating?
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: FastJack on <11-09-11/1456:15>
Bobby Derie used to keep an annotated copy of the will on his Dumpshock site to list all the canon references and extrapolations from the will, but he took it down a little while back.
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: Bull on <11-09-11/1726:52>
I wish I had the time to recompile that data.  It was useful.

(and the files are still around somewhere.  A couple people have an archive posted online)

Bull
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: Zilfer on <11-09-11/1826:58>
You can try Waybackmachine.com if you know what website it was posted on Fastjack. It comes in handy sometimes but you can't always find what your looking for.
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: CanRay on <11-09-11/1940:15>
The parts that aren't in books have either been done or haven't.  :P
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: FastJack on <11-09-11/2032:44>
I wish I had the time to recompile that data.  It was useful.

(and the files are still around somewhere.  A couple people have an archive posted online)

Bull
I've got the data locally before he brought them down, but I don't want to put them out there without his permission.
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: CanRay on <11-09-11/2050:42>
Stupid bad blood.   :'(
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: Bull on <11-09-11/2109:17>
I wish I had the time to recompile that data.  It was useful.

(and the files are still around somewhere.  A couple people have an archive posted online)

Bull
I've got the data locally before he brought them down, but I don't want to put them out there without his permission.

Hence why i said recompile.  The majority of the stuff regarding the Will was all just compiling data that was available elsewhere and from talking with freelancers and others who were around that knew the background details of some of the will items. 

There was a certain amount of speculation and guesswork that he did, which I'd more than likely leave out.

Also, here:  Wayback Machine Link:  http://web.archive.org/web/20101108175546/http://ancientfiles.dumpshock.com/

Bull
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: CanRay on <11-09-11/2114:39>
What the hell are in the sixteen boxes he left for George "Locomotive" Fenamore?  And to SADLY leave them...  Bespeaks something powerful and dreadful.
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: Bull on <11-09-11/2144:47>
What the hell are in the sixteen boxes he left for George "Locomotive" Fenamore?  And to SADLY leave them...  Bespeaks something powerful and dreadful.

To George "Locomotive" Fenamore, wherever he is at present, I sadly bequeath the locked steel box number 412 from my private vault at the Manhattan Citibank Depository. The box is not to be opened until he deems it absolutely necessary, or until my comrade manages to successfully "survive" another Double Tuesday. I pray the darkness ends for you someday.

I will note that a fair number of these were in-jokes from Steve Kenson (and I believe a few others at FASA at the time...  It's slightly before I got involved with them so I can't be sure).  Quite a few others literally had no additional details...  They were simply plot hooks for GMs and future writers to run with,

Bull
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: CanRay on <11-09-11/2311:51>
No denying that.  I sure as hell used the Jiffy-Pop one to good use.

Still have the Jiffy-Pop I used as a prop, in fact.  ;D
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: beowulf_of_wa on <11-09-11/2326:24>
still kinda angry  that they used the "34,586,224,739.58 in UCAS dollars" bequest on such a crappy storyline, just sayin.
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: CanRay on <11-10-11/0841:54>
Could have been a worse storyline and he blew it all on BTL Chips and Joytoys.
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: TheWanderingJewels on <11-10-11/0854:34>
I've been using the Christmas fruit cake as the occasional running joke that runners are paid to drop off when they nic stuff
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: hobgoblin on <11-10-11/0905:19>
Stupid bad blood.   :'(
passion for the setting seems to generate that at some point or other...

Perhaps the stoics had a point...
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: TheWanderingJewels on <11-10-11/0924:03>
still kinda angry  that they used the "34,586,224,739.58 in UCAS dollars" bequest on such a crappy storyline, just sayin.

yeah. had his properties and wealth transferred elsewhere after the THOR shot. he had been getting some of his advice from the reformed Order of the Dragon in my game. His monies are going to be put to actual good use (relatively speaking)
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: Mirikon on <11-10-11/1704:05>
What storyline?
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: CanRay on <11-10-11/1721:53>
What storyline?
Art, the guy that was left that money, was found in the gutter after he had been fired by Fuchi after a life of working for them, born in the Corporate Culture of the Corporation being your Family.

He went to a party with Richard Villers in it, met the guy, who did not recognize him at all.  Art them dedicated his fortune to learning how to destroy companies while making a profit at the same time.

Art was directly responsible for NovaTech having to go Public with their shares, which then caused it to become NeoNET.  Richard proved he was the richer man by having a THOR round ready when he did find where Arty was hiding during the chaos of Crash 2.0 and blamed it on a "Glitch due to the programming damage of the Crash Worm" or some such thing when the Corporate Court came to him going, "WTF?  A THOR SHOT, really?"

And that's why you don't piss off corporations too much when they have orbital assets and a legitimate excuse they can feed the Corporate Court.  All the UN has to deal with are Nukes that may or may not go off, or disappear in mid-flight for no reason.  :P
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: Mirikon on <11-10-11/1732:05>
I love that story!
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: CanRay on <11-10-11/1737:46>
Good.  Now go the frag to sleep!

"Go The Frag To Sleep, As Read By: Gary Cline"
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: hobgoblin on <11-10-11/1806:26>
I guess thor shots being non-nuclear helps in their acceptance of any "oops".

Still, the guy was not a AAA asset or affiliated with a AAA. As such, dropping a terminal crowbar on him was unlikely to trigger any retaliation and risking the corporate cold war going hot. The very scenario that the corp court exist to avoid.

And i guess this is why runners are so important. As mercenaries they are basically disposable, meaning that taking a team out will not result in a retaliation by the corp hiring them. Hell, until they complete their mission the corporation may not have had a expense at all. As such they are the perfect proxies for avoiding a escalation of the cold war while allowing the jousting to continue.
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: CanRay on <11-10-11/1820:23>
No, but it was the equivalent of dropping a nuke somewhere without warning people.  THOR shots (The Ballistic Crowbar Cannon) are the Corporate Court's WMD of choice.

"Sorry, sorry, that was a test on some island that only had iguanas on it.  They weren't rare or anything."

Shadowrunning is important due to Deniability, "Thou Shalt Not Get Caught" is written into the Corporate Court's charter.  Or some such thing.
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: hobgoblin on <11-10-11/1840:14>
proxies, deniability, same shit. Basically as long as the higher ups can shrug about the deaths, rather then worry about the resources and assets having been lost there is little reason to consider some kind of retaliation.

I am talking about the corporation that hired the runners in the first place, mind. Basically it is a chess game with pawns for hire.

Why deploy a corporate trained and equipped rook or bishop when you can hire a couple of pawns on off the street on a results based payment structure? Loose the rook and the cost of training and equipment goes down the drain. Loose the hired pawn and your no worse for wear, expect maybe having tipped your hand about your desired outcome. Quite the cost benefit win.

And sure, there likely was some yelling about whys and assets being on high alert after the strike. But as the evidence ticked in that the strike was not part of a larger campaign, nor had hit any of the big names assets, things likely cooled down again.

The big thing to keep in mind is that unlike the nations of the cold war, the corporations are in this for the money flow. It is not about some ideology or other, it is about cornering the market.
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: CanRay on <11-10-11/1844:00>
It's all about profit.  And war is bad for profit.

"Ahem."

Oh, sorry Ares, war between THE MEGAS is bad for profit.

"That's better."
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: The Wyrm Ouroboros on <11-10-11/2102:02>
... you guys ARE aware that approval was sought from the Corporate Court before they took Dankwalther out, right?  The endgame in System Failure (p. 101) was revealed as a message from Priault -- SK's corporate court member -- to his Master, i.e. Lofwyr.

Quote from: System Failure
//Begin File Attachment//
From: Priault@zog.com
To: S-K HQ10596@saederkrupp.com
Re: Dankwalther

Master,
          Following the latest intelligence reports, subject was located at 23:06 EST.  Orbital option was unanimously approved at 23:11, after ZOG analysis estimated he'd be gone before Omega ground team could be activated.  Subject was successfully terminated at 23:16.  News interdiction was also successful: the KSAF team was delayed pending impact, as per your orders.
          Regards,
          Priault
//End//

Understand that the amount of damage Dankwalther was doing to Novatech was having a serious impact on far more than just that AAA corporation; Dankwalther had taken apart both an A-rated and an AA-rated corporation on his way to planning out how to tear Richard Villiers a new one, not to mention all the collateral damage he was doing to all of the other corporations that had a rightful claim to the Corporate Court's protection and judgement under the Business Accords.  Art Dankwalther was a serious threat to every corporation out there.  There should be no doubt that everyone was hunting for the kill-shot on the guy, no matter how much damage was done to the surrounding city blocks.
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: CanRay on <11-10-11/2105:10>
Ah, missed that part.  That's what happens when you don't own the books.   :'(

"Minimum collateral damage."
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: The Wyrm Ouroboros on <11-10-11/2115:08>
Ah, missed that part.  That's what happens when you don't own the books.   :'(

"Minimum collateral damage."

Which they didn't give two hoots about; didn't even mention it.  They located the guy, they couldn't get a Corporate Court Omega team there in time, so they used the Big Gun In The Sky™.  The only thing they made sure about was that the news team from KSAF didn't get wasted as well.

This should tell you something about how much even the referees wanted him iced.
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: Wakshaani on <11-10-11/2119:31>
Most of the will, at this point, is either completed or so old as to be a non-factor in modern Shadowrun. This isn't to say that it wasn't a vital thing! That single document launched entire *campaigns*, not just adventures, and continues to have echoes today.

You have several dead ends (The guy who gets 50,000Y a year as long as he remains chaste, for instance), some "We will never follow up on this, so enjoy yoru campaign:" stuff (The Russian Crown Jewels, for instance.), some main plot points (Art Dankwalther!), and some that might have had something going but never got a follow up, like the Cheyenne dig.

The one that always bugged me was "Where the rock meets the sky", just because it's a riddle of some kind and we'll never know what it was intended to be. That one might well be added to *my* will, to bother future generations.

At this stage, it's probably better to focus on new plots instead of old ones, but the occasional tidbit dropped for the older players is always welcome.
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: Patrick Goodman on <11-10-11/2253:51>
The one that always bugged me was "Where the rock meets the sky", just because it's a riddle of some kind and we'll never know what it was intended to be. That one might well be added to *my* will, to bother future generations.
You know, we could always just ask Kenson about it....
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: Wakshaani on <11-10-11/2300:22>
The one that always bugged me was "Where the rock meets the sky", just because it's a riddle of some kind and we'll never know what it was intended to be. That one might well be added to *my* will, to bother future generations.
You know, we could always just ask Kenson about it....

Egads! I thought he was dead. Yeah, asking him would be, uhm.

Amazing.
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: Bull on <11-11-11/0150:48>
I'll drop him a line, see what he has to say...

(And Dead?  Hehe.  No, he's just over at Green Ronin these days. :))
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: Xzylvador on <11-11-11/0341:08>
Good.  Now go the frag to sleep!

"Go The Frag To Sleep, As Read By: Gary Cline"

That a reference to the "Children's Book" (please, note the quotation marks) by Adam Mansbach? Man that book is good!
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: Mirikon on <11-11-11/0825:00>
Y'know, reading back through the will, there were a few things I'm wondering.

Quote
To Federated Boeing, the land and mineral rights to the volcanic island that will erupt 301 kilometers due west of Petrolia on October 3rd, 2060.
Did the island ever show up?

Quote
To the first party to determine what lies behind the door of room 5B78 of the Aztechnology Pyramid in Tenochtitlán and file a report of their findings on Shadowland, I leave 5 million nuyen or medical care for the remainder of their natural life, whichever seems most appropriate.
What was behind the door?

Quote
To the first party to determine what lies behind the door of room 1835 in the Renraku Arcology in Seattle and report their findings to the Draco Foundation, I leave 5 million nuyen.
I know this was mentioned in Shutdown, but did anyone ever claim it?

Quote
To the first party to discover what lies behind the door of room 429 of the Saeder-Krupp offices in Berlin and report their findings to Lofwyr, I leave the Arrow of Red Dragon Slaying.
Again, anyone ever claim it?

Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: Wakshaani on <11-11-11/0912:23>
I'll drop him a line, see what he has to say...

(And Dead?  Hehe.  No, he's just over at Green Ronin these days. :))

Bull, if you get me that answer, I will owe you *such* a big one.

Seriously. Like, huge.
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: FastJack on <11-11-11/0918:49>
Y'know, reading back through the will, there were a few things I'm wondering.

Quote
To Federated Boeing, the land and mineral rights to the volcanic island that will erupt 301 kilometers due west of Petrolia on October 3rd, 2060.
Did the island ever show up?
Yes. Year of the Comet, p. 86. Turns out that when it appeared, it was nothing special. Then when Halley's passed by orichalcum "woke up" all over the island.

Quote
To the first party to determine what lies behind the door of room 5B78 of the Aztechnology Pyramid in Tenochtitlán and file a report of their findings on Shadowland, I leave 5 million nuyen or medical care for the remainder of their natural life, whichever seems most appropriate.
What was behind the door?
I remember seeing that it was something about Blood magic, but I can't remember where I saw the tidbit.

Quote
To the first party to determine what lies behind the door of room 1835 in the Renraku Arcology in Seattle and report their findings to the Draco Foundation, I leave 5 million nuyen.
I know this was mentioned in Shutdown, but did anyone ever claim it?
This was virtual room set up by the IE Leonardo in the Arcology's Matrix that was monitoring their system for Artificial Intelligence. [Renraku Arcology Shutdown, p. 86] Should be some interesting records in there, considering the SCIRE was the birthplace of Deus and Morgan/Megaera.

Quote
To the first party to discover what lies behind the door of room 429 of the Saeder-Krupp offices in Berlin and report their findings to Lofwyr, I leave the Arrow of Red Dragon Slaying.
Again, anyone ever claim it?
Unknown.
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: Wakshaani on <11-11-11/0922:20>
Y'know, reading back through the will, there were a few things I'm wondering.

Quote
To Federated Boeing, the land and mineral rights to the volcanic island that will erupt 301 kilometers due west of Petrolia on October 3rd, 2060.
Did the island ever show up?

Yup. FB went in, checked the place out, went, "Well, that was kinda neat, but, whatevs." and bailed, leaving a tiny research team behind. When the Comet flew over, Natural O appeared on the island, but Boeing didn't find out until much later as the team was ganked by a rival corp, who set up a mining operation and WIldcatted the thing. They were eventally chased off, but not until a lot of goodies had been gathered.

After the comet left, the Natural O dried up, making the island pretty much worthless again.

(Edit, as someone else posts faster than me!)
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: Wakshaani on <11-11-11/0930:23>
Room 1835 does have a nice 'run left in it, depending on the game master. It's kind of a milk run, really, since the Arcology isn't what it used to be. A team that slips in won't have to deal with Renraku Security and an angry AI ... just a bunch of poor SINners and some homeless guys. Well, unless some leftover Deus stuff is still inside, hidden away and still doing experiments. Or if those bug rumors are true. Or if a criminal syndicate has moved in. Or ...

Well, you get the idea.

At any rate, you get in, you find the door, grab the data, then get out. Presenting it to the Draco Foundation winds up in a fun place ... do you get paid out, or do they bone you on the technicality that it's the Seattle SCIRE, not the Renraku Arcology? Then again, if the data *does* have the birth of an AI in it, it's worth far, far more than five million to the right (or wrong!) people. You could even get an AI or a bunch of Technomancers looking to buy it (or jack it) from you in a counter-offer.

Of course, it can also be corrupted or useless, someone else could have beaten you to it, it could be something else entirely (Like it became a baby AI itself and is waiting to make contact with someone to wake it up from the long nap) ... scads of neat stories can come out of it.

But I think that, in terms of official product, it's a dead end at this point.
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: Bull on <11-11-11/1306:40>
We
I'll drop him a line, see what he has to say...

(And Dead?  Hehe.  No, he's just over at Green Ronin these days. :))

Bull, if you get me that answer, I will owe you *such* a big one.

Seriously. Like, huge.

Well, I know the answer now. 

But I think I'll continue to be a tease... ;)

(Wak, you have mail :))
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: Wakshaani on <11-11-11/2050:24>
Dude, at this point, you could pull rank on my Best Man, should I ever get married.

That's how much of a solid I owe you, now.
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: DarkLloyd on <12-09-11/1425:54>
Okay you two....... GIVE!!!!!

No fair hogging all the toy yerselves.  ;)

Or at least send it to me too.  ;D
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: RelentlessImp on <12-15-11/0644:07>
Okay you two....... GIVE!!!!!

No fair hogging all the toy yerselves.  ;)

Or at least send it to me too.  ;D

This. I too desire the knowledge. The whole "Rock Meets the Sky" thing has stuck in my head ever since first reading Dunkie's Will. Please share?
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: CanRay on <12-15-11/1146:25>
OK, we got a bidding war going, who is going to be able to bribe Bull the best???
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: The_Gun_Nut on <12-15-11/1224:43>
I will give you access to my... creative ...side for Shadowrunning.

Just look at my handle, I think you'll get the idea.
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: CanRay on <12-15-11/1314:25>
Being a fellow Gun Nut, I'll double The_Gun_Nut's offer if I get the same info.  ;D
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: RelentlessImp on <12-15-11/1422:08>
Being a fellow Gun Nut, I'll double The_Gun_Nut's offer if I get the same info.  ;D

Well, I can't exactly offer my creative side in that manner because I am horrible when it comes to guns...

...but I'll offer my creative side in the ways I can use it. Want stories written? I'm your man. I can write almost anything. :D
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: CitizenJoe on <12-15-11/1549:47>
There was a 1 year after D's death stipulation on Rock meets sky.
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: Mirikon on <12-15-11/1733:20>
And we still don't know what was meant by it. So we want to know!
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: CitizenJoe on <12-15-11/1744:26>
It's the Red Rocks Amphitheater in Denver.  The 'Rock' he was referring to was Rock Music.  It's the highest musical venue in North America and also close to where Ghostwalker emerge.  Since nobody found the cache, and the instructions therein, Ghostwalker seized it as seed capital for taking over Denver.  I thought that was obvious.
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: The_Gun_Nut on <12-15-11/1857:21>
Here's a hint for other GM's out there:

If it's obvious to you, your players will never see it coming at all.  Period.

That goes for bad guys and clues they will need to solve the mystery.

If you need to drop clues to your players, use the shotgun approach.  Throw 3 or more clues to them, and they might get the hint.
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: Barracuda_Kali on <12-15-11/1858:52>
I'm pretty sure the whole text of the recipients has never been fully disclosed, and is a great source of plot hooks you can just pull out of the usual place.

Anyone else make up "undisclosed" entries to spring on players?
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: Mirikon on <12-15-11/1901:03>
No, Joe, obvious is a dragon coming out of an astral rift. An amphitheater many people may never have heard of before is not obvious.

In general, don't assume something is obvious to all, most, or even many people, unless it is the 'anvil to the forehead' kind of obvious.
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: CitizenJoe on <12-15-11/1905:23>
Red Rock amphitheater is where U2 did Live from Red Rock, Under a Blood Red Sky, the biggest selling concert format album of all time.  It was also called Garden of Angels and Garden of Titans before being named Red Rock.  It had been a music mecca for over a hundred years. 
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: Mirikon on <12-15-11/1919:06>
And I'd never heard of it until you posted the name.
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: CitizenJoe on <12-15-11/1959:30>
Philistines!

D was a BIG fan of music, including the older stuff, as witnessed by some of his other bequeaths.  The clue was placed there for someone with similar tastes.
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: CanRay on <12-15-11/2001:04>
He also loved comics.  Not so much Manga, however.
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: Mirikon on <12-15-11/2010:28>
Philistines!

D was a BIG fan of music, including the older stuff, as witnessed by some of his other bequeaths.  The clue was placed there for someone with similar tastes.

And again, unless you are someone with similar tastes, who also happens to know of a particular venue in a particular city, that 'clue' is going to be about as clear as reading Saeder-Krupp's quarterly stockholder report.

You know why they call something an 'inside joke'? Because if you're not one of the 'insiders' it doesn't make a damn bit of sense to you. Same thing goes with clues.
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: CitizenJoe on <12-15-11/2036:52>
I'm fairly certain that more people know about Red Rock than know about Shadowrun.  It kicked off U2 as a concert band and Under a Blood Red Sky went triple platinum in the US and England, platinum in other countries. That album sold more than 5 million copies. I'm not saying that Shadowrun Characters should know about it, although I'll bet you'd find D had some pull there through his entertainment company.  What I am saying is that it isn't some mysterious place I pulled out of my posterior.  I'm also saying that when PotD came out, in 1996, the writers had grown up in a musical era colored by U2.
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: Wakshaani on <12-15-11/2210:23>
Never heard of Red Rock myself.

Then again, I'm outside of Nashville, so, when you talk Mecca of Music, well, you talk about the Ryman. :D
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: The Wyrm Ouroboros on <12-15-11/2221:01>
It's the Red Rocks Amphitheater in Denver.  The 'Rock' he was referring to was Rock Music.  It's the highest musical venue in North America and also close to where Ghostwalker emerge.  Since nobody found the cache, and the instructions therein, Ghostwalker seized it as seed capital for taking over Denver.  I thought that was obvious.

... and you know all this as being canon ... how?  Please, share.
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: Critias on <12-15-11/2329:09>
Here's a hint for other GM's out there:

If it's obvious to you, your players will never see it coming at all.  Period.

That goes for bad guys and clues they will need to solve the mystery.

If you need to drop clues to your players, use the shotgun approach.  Throw 3 or more clues to them, and they might get the hint.
It's also worth pointing out that the inverse is also true.  Players may doggedly refuse to pick up on the clues a GM means to leave for them, but players will, in the same vein, still absolutely blindside their GM from time to time with a brilliant solution to a problem that the GM never saw coming.

Oh, life.  You zany, unpredictable, scamp.
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: Argent on <12-16-11/0108:15>

It's also worth pointing out that the inverse is also true.  Players may doggedly refuse to pick up on the clues a GM means to leave for them, but players will, in the same vein, still absolutely blindside their GM from time to time with a brilliant solution to a problem that the GM never saw coming.

Oh, life.  You zany, unpredictable, scamp.

To me that's just part of what makes Shadowrun so darn fun.
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: Mirikon on <12-16-11/0721:31>
I'm fairly certain that more people know about Red Rock than know about Shadowrun.  It kicked off U2 as a concert band and Under a Blood Red Sky went triple platinum in the US and England, platinum in other countries. That album sold more than 5 million copies. I'm not saying that Shadowrun Characters should know about it, although I'll bet you'd find D had some pull there through his entertainment company.  What I am saying is that it isn't some mysterious place I pulled out of my posterior.  I'm also saying that when PotD came out, in 1996, the writers had grown up in a musical era colored by U2.

More old people know about Red Rock than Shadowrun, certainly. But when I was growing up, you know where the big name bands played? Stadiums. The same ones they put football teams in on Sundays. Oh, and the Hard Rock Cafe. With the advent of internet radio, I honestly don't need to pay attention to where anyone plays any more.
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: CanRay on <12-16-11/1043:05>
I try to pay attention when people play here.  I like supporting artists and local venues when I'm able to.
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: Simagal on <12-16-11/1437:00>
Red Rock is mentioned in Attitude, in the Centaur music section.
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: DarkLloyd on <12-17-11/1325:50>
I'm fairly certain that more people know about Red Rock than know about Shadowrun.  It kicked off U2 as a concert band and Under a Blood Red Sky went triple platinum in the US and England, platinum in other countries. That album sold more than 5 million copies. I'm not saying that Shadowrun Characters should know about it, although I'll bet you'd find D had some pull there through his entertainment company.  What I am saying is that it isn't some mysterious place I pulled out of my posterior.  I'm also saying that when PotD came out, in 1996, the writers had grown up in a musical era colored by U2.
Uhm, I have no idea where this red rock is and I barely know U2. I dont listen to them as they dont play my style of music. the most i know of them is that that bono guy is with them, i i dont really like him so much.

So, no, not everyone knows them and it can't just be accepted that they do.
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: Patrick Goodman on <12-17-11/1338:40>
On a related, but separate, note: I had a huge, "Live Aid" scale, Dunkelzahn tribute concert occur in my game in early '58. Mercurial was there, Concrete Dreams was there. Shield Wall didn't re-form, but several members were there and wound up playing on stage together for the first time in a while. Have to figure out a way to make some of that canon somehow....
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: FastJack on <12-17-11/1340:14>
On a related, but separate, note: I had a huge, "Live Aid" scale, Dunkelzahn tribute concert occur in my game in early '58. Mercurial was there, Concrete Dreams was there. Shield Wall didn't re-form, but several members were there and wound up playing on stage together for the first time in a while. Have to figure out a way to make some of that canon somehow....
I think you just made it fan-canon, at least. ;)
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: CanRay on <12-17-11/1343:53>
On a related, but separate, note: I had a huge, "Live Aid" scale, Dunkelzahn tribute concert occur in my game in early '58. Mercurial was there, Concrete Dreams was there. Shield Wall didn't re-form, but several members were there and wound up playing on stage together for the first time in a while. Have to figure out a way to make some of that canon somehow....
I think you just made it fan-canon, at least. ;)
Flashback scene in one of the fiction pieces in a book to make it real canon?
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: Patrick Goodman on <12-17-11/1345:00>
I think you just made it fan-canon, at least. ;)
I have bigger ambitions than that. :)

That said, anything I can do to steer a thread back on topic....
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: Patrick Goodman on <12-17-11/1345:32>
Flashback scene in one of the fiction pieces in a book to make it real canon?
Hmmmm. This could be doable....
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: CanRay on <12-17-11/1351:04>
Who has used Dunkie-Pop Popcorn in their Campaigns???
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: The Wyrm Ouroboros on <12-17-11/1353:31>
Who has used Dunkie-Pop Popcorn in their Campaigns???
Who hasn't?

On a related note, about six weeks ago I saw Jiffy Pop (or whatever) in the store, and actually bought a couple of the tins ... anything to keep it going until the Big D can drop by.
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: CanRay on <12-17-11/1357:18>
I still have mine from when I used it as a prop for the first game I ever ran.

The group couldn't believe what they were hired to steal.
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: CitizenJoe on <12-17-11/1820:19>
On a related, but separate, note: I had a huge, "Live Aid" scale, Dunkelzahn tribute concert occur in my game in early '58. Mercurial was there, Concrete Dreams was there. Shield Wall didn't re-form, but several members were there and wound up playing on stage together for the first time in a while. Have to figure out a way to make some of that canon somehow....
If this occurred at Red Rocks, then there's a good chance that it was funded with at least part of the treasure horde found there.
Quote from: Dunkelzahn's Will, as posted on Shadowland
ATTENTION! To any and all persons capable of discovering "where a Rock meets the Sky," the 2 million nuyen, amulets and weapons at that place are yours for the keeping provided that you accomplish the task described in the enclosed datachips within 1 year of my demise. The anime will accompany you to make sure the job is done properly. Because this endeavor is of special personal interest to me, I have taken numerous precautions to assure its completion.
The task may have been the reformation of Shield Wall, or maybe just a farewell performance by Mercurial.
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: Patrick Goodman on <12-17-11/1919:41>
Not at Red Rocks. At RFK Stadium, or its successor, in DeeCee. There were many dragons in attendance before it was all over. Very impressive sight on the rim of the stadium like that.

There is nothing definitive about "Rock Meets the Sky" having anything to do with Red Rock, especially in canon. Interesting theory, but there's nothing canonical supporting it.
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: Wakshaani on <12-17-11/1939:47>
My personal theory was Ayers Rock, in Australia.

The one I heard a few locals talk about was Stone Mountain, Georgia.

Both of these locations are, in canon, quite magically active.
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: Mirikon on <12-17-11/1942:29>
The problem with it being Stone Mountain is that the CAS built their presidential mansion on top of it.

Ayers Rock is a good choice, though.
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: CanRay on <12-17-11/1942:52>
If it was where the sky meets the drekhole, I'd know where it was in an instant.  But it's not. (http://youtu.be/A5gqj2nV_JM)
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: RelentlessImp on <12-17-11/2033:54>
My theory was always one of those places out in the desert where the combination of mesas and crystal clear lakes created a perfect mirror image, the kind that just looking at it makes you think if you step into the lake you'll fall through the sky and into another world. Sorta like this (http://poncy-mclean.net/art-photography/files/2010/10/image1-590x348.jpg) but with less green around.
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: Wakshaani on <12-17-11/2058:23>
The problem with it being Stone Mountain is that the CAS built their presidential mansion on top of it.

Which drives me crazy. Clearly, someone had never looked at the place before writing that... a building on top of that thing is wide open for people to shoot at it for miles around! It's just asking for trouble.
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: CanRay on <12-17-11/2103:31>
The problem with it being Stone Mountain is that the CAS built their presidential mansion on top of it.
Which drives me crazy. Clearly, someone had never looked at the place before writing that... a building on top of that thing is wide open for people to shoot at it for miles around! It's just asking for trouble.
It also allows the folks to fire back.  Makes sense when you're talking about the CAS.  :P
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: Mirikon on <12-17-11/2116:26>
The problem with it being Stone Mountain is that the CAS built their presidential mansion on top of it.

Which drives me crazy. Clearly, someone had never looked at the place before writing that... a building on top of that thing is wide open for people to shoot at it for miles around! It's just asking for trouble.

As a Southerner, I can tell you that it makes perfect sense. Beyond the 'we can also fire back' aspect, you have to understand that symbols are very important in the South. Building the mansion on top of Stone Mountain says, "We dare you to try." Which is a very Southern mindset.
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: Wakshaani on <12-17-11/2142:10>
I used to live near it, and have left the South for all of one week of my life.

I know the mindset well. :)
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: CitizenJoe on <12-17-11/2225:56>
Where ever it is, there is an anime waiting there (presumably) because it is tasked with making sure you follow the instructions on the datachips.  Anime in this context is talking about a metahuman form free spirit, not a cartoon.  That means a) there needs to be sufficient mana to sustain the free spirit (i.e. not an asteroid) and b) the area should be hospitable to man (i.e the spirit would want to associate with man and thus be in an area with people around).  Next figure out D's territory.  D has multiple precautions in place to make sure that the mission on the datachips is done.  That means he needed to have oversight of the whole thing.  So it is a strong likelihood that the location is within his territory.  Places in his territory are Lake Louise in Algonkian-Manitou then moved to Prince Edward Island in UCAS (North east).  He's also got an island near Seattle.  And here's a little bit of trivia often overlooked.  He awakened at Cherry Creek Lake in Denver... 21 miles east of Red Rocks Amphitheater.  He's got a lair in the Caucasus mountains (but I think that's just a nod to Earthdawn).  He's also got access to anyplace Gavilan Ventures has, which is to say any place Ares is.  While the Ares route gets him more locations, those locations are like 70% out of D's control, so not likely for this application.

My conclusion is that Where a Rock meets the Sky is someplace in North America, likely in the UCAS controlled areas.

Side note discovery while researching this.  If you pull out a map of the indian territories and take a look up in the north east section of the Salish Shidhe Council where it meets up with the AMC.  There's a sort of scooped out arc there that doesn't seem to follow any terrain or man made rationale.  As it turns out, that's a 100 mile radius from Lake Louise.  NAN picked out their borders well after Dunkelzahn picked his lair at Lake Louise.  Notice the weird notch out of Sioux territory too.  That's a 200 mile radius (roughly).  It looks like, when NAN broke into various independent nations, somebody didn't want to deal with dragons.
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: CanRay on <12-17-11/2255:13>
As a Southerner, I can tell you that it makes perfect sense. Beyond the 'we can also fire back' aspect, you have to understand that symbols are very important in the South. Building the mansion on top of Stone Mountain says, "We dare you to try." Which is a very Southern mindset.
Not just Southerners.
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: hobgoblin on <12-18-11/0548:06>
My theory was always one of those places out in the desert where the combination of mesas and crystal clear lakes created a perfect mirror image, the kind that just looking at it makes you think if you step into the lake you'll fall through the sky and into another world. Sorta like this (http://poncy-mclean.net/art-photography/files/2010/10/image1-590x348.jpg) but with less green around.
The Taj Mahal may originally have featured a park that produced such an effect.
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: The_Gun_Nut on <12-18-11/2041:55>
As a Southerner, I can tell you that it makes perfect sense. Beyond the 'we can also fire back' aspect, you have to understand that symbols are very important in the South. Building the mansion on top of Stone Mountain says, "We dare you to try." Which is a very Southern mindset.
Not just Southerners.
True, but we've sorta... distilled it down to it's essence.

Then drank it.

We're bad about that.
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: RelentlessImp on <12-18-11/2044:50>
As a Southerner, I can tell you that it makes perfect sense. Beyond the 'we can also fire back' aspect, you have to understand that symbols are very important in the South. Building the mansion on top of Stone Mountain says, "We dare you to try." Which is a very Southern mindset.
Not just Southerners.
True, but we've sorta... distilled it down to it's essence.

Then drank it.

We're bad about that.

It's true. Have you been to the Jack Daniels distillery in Lynchburg, TN? It's on the top of a big damn hill. So that's where it's literally distilled and drank. :D
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: Wakshaani on <12-18-11/2050:32>
True, but we've sorta... distilled it down to it's essence.

Then drank it.

We're bad about that.

Y'know, that sounds more Texan than Southern.

*peer*

WHO ARE YOU REALLY?!
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: Patrick Goodman on <12-18-11/2115:29>
He's not me. I don't drink. :)
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: Mirikon on <12-19-11/0050:01>
True, but we've sorta... distilled it down to it's essence.

Then drank it.

We're bad about that.

Y'know, that sounds more Texan than Southern.

*peer*

WHO ARE YOU REALLY?!

Where do you think the Texans learned it from?
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: CanRay on <12-19-11/0159:39>
As a Southerner, I can tell you that it makes perfect sense. Beyond the 'we can also fire back' aspect, you have to understand that symbols are very important in the South. Building the mansion on top of Stone Mountain says, "We dare you to try." Which is a very Southern mindset.
Not just Southerners.
True, but we've sorta... distilled it down to it's essence.

Then drank it.

We're bad about that.
Just a suggestion.  Don't go wandering around in the rural parts of  Ontario or BC.  And I'm pretty sure the rest of the provinces as well.  Newfoundland, you're probably safer, as it's out in the open and sold in stores as "Screech".
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: Wakshaani on <12-19-11/0221:01>
Y'know, that sounds more Texan than Southern.

*peer*

WHO ARE YOU REALLY?!

Where do you think the Texans learned it from?

Well true... Texas is the Tennessee Farm Team. We sent 'em guys like Houston and Austin and Bowie, along with good music and barbeque. What happened after that, we don't take any responsibility for. :)
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: Crimsondude on <12-22-11/0528:35>
On a related, but separate, note: I had a huge, "Live Aid" scale, Dunkelzahn tribute concert occur in my game in early '58. Mercurial was there, Concrete Dreams was there. Shield Wall didn't re-form, but several members were there and wound up playing on stage together for the first time in a while. Have to figure out a way to make some of that canon somehow....
I seem to recall that there was something canon similar to this.

There was also the funeral at Lake Louise, which was the social event of the decade.
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: Patrick Goodman on <12-22-11/0905:25>
I need to re-read that book one of these days, in my copious unstructured free time....
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: CitizenJoe on <12-22-11/1027:54>
I wanted to point out (specifically to Fizzy) that Lake Louise is canonically in Algonkian-Manitou Council.  More than one person has overlaid a map onto google maps and placed it solidly inside the borders of the Athabaskan Council.
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: Crimsondude on <12-22-11/1327:45>
It's always been in Athabaskan Council.
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: CitizenJoe on <12-22-11/1911:08>
Here's a portion of the AMC from Shadows of North America.  Lake Louise is close to the border, but specifically in the AMC.
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: The Wyrm Ouroboros on <12-22-11/1921:25>
... I hear nobody arguing with you.
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: CitizenJoe on <12-22-11/1928:34>
James just did... unless that was sarcasm...
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: Lysanderz on <08-05-13/1531:21>
THREAD NECROMANCY!!!!

With what limited research I was able to do, I found the following items of the will still up for grabs (or at least of note due to items mentioned having a habit of slipping in and out of ownership)

Will Left Overs:

•   First Key of Power: To be given over to either Tir Tairngire or Tir na nOg, whichever nation first publicly discloses the complete personal histories of all of its high government officials. This disclosure must be supervised by the Draco Foundation in accordance with my instructions. Speratemel rel timaan perest? Hellon Sperethiel.
•   To Aden, I leave the Shroud of Shadows. May its shade cool the heat of your desert home as well as the tempers that flare around it.
•   To the first party that develops a species of plant hardy enough to flourish in and eventually clean the smog-choked atmosphere of such cities as Tenochtitlan, I leave 20 Million Nuyen
•   I leave 100,000 Nuyen for each of the following people to be rescued from the Chicago Containment Zone: James Delany, Dr. Edward Oden, Gregory Armtwister, Protacio Corcoran, Jatherine Sitsu, and Sissel McCarthy.
•   To the party who finds the bones of the Dragon Skeleton for which I possess the head, I offer two options. You may keep the bones or turn them over to the Draco Foundation for a reward. All discoveries must be independently verified as Dragon bones, such identification to be made by any living dragon. The Draco Foundation will assemble all pieces of the skeleton it receives and display the results in the Smithsonian Institution for the edification of the general public. My admittedly incomplete research indicates the following coordinates as the likely locations for the Dragon bones: Lat 41, Long 121; Lat 41 50n, Long 87-45w; Lat 47-21n, Long 122-12w; Lat 19-24n, Long 99-9w; Lat 65, Long 130; Lat 39-44n, Long 104-59w
•   ATTENTION! To any and all persons capable of discovering “where a Rock meets the Sky,”, the 2 million nuyen, amulets, and weapons at that place are yours for the keeping provided that you accomplish the task described in the enclosed datachips within 1 year of discovery. The anime will accompany you to make sure the job is done properly. Because this endeavor is of special personal interest to me, I have taken numerous precautions to assure its completion.
•   To any person who possesses a ticket stub to Maria Mercurials only foray into country music, performed at My Brother’s Place in the Nashville sprawl: present yourself to the Draco Foundation at any time and the Foundation will grant you one wish. I believe the saying is, be careful what you wish for – you may well get it.
•   To George “Locomotive” Fenamore, wherever he is at present, I sadly bequeath the locked steel box 412 from my private vault at the Manhattan Citibank Depository. The box is not to be opened until he deems it absolutely necessary, or until my comrade manages to successfully “survive” another Double Tuesday. I pray the darkness ends for you someday.
•   To the executor of my will, Nadja Daviar, I grant full disposition of the other fifteen boxes marked for George Fenamore or his descendants should any of them ever ask. If not, upon your own demise, they are to be summarily destroyed UNOPENED in the main microwave big blast furnace of Bethlehem Stte, Pa.
•   To the first party to develop a self-motivational robotic unit that meets the specifications laid out by the Draco Foundation, I leave 10 Million nuyen for continued research
•   To further encourage an end to the use of blood magic by Aztechnology and other parties, I offer a bounty of 1 million nuyen on any blood mages captured alive and delivered to the Dunkelzahn Institute of Magical Research for the purposes of studying the effects of blood magic use on metahumanity. I further authorize the Draco Foundation to provide suitable rewards for the receipt of verifiable accounts of blood magic use, the rewards to reflect the usefulness of the information provided.
•   In order to discourage the proliferation of toxic shamans, I offer a bounty of 1 million nuyen on any toxic shamans captured alive and delivered to the Dunkelzahn Institute of Magical Research for the purposes of studying the effects of toxicity on the physical and astral presence of such shamans, and how they in turn impact the physical and astral world.
•   To the first party to create a perpetual motion machine without the aid of magic, I leave the heretofore undiscovered notebooks of Leonardo da Vinci.
•   To the first ghoul community to be legally recognized by the United Nations, I leave 2 million nuyen, to further understanding and tolerance of ghouls as a race and allow them to live in peace with other metahumans.
•   To Jill Taylor, I leave the Tradeus Manual- if you can find it. Start in Canal Park
•   To the first party to determine what lies behind the door of room 5B78 of the Aztechnology Pyramid in Tenochtitlán and file a report of their findings on Shadowland, I leave 5 million nuyen or medical care for the remainder of their natural life, whichever seems most appropriate.
•   To Lung, I leave the Second Coin of Luck in hopes that he might benefit from the long view as I have. (These coins have been floating in and out of circulation pretty much indefinitely.)
•   To the first party to determine what the accompanying photos of Mars (1 2 3), taken by NASA just prior to the Ares Macrotechnology buyout, represent and who can prove their theory to the Draco Foundation, I leave 1 percent interest in Ares.
•   To the first party to successfully explain the existence, abilities and origin of the children of the Matrix, known as the otaku, I leave 5 million nuyen for continued research into the relationship between mind and machine.
•   To the first party to create a cure for any of the current strains of flu, especially the rare and deadly Dragon flu, I leave half my stock in the Fort Howard Bristol-Meyers Squibb Corporation.
•   To the first party to successfully invent an artificial mechanism capable of producing and sustaining a magical effect with no assistance from a living magician or spirit, I leave 8 million nuyen for additional research into the fusion of magic and technology.
•   To Sharon Chiang-Wu, I leave the Third Coin of Luck.
•   To the first party to fully explain the basis for magical ability in homosapiens and provide documented research of their discoveries, I leave 10 million nuyen, to further the world’s understanding and advancement of humanity’s magical capabilities in general.
•   To the first party to spend 24 hours in Glamis Castle during a full moon, I leave the castle, its furnishings and the grounds historically associated with it. "Good things of day begin to droop and drowse/while night’s black agents to their preys do rouse."
•   To the first party to capture and successfully breed Ecuadorean honey ants, I leave 8 million nuyen for the expansion of the breeding program.
•   To the bearer of SIN 5T2G-8U6V-PK02: present yourself to the Draco Foundation on any Wednesday between 10:00 and 10:15 a.m., and the Foundation will grant you one wish. This offer stands good for one year from the day of my death. I believe the saying is, be careful what you wish for—you may well get it.
•   To the first party to find my lair in the Caucasus Mountains, I leave its contents, including clues to the location of two other lairs. In the third lair, you will find a plain brown scroll case. Return the case to the Draco Foundation unopened, and you will receive my lucky preces foot. May it bring you all the good fortune it brought me.
•   To the elusive TX, whom I know exists, I leave 10 million nuyen on the condition that she come in from the shadows and report to the UCAS government for testing and training. I give her full assurances that she will not be harmed. I further authorize my executor to grant this same sum to any person or group of people who find TX and bring her, alive and undamaged, to any UCAS military installation. I authorize an additional 10 million nuyen for the hiring of qualified individuals to escort her safely home and, if necessary, to avenge any mistreatment of her with extreme prejudice.
•   To the first company to create edible synthetic flesh for ghouls, I leave 2 million nuyen with which to develop a complete and diverse product line.
•   To the first party to develop a magic item that can be used by a mundane, I leave the medium-sized chunk of orichalcum I keep in my sock drawer at Lake Louise.
•   To the first party to revitalize any three species of flora or fauna currently near extinction and successfully return them to their native environment, or successfully adapt those species to a new environment, I leave 30 million nuyen and funds for further research to be provided by the Draco Foundation.
•   To the first party who successfully cultivates the Brazilian kiwi outside its native environment, I leave 10 million nuyen and funds for further research to be provided by the Draco Foundation.
•   To the first party to successfully grow cactus on the ocean floor and produce an acre of wheat in low orbit, I leave 20 million nuyen.
•   To the owner of the sky-blue Chrysler-Nissan Jackrabbit that was crushed by a falling chunk of plascrete on October 26, 2045, I leave my 1964-1/2 candy-apple red Ford Mustang convertible. Sorry for the inconvenience—I had an itch that I couldn’t reach and caught the corner of the building with my claw. (Included because it is HILARIOUS)
•   To the first party to track down the Russian crown jewels, I leave that treasure except for the scepter and crown, which the Draco Foundation will return to the descendants of its original owners. According to my research, the jewels were smuggled from the country inside a spinet piano, one of nine belonging to the royal palace. The jewels were not in the four spinets that I have acquired. There are three more that I have been unable to track down, and two currently in the possession of private collectors.
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: Eremis77 on <08-08-13/1324:43>
I found this link when searching for information on the will a couple of weeks ago - is this information canon, or just someone's personal campaign notes?

http://www.obsidianportal.com/campaign/bug-city-express/wikis/dunkelzahn%E2%80%99s-will
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: FastJack on <08-08-13/1539:00>
I found this link when searching for information on the will a couple of weeks ago - is this information canon, or just someone's personal campaign notes?

http://www.obsidianportal.com/campaign/bug-city-express/wikis/dunkelzahn%E2%80%99s-will
I haven't gone into depth on it. Did you see certain parts that were different than the published will?
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: Crimsondude on <08-09-13/0140:52>
The annotations look like those from you-know-who.

•   First Key of Power: To be given over to either Tir Tairngire or Tir na nOg, whichever nation first publicly discloses the complete personal histories of all of its high government officials. This disclosure must be supervised by the Draco Foundation in accordance with my instructions. Speratemel rel timaan perest? Hellon Sperethiel.

May not be under DF control. (The Clutch of Dragons)

Quote
•   To Aden, I leave the Shroud of Shadows. May its shade cool the heat of your desert home as well as the tempers that flare around it.

Aden was eventually manipulated into taking proper possession of it. (Artifacts Unbound)

Quote
•   To further encourage an end to the use of blood magic by Aztechnology and other parties, I offer a bounty of 1 million nuyen on any blood mages captured alive and delivered to the Dunkelzahn Institute of Magical Research for the purposes of studying the effects of blood magic use on metahumanity. I further authorize the Draco Foundation to provide suitable rewards for the receipt of verifiable accounts of blood magic use, the rewards to reflect the usefulness of the information provided.
•   In order to discourage the proliferation of toxic shamans, I offer a bounty of 1 million nuyen on any toxic shamans captured alive and delivered to the Dunkelzahn Institute of Magical Research for the purposes of studying the effects of toxicity on the physical and astral presence of such shamans, and how they in turn impact the physical and astral world.

The DF maintains a list of specifically-named individuals and bounties. (Hazard Pay)

Quote
•   To the first ghoul community to be legally recognized by the United Nations, I leave 2 million nuyen, to further understanding and tolerance of ghouls as a race and allow them to live in peace with other metahumans.

Asamando came close, but missed it by ... that much. (Storm Front)


Quote
•   To Lung, I leave the Second Coin of Luck in hopes that he might benefit from the long view as I have. (These coins have been floating in and out of circulation pretty much indefinitely.)

Several of the Coins of Luck were amassed by Lung in POAD: DS. The First Coin of Luck was the target of an adventure in Corporate Intrigue. The fate of that was left in part to the decision of the players following the conclusion. The result has not been announced.

Quote
•   To the first party to determine what the accompanying photos of Mars (1 2 3), taken by NASA just prior to the Ares Macrotechnology buyout, represent and who can prove their theory to the Draco Foundation, I leave 1 percent interest in Ares.

They're fakes. (Missions)

Quote
•   To Sharon Chiang-Wu, I leave the Third Coin of Luck.

See above. (Corporate Intrigue)


The rest haven't been, and probably will never be answered.
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: The Wyrm Ouroboros on <08-09-13/0236:58>
I found this link when searching for information on the will a couple of weeks ago - is this information canon, or just someone's personal campaign notes?

http://www.obsidianportal.com/campaign/bug-city-express/wikis/dunkelzahn%E2%80%99s-will

Probably a combination of campaign notes and explanatory stuff for his players.  For example, the condoplex stuff (including about the mage who supposedly built it) sounds campaign-exclusive, I certainly have never heard of that information.  To boot, there are other parts that seem to me to be fairly obvious why something should be there.  (The question mark in 'Speratemel rel timaan perest?' turns it from a declarative 'Communication is for all to have.' into a rhetorical 'Isn't communication for all to have?')  Otherwise, and overall, it's a good source to explain a lot of what the characters should know but the players may not.

On the other hand ...
Quote
To James Meiers, I leave a small token of my esteem, to be distributed by the Draco Foundation. Meiers was a combat decker who went by the handle Inflict. He received, among other things, a share of Renraku stock.
James!  You never told us!!
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: Crimsondude on <08-09-13/0356:57>
Yes I have. Many, many times in fact.

Though I do especial ole being called a combat decker. :)
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: Red Canti on <08-09-13/0548:44>
The Will is the best thing to come out of Dunkelzahn's Death, I swear. It's a great look into the mind of UCAS' first Dragon President and a hilarious monsoon of plothooks.
Eight Million Nuyen for breeding Honey Ants. I'm trying to figure out if that's nuts or fucking genius.

It's also interesting how you can count on one hand the number of things he actually gives, as opposed to offering up the chance to earn.
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: Mirikon on <08-09-13/1331:03>
It also was directly responsible for destroying one of the Big 10.
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: The Wyrm Ouroboros on <08-10-13/2056:07>
"James Meiers is an old fart from West Nowhere who resents being called a combat decker, and really doesn't deserve any such label ..."  ;)

I apparently misremember.  Which isn't infrequent in my case.  :P
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: gyrobot on <08-17-13/0045:17>
So how potent is the Draco Foundation's wish, barring immortality. It seems you can have anything you want, does it include personal access to the Thor Shots?
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: Crimsondude on <08-17-13/0100:00>
Given its Chair ... I'd say so.


Just remember. Be careful what you wish for. You just may get it.
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: Mirikon on <08-17-13/0744:18>
Indeed. Wish for too much, and you might find yourself opposed by people who have a lot of 'wishes' on their side, and don't aim to let others in at the table. Though actually, a kind of immortality would be within reach, if you include a Formula Spirit Pact...
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: gyrobot on <08-18-13/2245:44>
Indeed. Wish for too much, and you might find yourself opposed by people who have a lot of 'wishes' on their side, and don't aim to let others in at the table. Though actually, a kind of immortality would be within reach, if you include a Formula Spirit Pact...

That would make a nice run idea, find the guy who is the Sinner with the code and learn that he has has the intention of acquiring the hammer of god a race is on to get him to the foundation so he can receive the satellite and equip himself with a dead man's switch that if he dies the Thor Shots will be gone for good. Leaving a huge financial hole in the Corp's wallet and without a powerful weapon. Of course he hands one to you as a gift, unnoticeable (easily concealed) and usable from any location.
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: Mirikon on <08-19-13/1952:02>
No, that's a good way for a bunch of runners to go the way of Artie-boy. If a runner team ever gets their hands on a Thor shot, they will be taken out, period.
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: gyrobot on <08-20-13/1234:09>
No, that's a good way for a bunch of runners to go the way of Artie-boy. If a runner team ever gets their hands on a Thor shot, they will be taken out, period.

True, but the thing it is the guy running the satellite system from his own place now my idea was. All it means is you got a one time high Connection/Loyalty contact for the sake of saving you from certain death with no strings attached, Once. Unless the run is an extreme high stakes one, the Thor Shot is better off sold to the highest bidder than be wasted on a ganger you have a grudge with.
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: Mirikon on <08-20-13/1523:00>
No, sorry. The megas will never hand over Thor to a single person. They just won't. And I don't care if the run is to assassinate all the dragons put together, calling in weapons of mass destruction is a sure-fire way to get yourself very, very dead. You know how stealth-killing every guard you see is a good way to get a corp reprisal team after you? Now picture what happens when you nuke a city.
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: Red Canti on <08-20-13/1536:12>
No, that's a good way for a bunch of runners to go the way of Artie-boy. If a runner team ever gets their hands on a Thor shot, they will be taken out, period.
They'll live forever. Immortalized if not in history than certainly in geography.
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: The Wyrm Ouroboros on <08-20-13/1926:35>
Geology has a surprisingly short memory ... in geologic time, anyhow.
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: gyrobot on <08-21-13/0117:44>
No, sorry. The megas will never hand over Thor to a single person. They just won't. And I don't care if the run is to assassinate all the dragons put together, calling in weapons of mass destruction is a sure-fire way to get yourself very, very dead. You know how stealth-killing every guard you see is a good way to get a corp reprisal team after you? Now picture what happens when you nuke a city.

As I say, you can also pawn it off to a Mega for cash and their loyalty for having a bargaining chip since it is an overkill weapon and effectively a DEM in a run. Remember the foundation offers one wish and I think total control of the Thor Shot system isn't something beyond them.
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: Valashar on <08-21-13/0232:00>
The entries referencing wishes also include the traditional warning of 'beware what you wish for, as you just might get it'. Those entries in the will talk about getting a wish granted, they say nothing about helping you survive the consequences.
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: All4BigGuns on <08-21-13/0238:53>
So how potent is the Draco Foundation's wish, barring immortality. It seems you can have anything you want, does it include personal access to the Thor Shots?

Maybe.

"Oh, you want a Thor Shot? Go on home and it will be delivered." *a few hours later after the character is home* "Fire." *character's neighborhood now vaporized*
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: Mirikon on <08-21-13/0805:29>
No, sorry. The megas will never hand over Thor to a single person. They just won't. And I don't care if the run is to assassinate all the dragons put together, calling in weapons of mass destruction is a sure-fire way to get yourself very, very dead. You know how stealth-killing every guard you see is a good way to get a corp reprisal team after you? Now picture what happens when you nuke a city.

As I say, you can also pawn it off to a Mega for cash and their loyalty for having a bargaining chip since it is an overkill weapon and effectively a DEM in a run. Remember the foundation offers one wish and I think total control of the Thor Shot system isn't something beyond them.
No, it very much is beyond the Draco Foundation's abilities to get hold of a Thor shot. Orbital weapons are controlled directly by the Corporate Court. At best, the DF can ask the Court to hand them over. But they won't, because they know the Court would simply say "Hell no!" and set about trying to tear down the DF for even considering such a thing. The very possibility that command and control of orbital weapons was compromised caused the whole system to be shut down until the protocols could be replaced and security upgraded.
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: Sendaz on <08-21-13/0818:53>
However, the Draco Foundation may know a few dragons willing to fly with a big rock really really high to drop on a target. ;)
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: Red Canti on <08-21-13/0959:15>
So how potent is the Draco Foundation's wish, barring immortality. It seems you can have anything you want, does it include personal access to the Thor Shots?

Maybe.

"Oh, you want a Thor Shot? Go on home and it will be delivered." *a few hours later after the character is home* "Fire." *character's neighborhood now vaporized*
That would be grimderp, even for Shadowrun.
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: Crimsondude on <08-21-13/1154:27>
I cannot accept the idea that all Thor shots are under CC control, and there was almost certainly a time when that was not the case.

I'm sure that in the maneuvering that eventually led to Vogel running AresSpace, which was the crown jewel before Knight came onboard and focused on Knight Errant, allowed Daviar (or the DF under their stewardship of her seat/assets) to possibly take direct control of even one.
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: Mirikon on <08-21-13/1402:02>
Maybe. But the fact remains that launching Thor without the approval of the Corporate Court or a national military is going to result in annihilation of the group responsible. You'd have a bounty on your head so large it makes the bounties on blood mages and toxic shamans look like loose change you found under the couch cushions.

And no, Sendaz, the dragons are not friendly with the Draco Foundation. They but heads quite a bit, over the things in Dunkelzahn's will, Drakes, artifacts, and so on.
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: Crimsondude on <08-21-13/1414:11>
There's no strategic need to use one most of the time. But that's also just politics.
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: Tzeentch on <08-21-13/2002:24>
The traditional conception of Thor shots ("rods from god") was more akin to precision artillery or PGM strikes. The Shadowrun version has tended to be more towards the "drop asteroids" scale, which is a bit hard to ignore :)
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: gyrobot on <08-22-13/1140:50>
Maybe. But the fact remains that launching Thor without the approval of the Corporate Court or a national military is going to result in annihilation of the group responsible. You'd have a bounty on your head so large it makes the bounties on blood mages and toxic shamans look like loose change you found under the couch cushions.

And no, Sendaz, the dragons are not friendly with the Draco Foundation. They but heads quite a bit, over the things in Dunkelzahn's will, Drakes, artifacts, and so on.

Well to be fair though, you would not believe how much people would pay to get that off your hands and how much they will protect you to make sure that happens.
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: Sendaz on <08-22-13/1144:33>
And no, Sendaz, the dragons are not friendly with the Draco Foundation. They but heads quite a bit, over the things in Dunkelzahn's will, Drakes, artifacts, and so on.
Friendly has nothing to do with business. 

The Foundation does clash with them and no doubt has extensive portfolios on many many dragons, but that would also mean they may know who may be financially or otherwise persuaded to a task or two.

While the Greats are certainly well off, the younger ones are still hungry for land and loot of their own, the smarter ones have and will sell those services within certain parameters.  You would not even have the Foundation playing middle man, just pointing you in the right direction is all.
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: Crimsondude on <08-22-13/1302:19>
And no, Sendaz, the dragons are not friendly with the Draco Foundation. They but heads quite a bit, over the things in Dunkelzahn's will, Drakes, artifacts, and so on.

There's a Great Dragon on the board of trustees (Masaru), and others who are at the least indifferent to the DF.

The only ones that have actively opposed the DF are Ghostwalker, Hestaby, and Lofwyr through S-K. But it's never been depicted as anything strategic, but rather specific clashes.
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: DeathStrobe on <11-28-13/0022:43>
Quote
To the first party to identify the victim in the accompanying photo and bring his five perpetrators to justice, I leave the access codes to my property in Paris. The Draco Foundation will release the codes upon receipt and verification of a complete account of the investigation, including the fate of the victim and the perpetrators.

What's the story with these 5 hooded guys and the victim?
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: redwolf on <11-28-13/0106:39>
hate crime, why the big d chose that foto ?that is the Q
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: DeathStrobe on <11-30-13/1619:03>
hate crime, why the big d chose that foto ?that is the Q

So there was never a novel or adventure source that explained it? So that means its GM fodder I guess.
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: Crimsondude on <11-30-13/1921:39>
Yep. The vast majority of them are just plot hooks for GMs.
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: firebug on <11-30-13/2046:11>
Oh, christ.  I just came across this and followed the wayback machine link, and gosh.  There's so much significance that I don't full understand... And I gotta say, the whole "give real world people papers that look like stock certificates"?  That's so awesome.  I bet somebody's pay a lot on eBay for one for S-K.
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: Crimsondude on <11-30-13/2204:20>
I'd never sell mine, and it's just Renraku.
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: witchdoctor on <12-01-13/1459:34>
For a period of ten days beginning on 14 February 2057, Lars J. Matthews will cease to possess any legal status. He will be stripped of all evidence of legal existence, including SIN, credsticks, DocWagon contract, bank accounts and so on. To the individual or group who ends Lars J. Matthews’ physical existence during those ten days, I leave all of Matthews’ assets and 1 million nuyen for a job well done. If Mr. Matthews survives and can prove his identity, his legal status and all possessions will be restored to him. Haven’t you heard? Never deal with a dragon, Lars.

What happened with the above request and what did Lars ever do to Big D?
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: Giabralter on <12-01-13/2140:13>
For a period of ten days beginning on 14 February 2057, Lars J. Matthews will cease to possess any legal status. He will be stripped of all evidence of legal existence, including SIN, credsticks, DocWagon contract, bank accounts and so on. To the individual or group who ends Lars J. Matthews’ physical existence during those ten days, I leave all of Matthews’ assets and 1 million nuyen for a job well done. If Mr. Matthews survives and can prove his identity, his legal status and all possessions will be restored to him. Haven’t you heard? Never deal with a dragon, Lars.

What happened with the above request and what did Lars ever do to Big D?

This was a shadowrun mission way back, like 2008 it was titled 48 hours.  The runners were protecting him for the last 48 hours of this trial.
[spoiler]
In the last 10 minutes someone lookin exactly like Lars kills him and walks away after paying the runners for their services.
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: witchdoctor on <12-01-13/2144:09>
For a period of ten days beginning on 14 February 2057, Lars J. Matthews will cease to possess any legal status. He will be stripped of all evidence of legal existence, including SIN, credsticks, DocWagon contract, bank accounts and so on. To the individual or group who ends Lars J. Matthews’ physical existence during those ten days, I leave all of Matthews’ assets and 1 million nuyen for a job well done. If Mr. Matthews survives and can prove his identity, his legal status and all possessions will be restored to him. Haven’t you heard? Never deal with a dragon, Lars.

What happened with the above request and what did Lars ever do to Big D?

This was a shadowrun mission way back, like 2008 it was titled 48 hours.  The runners were protecting him for the last 48 hours of this trial.
[spoiler]
In the last 10 minutes someone lookin exactly like Lars kills him and walks away after paying the runners for their services.

Any explanation about what Lars did that made the Big D want to bring him down with him? Or did Lars do him and a favor and the Big D was helping him fake his own death since the Big D assets would no longer be able to protect once he kicked it?
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: DeathStrobe on <12-01-13/2231:04>
For a period of ten days beginning on 14 February 2057, Lars J. Matthews will cease to possess any legal status. He will be stripped of all evidence of legal existence, including SIN, credsticks, DocWagon contract, bank accounts and so on. To the individual or group who ends Lars J. Matthews’ physical existence during those ten days, I leave all of Matthews’ assets and 1 million nuyen for a job well done. If Mr. Matthews survives and can prove his identity, his legal status and all possessions will be restored to him. Haven’t you heard? Never deal with a dragon, Lars.

What happened with the above request and what did Lars ever do to Big D?

This was a shadowrun mission way back, like 2008 it was titled 48 hours.  The runners were protecting him for the last 48 hours of this trial.
[spoiler]
In the last 10 minutes someone lookin exactly like Lars kills him and walks away after paying the runners for their services.
Was that mission in any of the published books, or was it just something for a con?
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: Giabralter on <12-01-13/2308:43>
It was for a con.
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: witchdoctor on <12-31-13/0002:55>
For a period of ten days beginning on 14 February 2057, Lars J. Matthews will cease to possess any legal status. He will be stripped of all evidence of legal existence, including SIN, credsticks, DocWagon contract, bank accounts and so on. To the individual or group who ends Lars J. Matthews’ physical existence during those ten days, I leave all of Matthews’ assets and 1 million nuyen for a job well done. If Mr. Matthews survives and can prove his identity, his legal status and all possessions will be restored to him. Haven’t you heard? Never deal with a dragon, Lars.

What happened with the above request and what did Lars ever do to Big D?

This was a shadowrun mission way back, like 2008 it was titled 48 hours.  The runners were protecting him for the last 48 hours of this trial.
[spoiler]
In the last 10 minutes someone lookin exactly like Lars kills him and walks away after paying the runners for their services.

Any explanation about what Lars did that made the Big D want to bring him down with him? Or did Lars do him and a favor and the Big D was helping him fake his own death since the Big D assets would no longer be able to protect once he kicked it?

I hate to sound like a broken record but are there details available of exactly why Dunkelzahn essentially had a hit put out on Lars J. Matthews and went to great lengths to make sure that he kicked it but separating him from anything that might be able to keep him from being six feet under? Clearly, Lars did something to the Big D and try as I might I can find no indication as to who Lars might've been and how he got Big D wanting him dead and why Big D waited until he died to put this hit out on him.
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: CanRay on <12-31-13/0115:54>
Because he's a dragon and that is all the reason he needs?
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: gyrobot on <08-18-14/0323:49>
Now when you think about it. It all lands on a 7. Feburary 14 aka 14/2...2057 2+5+7 = 14. Since 777 is a way to say jackpot and Fastjacks last name is Matthew. I see that Jackpoint was involved with a dragon. Asking Big D to help him hide and in his case if he had fallen to sybil...find runners to stop before its too late. So yeah Fastjack dealt with big D to prepare for the crash seven years from now and this was a warm up.
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: Crimsondude on <08-18-14/1004:50>
I hate to sound like a broken record but are there details available of exactly why Dunkelzahn essentially had a hit put out on Lars J. Matthews and went to great lengths to make sure that he kicked it but separating him from anything that might be able to keep him from being six feet under?
No. That's the only time he was ever mentioned, or will probably ever be mentioned. It's been 18 years. I think the statute of repose date has passed on Lars for good. A lot of the bequests in the will have no explanation because they were never intended to be explained or mentioned again. Sometimes there isn't an explanation for something that is mentioned or happens in the game world.



Now when you think about it. It all lands on a 7. Feburary 14 aka 14/2...2057 2+5+7 = 14. Since 777 is a way to say jackpot and Fastjacks last name is Matthew. I see that Jackpoint was involved with a dragon. Asking Big D to help him hide and in his case if he had fallen to sybil...find runners to stop before its too late. So yeah Fastjack dealt with big D to prepare for the crash seven years from now and this was a warm up.
Wow. I doubt that was the intent.
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: The Wyrm Ouroboros on <08-18-14/1229:10>
Now when you think about it. It all lands on a 7. Feburary 14 aka 14/2...2057 2+5+7 = 14. Since 777 is a way to say jackpot and Fastjacks last name is Matthew. I see that Jackpoint was involved with a dragon. Asking Big D to help him hide and in his case if he had fallen to sybil...find runners to stop before its too late. So yeah Fastjack dealt with big D to prepare for the crash seven years from now and this was a warm up.
Wow. I doubt that was the intent.

When did they let Plan 9 on here?  :P
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: Imveros on <08-18-14/2126:04>
Now when you think about it. It all lands on a 7. Feburary 14 aka 14/2...2057 2+5+7 = 14. Since 777 is a way to say jackpot and Fastjacks last name is Matthew. I see that Jackpoint was involved with a dragon. Asking Big D to help him hide and in his case if he had fallen to sybil...find runners to stop before its too late. So yeah Fastjack dealt with big D to prepare for the crash seven years from now and this was a warm up.

At first glance of all that math i thought the half-life 3 confirmed meme had made its way to our shores...
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: Parker on <08-20-14/1853:19>
So what about the NASA pics?  Factual or fake?  I'd have no problem with dragons being from another planet.  Perhaps Catalyst would let that be.... 8)
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: The Wyrm Ouroboros on <08-20-14/2119:03>
See the 'Missions' adventure book for 3e.
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: gyrobot on <08-22-14/0316:51>
Now when you think about it. It all lands on a 7. Feburary 14 aka 14/2...2057 2+5+7 = 14. Since 777 is a way to say jackpot and Fastjacks last name is Matthew. I see that Jackpoint was involved with a dragon. Asking Big D to help him hide and in his case if he had fallen to sybil...find runners to stop before its too late. So yeah Fastjack dealt with big D to prepare for the crash seven years from now and this was a warm up.
Wow. I doubt that was the intent.

When did they let Plan 9 on here?  :P

And then there are four sevens. Fastjack left his position to Slammo and Bull around the end of 74 when his multiple personality disorder became too much.

I wouldn't be too surprised if Big D was concerned the whole Nanovirus was a threat but was at least subtle about it. It was Big D way of saying "If the Shadows can't find you Fastjack in 10 days, then yes we are well damn fucked. If we do find you, maybe we can use your body to help find a cure..."
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: ProfGast on <08-23-14/1723:20>
But that's not all! There are more 7s!  The analysis was brought to us by gyrobot!
G is the first letter in the name and the 7th letter of the alphabet!
Y is the 25th letter of the alphabet and 2+5=7!



Yeah I'm done.   Can't keep going too silly.

Also there's no mention anywhere that *I* can find of FastJack's last name being Matthew/Matthews.  In fact the only fic I remember just names him as "Jack," and since I doubt a 12 year old boy would be going around with that as a street name in 2011 (I could be wrong mind) its quite possibly his actual name.
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: gyrobot on <09-04-14/2200:56>
Now I remember, Happy Trails

http://forums.shadowruntabletop.com/index.php?topic=7437.0;wap

Lars may be a relative of Fastjack  or an alias at least.
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: Crimsondude on <09-04-14/2218:44>
Different Perri.
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: Patrick Goodman on <09-05-14/1040:55>
Ah, the Will...the gift that keeps on giving....
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: Crimsondude on <09-05-14/1238:06>
Sort of. The last time the DF gave anything out from the will was like 2068.

:P
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: Mirikon on <09-05-14/1421:08>
Well, there are the bounties on blood mages and toxics. But yeah, we're still waiting on the Tirs to disclose the full bios of their founders, for instance, and for Aztlan to give up blood magic.
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: Crimsondude on <09-05-14/1657:49>
Yeah, but even the bounties aren't given out that often.

And there may not be a gift to give if the Tirs ever did comply.
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: Patrick Goodman on <09-05-14/1819:15>
I was thinking more to us as players, GMs, and writers....
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: Nath on <09-06-14/0706:50>
Sort of. The last time the DF gave anything out from the will was like 2068.
There is one bequest to be handed in 2071, and one which is required for as long as the Draco Foundation exists.
Quote from: Dunkelzahn's Will
To Morgan Leroy Hall, on the occasion of his reaching his majority at eighteen years of age on June 28, 2071, I leave all stocks in my Florence portfolio. Until this time, no transactions may take place involving these stocks. Any votes to which these shares are entitled shall be undertaken by Morgan’s legal guardian. I also leave 1 million nuyen in a trust fund to be managed by his legal guardian for his care and schooling until his twenty-first birthday, the remainder of which will transfer to Morgan Hall on his twenty-first birthday.
Quote from: Dunkelzahn's Will
Beginning in February of 2058, the Draco Foundation will sponsor two annual competitions for the purpose of advancing the frontiers of knowledge, with an emphasis on practical applications. These competitions will be open to the public, with no entrance fee and no formal qualifications required. Winners will receive a patent established in their name by the Draco Foundation, and additional resources for development if applicable.

The first competition (time and date to be announced) will judge magical innovations, including but not limited to such categories as Spell Design, Magical Theory, Magical Objects and Astral Exploration. The second competition will judge technological innovations, including but not limited to such categories as Rigger Technology, Space Technology, Matrix Technology, Medical Technology and Cybernetics. This competition will take place roughly six months after the first competition.

But yeah, we're still waiting on the Tirs to disclose the full bios of their founders, for instance, and for Aztlan to give up blood magic.
Too late for the latter.
Quote from: Dunkelzahn's Will
To the Aztechnology corporation, I leave the Sexton of Worlds, with the provision that the corporation and the government of Aztlan ban the practice of blood magic in territories under their jurisdiction within a year of my death and submit to an outside investigation to verify this ban, the investigator to be designated by and answerable to the Draco Foundation.
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: Wakshaani on <09-06-14/0712:10>
MOrgan Hall is a plot thread that could be picked up. Neat!

And the Tech/Magic competition should *really* be used more.

*jots down a  couple of notes*

I swear, if I ever write anything *half* as useful as Dunk's Will, I'll consider myself a good writer. That book remains astounding to this day.
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: Nath on <09-06-14/0823:44>
The annual competitions are possibly the most overlooked item in Dunkelzahn's Will. They stand out as the only one with no time and no money limits: The foundation is to give any quantity of "additional resources for development".

Most people boast about Dunkelzahn changing the megacorporate scene by triggering Fuchi Industrial Electronics collapse (which he's supposed to have done by giving Richard Villiers just enough additional stock to make him realize he would never control Fuchi and should leave).

Those competitions target the very basis of megacorporate power. Megacorporations have more employees, more facilities, more money and more power. There's no more room for growth. What matters is innovation. Most of Shadowrun is about abducting scientists, stealing research results and blowing up labs. Because megacorporations had no other way to ensure the next breakthrough will come from their own R&D divisions. To remain in the top spots for several decades like the AAA do, they had to either take over or crush any start-up business who could threaten their market shares with a new product. That's what shadowrunners are for, and that's why they required the governement to restrict the extraterritorial privilege (and the security measures it allows to take) only the the largest corporations, to be decided by the Corporate Court.

Dunkelzahn's Will allows the Foundation to grant unlimited funds to such start-up, for additional research, production, distribution, marketing and, most important, security. It doesn't even have to disclose the sums engaged.
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: Mirikon on <09-06-14/1407:06>
Well, IIRC, Fuchi's demise came because of two things. First, Miles Lanier, head of Fuchi Security, got a board seat at Renraku, Fuchi's primary rival. That would be like one of the big guys at Apple suddenly getting a seat on Microsoft's board. Second, he gave Villiers more shares of Fuchi, enabling him to roll enough core properties into RJR, which he was then able to break off and turn into Novatech. So basically, Big D gave a one-two punch to Fuchi, and also shook up Renraku something awful at the same time.
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: Nath on <09-06-14/1440:08>
Well, IIRC, Fuchi's demise came because of two things. First, Miles Lanier, head of Fuchi Security, got a board seat at Renraku, Fuchi's primary rival. That would be like one of the big guys at Apple suddenly getting a seat on Microsoft's board. Second, he gave Villiers more shares of Fuchi, enabling him to roll enough core properties into RJR, which he was then able to break off and turn into Novatech. So basically, Big D gave a one-two punch to Fuchi, and also shook up Renraku something awful at the same time.
My point is that what happened entirely relied on Richard Villiers will to leave Fuchi and start a new corporation he would own. Miles Lanier was actually so loyal to him that he kept working toward that goal while seating on Renraku board of directors. Had Richard Villiers been perfectly happy to keep on running Fuchi like he did from the two decades, only with a little bit more voting stock, a trustful mole inside Renraku and a new head of security, Fuchi may still be around.

So either Villiers already had started crafting a plan to create a new corporation, and Dunkelzahn learnt about it, or the dragon knew he just needed those two gentle pushes to knock off Fuchi delicate balance of power, counting on Richard Villiers' ambitions or any other factor to destroy Fuchi.

Another big factor in the events as they took place during Blood in the Boardroom was Renraku Computer Systems getting access to Brightlight technology, encroaching on Fuchi and MCT market shares with new, superior products (and upgrading the Seattle arcology computer system with the result we know). Without this, Fuchi may have been able to survive the loss of its North American division. Renraku and Brightlight struck their secret deal in May or June 2057 (at the end of Black Madonna events). It's possible Dunkelzahn knew about it, but this was supposed to be a big secret.
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: Crimsondude on <09-06-14/1851:19>
I was thinking more to us as players, GMs, and writers....
:P
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: Mirikon on <09-07-14/0205:14>
Almost certain Big D knew about it, Nath, since having a seat on the board means you get to know a LOT about what is going on inside a mega. Also, one of his bequests directly related to a virtual room in the SCIRE host that had Leonardo's notes on AI research.

As for Fuchi, they'd been at eachother's throats long before Blood in the Boardroom or Big D's death. And I think you're understating things when you say 'gentle pushes'. That was a sledgehammer to the kneecaps. Villiers is a longtime schemer. Didn't take a dragon to know that if he could find a way to be the one guy in charge of a megacorp instead of part of a triumvirate, he would jump at it if it had any chance at all of succeeding.
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: Crimsondude on <09-07-14/0244:25>
Morgan Hall is a plot thread that could be picked up. Neat!
There is one. The reason I remembered Hall is because I wrote that he is a student at Georgetown in Conspiracy Theories, and his going to the foundation HQ to finalize the paperwork and receive full control of Dunkelzahn's gift in 2071 was the last time that something had been claimed from the will — notwithstanding the money given in the competitions and from the Ancient Wisdom Fund. Bounties ... Eh.

Well, IIRC, Fuchi's demise came because of two things. First, Miles Lanier, head of Fuchi Security, got a board seat at Renraku, Fuchi's primary rival. That would be like one of the big guys at Apple suddenly getting a seat on Microsoft's board.
You mean like when Eric Schmidt was elected to Apple's board in 2006?
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: Patrick Goodman on <09-07-14/0917:58>
No one's claimed the Jiffy Pop bequest? I got dibs....
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: Wakshaani on <09-07-14/0922:33>
This thread makes me so happy. You have no idea. :)
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: Nath on <09-07-14/1555:39>
Almost certain Big D knew about it, Nath, since having a seat on the board means you get to know a LOT about what is going on inside a mega. Also, one of his bequests directly related to a virtual room in the SCIRE host that had Leonardo's notes on AI research.
I remembered Miles Lanier, while a member of the board, was kept in the dark about Brightlight association with Renraku (yes, I prefer to avoid calling him "Leonardo" to avoid confusion for the people who may not know that "Leonardo is not Leonardo"). But that was because he was Miles Lanier, former head of Fuchi security. The random board member who had been with Renraku for years previously may have been taught about it (as I don't expect Dunkelzahn to have personally attended Renraku and Aztechnology boards).

On the other hand, the reward for information about room 1835 inside Renraku arcology in Seattle makes things much more complicated than they may appear on the surface. I can't decide where Steve Kenson stands between "merely good" and "so amazingly brilliant that it was lost on most of the audience" (though if you ask me, the real masterpiece would then be hidden in "Who watch the watchers?").
See, those two items are, on their most basic level, two separate plot seeds for SR authors and gamemasters to use. To Renraku and the world, it states that Dunkelzahn had shares and a seat on the board, and that he knows there's something significant inside room 1835. It suggests he could have had access to any information given to the board, and that the Draco Foundation does not know about the content of room 1835.
If Renraku board was given information about Brightlight work on the AEP, Renraku can either suppose that for an unknown reasons, either Dunkelzahn representative did not pass him the information, or Dunkelzahn did not pass it to the Draco Foundation. Or both Dunkelzahn and the Draco Foundation had the information, and the reward is just some test (not as silly as you may think, if you consider that room 1835 should have had the best Matrix defenses Brightlight could come up with, that may have been a way for the Draco Foundation to fin a decker able to past those elsewhere).
But it is equally possible that Renraku board was not given any specific information about Brightlight work on the AEP, and Dunkelzahn really was after information about the content of room 1835 (knowing it is related to Brightlight work, or simply aware that it benefited from some extraordinary security measures), as most people would assume when reading it.
Finally, the actual goal may only be to make Renraku reacts when the Will was read, to get a peek at what they do and who's involved.

As for Fuchi, they'd been at eachother's throats long before Blood in the Boardroom or Big D's death. And I think you're understating things when you say 'gentle pushes'. That was a sledgehammer to the kneecaps. Villiers is a longtime schemer. Didn't take a dragon to know that if he could find a way to be the one guy in charge of a megacorp instead of part of a triumvirate, he would jump at it if it had any chance at all of succeeding.
The thing is, nothing that Dunkelzahn did contributed to Villiers plan itself. He used his personal and familial fortune to fund the takeover of Fuchi Americas assets by Cambridge Holdings and Villiers International, and his position as head of Fuchi Americas to authorize the sales and hide them from Fuchi Industrial Electronics management. That's something he could have done at any point ever since 2038.

I can imagine it helped tricking Yamana and Nakatomi that they were more eager than ever to weaken Villiers division, and thus welcomed any report that Fuchi Americas was "streamlining its operations". Miles Lanier move to Renraku does little to nothing to contribute to the plan. Whether Villiers had the operation in mind for a long time or imagined it in the few months that followed the death of Dunkelzahn, all the dragon did was "pushing him off the cliff." Dunkelzahn may have been confident that Fuchi Industrial Electronics would not survive while Richard Villiers would find a way to, but ho he'd do it was entirely up to him (that is, unless Dunkelzahn secretly left him instructions).
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: Crimsondude on <09-07-14/2128:21>
It's a shame David Hyatt didn't get to explore the whole Romulus and Remus connection to Room 1835.

As for what Dunk told the DF, there's lots to explore there. He gave them the briefing on his fellow Great Dragons that is used as the expository for Ryumyo's chapter of DotSW, but when Daviar quizzes Harlequin to give him King Richard's armor, the default answers are basically riddles. God only knows what the information they have on file to confirm the release of the true backgrounds of the original Council of Princes and Seelie Court. It could be nothing, knowing that they'd never answer, or it could be a set of tomes so detailed as to put Robert Caro to shame.



No one's claimed the Jiffy Pop bequest? I got dibs....
Not officially. I would've mentioned it in Clutch if I had time/wordcount.


I swear, if I ever write anything *half* as useful as Dunk's Will, I'll consider myself a good writer. That book remains astounding to this day.
Looking back, it should have won the 1997 ENnie for best supplement or even best product given its impact. True genius is often overlooked in its own time, I guess.


Though I'm pretty sure that one idea I shared could've matched it in time.
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: Sendaz on <09-15-14/1209:53>
No one's claimed the Jiffy Pop bequest? I got dibs....
Some say the Big D actually blew himself up that night in the limo trying out a prototype Jiffy Pop.

A few crime scene investigators did report a light buttery smell at the scene of the rift, so take that as you will. :P
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: The Wyrm Ouroboros on <09-15-14/1222:35>
"The Jiffy Pop War."  Season 6 Missions Theme.
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: Crimsondude on <09-15-14/1254:00>
No one's claimed the Jiffy Pop bequest? I got dibs....
Some say the Big D actually blew himself up that night in the limo trying out a prototype Jiffy Pop.

A few crime scene investigators did report a light buttery smell at the scene of the rift, so take that as you will. :P
He used a Microwave spell.
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: Parker on <09-16-14/1507:35>
     NOW that there would be a useful spell! 8)  Not only a utilitarian one for street survival but useful in combat.  Both in the shadows of a run and the full daylight of the battlefield.   :D

In fact, I'll whip it up for an NPC mage to freak out my party with. . . hehehe ;)
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: Sendaz on <09-16-14/1926:30>
Armor Mod:

Popcorn Packs
Capacity -  (added externally to current armor, like gel packs but without any armor addition)
Avail: 2 (your local Stuffer Shack)
Cost: 30 (it' packs of microwavable popcorn and some duct tape)

For the runner paranoid about rumors of a new 'microwave' spell on the streets and wanting to avoid being nuked invisibly, this mod offers some warning as the attached packets of popcorn begin to cook off and 'pop' when exposed to high amounts of  radiation. 

As the spell is typically indirect, getting out of the way still serves a purpose so if you hear this popping, you best be a dropping.

Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: Crimsondude on <09-16-14/1932:50>
I've been fortunate, no wait, tortured by being (voluntarily) subjected to one of those microwave area deterrence DE weapons the Air Force has been working on. Popcorn popping won't give you much warning.
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: Shaidar on <11-18-14/0603:34>
THREAD NECROMANCY!!!!
Will Left Overs:

•   To the party who finds the bones of the Dragon Skeleton for which I possess the head, I offer two options. You may keep the bones or turn them over to the Draco Foundation for a reward. All discoveries must be independently verified as Dragon bones, such identification to be made by any living dragon. The Draco Foundation will assemble all pieces of the skeleton it receives and display the results in the Smithsonian Institution for the edification of the general public. My admittedly incomplete research indicates the following coordinates as the likely locations for the Dragon bones: Lat 41, Long 121; Lat 41 50n, Long 87-45w; Lat 47-21n, Long 122-12w; Lat 19-24n, Long 99-9w; Lat 65, Long 130; Lat 39-44n, Long 104-59w

My Google-Fu has uncovered some interesting info regarding this passage of Big D's Will.  All addresses are modern day.  The coordinate sets without compass components (NSEW) each generated 4 locations.

LatitudeLongitudeAltitude (m)Address
N41E12133Unnamed Road, Lianshan, Huludao, Liaoning, China
N41W1211634Modoc National Forest, Dixie Valley Road, Bieber, CA 96009, USA
S41W121-3809At Sea, West of Chile
S41E121-4855At Sea, South of Australia
N41-50W87-451853237 50th Court, Cicero, IL 60804, USA
N47-21W122-1212410500-10698 Southeast 281st Street, Auburn, WA 98092, USA
N19-24W99-92231Diagonal San Antonio 1725, Narvarte Poniente, 03020 Mexico City, Federal District, Mexico
N65E1301299Sakha Republic, Russia, 678318
N65W1301354Inuvik Region, NT, Canada
S65W130-4740At Sea, Antarctica South Pacific
S65E130-995At Sea, Between Antarctica & Australia
N39-44W104-591378218 Provincial Road, Alxa Zuoqi, Alxa, Inner Mongolia, China
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: Namikaze on <11-18-14/1137:47>
That is actually pretty cool - it is definitely helpful to have more than just coordinates for those who want to make this into a game topic.
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: Herr Brackhaus on <11-18-14/1211:38>
And there just happens to be one right smack dab in the middle of Auburn, WA. Interesting. Very interesting...

Thank you for the info, Shaidar.
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: Shaidar on <11-19-14/0116:39>
And one in what was once the Northwest Territory of Canada.
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: Crimsondude on <11-19-14/0125:41>
*Ahem*

"Diagonal San Antonio 1725, Narvarte Poniente, 03020 Mexico City, Federal District, Mexico"
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: psycho835 on <11-19-14/0535:32>
Hmmm... Interesting. Does anyone remember the adress of the main temple?
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: The Wyrm Ouroboros on <11-19-14/1257:02>
The Zocalo.
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: psycho835 on <11-19-14/1832:14>
Wait, as in, the plaza? THAT's where they built the damn thing?
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: Crimsondude on <11-19-14/1848:32>
Yes
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: Sabato Kuroi on <11-22-14/0453:48>
Aren't dragons supposed to be "reduced to ash by dragonsbreath" after they die?And why would someone scatter dragon bones?

The fact  that Azzies built their nasty main temple on some dragon bones is frightening.
I wish catalyst continued these metaplots someday.
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: Sendaz on <11-22-14/0526:09>
Aren't dragons supposed to be "reduced to ash by dragonsbreath" after they die?And why would someone scatter dragon bones?

The fact  that Azzies built their nasty main temple on some dragon bones is frightening.
I wish catalyst continued these metaplots someday.
Two possibilities jump to mind:

1) The reduced to ash bit usually implies another dragon did the burning as per their customs and rituals, so if a dragon was slain by a metahuman and not recovered by the dragons  thus the bones may have been scattered by the intense demand for dragon bits for arcane usage.  So you could be looking at an earlier version of a Sirrug throwdown that actually finished the job.

2) The dragon did something to really piss off the other dragons or some other special variable involved so his remains were intentionally scattered.  We do not know enough dragon lore to really support if this is an option, but again this may have been a very special dragon.
Be funny if it turned out to be a dragon equivalent of HHMVV (DVV ?) and if the bones are reassembled with sufficient dragon's blood applied it could regenerate and reawaken.

But where would one get a cape and coffin in that size? :P
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: psycho835 on <11-22-14/0646:08>
I think there was a seriously scary corrupted GD back in the 4th Age.

And the whole "dragon's-turning-to-ash-once-slain"... Yeah, I don't think so. Azzies held Dzitbalchen's corpse for, what, a decade? Longer?
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: Patrick Goodman on <11-22-14/0855:22>
But where would one get a cape and coffin in that size? :P
Wal-Mart.
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: Shaidar on <11-22-14/1231:59>
I was thinking the Dragon Bones might be those of Ghostwalkers Mate which is in 2070s the new Spirit of Denver, which has the astral form of a dragon but no physical form.  Now wouldn't that be a twist, once the skeleton is assembled and in the Smithsonian GW's Mate comes and repossess it as the proper owner.
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: Eurydice on <12-17-14/1934:55>
They aren't hers. She died at the hands of 'Atlanteans' somewhere on the other side of the world. I'm curious as to how Ghostwalker kept her spirit anchored for so long. She's been dead for ages. 
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: DeathStrobe on <12-18-14/0157:54>
Its possible that great dragon's don't "die" in the traditional sense. Feuerschwinge's astral form was spotted 3 years after her "death." But then again she probably didn't actually die.

Like wise, Nachtmeister died back in 2062 and we haven't seen him since then. Which would throw that theory out the window.

But on the other hand even after Dunkelzahn died he did become a free spirit...or something... Which might lead credence to great's not dying in the traditional sense.

So at the end of the day, dragon's are cheaters, and do whatever they want, even after they die.
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: Nath on <12-18-14/0608:58>
Its possible that great dragon's don't "die" in the traditional sense.
As far as Earthdawn lore goes, what happened to Yuichotol wasn't considered as something normal for dead dragons to do at the time.
Quote
The Book of Dragons

The most intriguing of Icewing's spirit allies is the one Named Ghost Scales. I strongly suspect that this is in fact the spirit of the Yuichotol, killed by the Therans before the Scourge. Yuichotol mated with Icewing on more than one occasion, and she was as adept in manipulating spirits forces as he is. Together they enchanted a set of powerful soul-stones, similar to those used by the nethermancers of the Hold of Courage in ancient Cara Fahd, so tha if one should die, their spirit would remain trapped within the stone. This transgression of dragon customs has yet to be atoned for. Her current state and powers are unfathomable to me, but I understand he has several magical constructs which allow her to speak and move. I would grieve to discover that one so great as she had sunken to become merely another doll of his.
- The Outcast Dragon, to the Denairastas

I understand there exists a difference of opinion on this matter between Doll-Maker, Ghost Scales and myself on one hand and many others on the other. May I remind you that at the last Council we allotted Ghost Scales a period of peace which she has not yet exhausted. Once that time has ended, we shall revisit the matter.
- Dunkelzahn, to the other dragons
The Clutch of Dragons, saying Lofwyr was the one who shattered Ghostwalker's mate spirit several thousand years before the Sixth Age, which may hint at how the dragons did "revisit the matter."
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: Michael Chandra on <12-18-14/0611:05>
Its possible that great dragon's don't "die" in the traditional sense. Feuerschwinge's astral form was spotted 3 years after her "death." But then again she probably didn't actually die.
Shadowrun Returns: Dragonfall is I think officially Canon for those events. As for the big D, he did a special sacrifice thing so it's an exception, not the rule.
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: Namikaze on <12-18-14/1139:25>
So at the end of the day, dragon's are cheaters, and do whatever they want, even after they die.

Yeah, Dragons are the big Deus Ex Machina for the Shadowrun world.  But we love that about them.  :)
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: Eurydice on <12-19-14/0115:49>
Dragons lacking a body have to fade sometime. right? Even if it takes years? Like when a wiz dies and their astral form only sticks around for a few hours after?
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: The Wyrm Ouroboros on <12-19-14/0128:08>
That would match with the current rules, but realize that sometime before the end of the 4th World, 5000+ years ago, Ghostwalker appears to have seperated from his body and gone into the metaplanes, and did not return until 2060 (2061? whichever).  While Nath's quote would suggest there was some specific, unique, and very powerful magic at work, this would have to be seriously powerful to hold the two alive-but-separate not only for such a long time, but also despite an entire down-cycle's worth of lack-of-magic - including the absolute nadir times, 2500 years back.
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: Crimsondude on <12-19-14/0220:54>
Dunkelzhn, Zebulon, and Ghostwalker all basically ended up on extended Metaplanar quests. They could only do so because they had anchors to the meatworld: the Dragonheart, the souls stones, and Ghostwalker's body respectively. That is something dragons can do that metahumans cannot, owing, it would seem, to apocryphally spiritual origins. Lofwyr did the same thing in Ragnarock when he anchored his spirit to Tommy Talon to make Alamais think the golden wyrm was dead.

I'm not privy to all the details about Feuerschwinge (and even if I were, I wouldn't tell you), but as I recall the German government never recovered her remains. It's also been established that radiation and mana have unusual interactions, to say the least. I suppose it is not purely coincidental that when Pegasus translated Street Legends, two of the four entries they added were for Kaltenstein and Nebelherr, the two Great Dragons that were present along with Lofwyr when Feuerschwinge died.
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: Eurydice on <12-19-14/0244:46>
So why couldn't a mage tie his 'essence' temporarily to an item and then untie it? That would make for safer and longer astral projection with enough resources.   
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: Crimsondude on <12-19-14/0255:32>
Well, metaplanar travel works differently that normal astral projection. That said,

Quote
Together they enchanted a set of powerful soul-stones, similar to those used by the nethermancers of the Hold of Courage in ancient Cara Fahd, so tha if one should die, their spirit would remain trapped within the stone.

This suggests that it's possible, but the knowledge is lost to metahumans.
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: Eurydice on <12-19-14/0315:36>
I think it would make an interesting incentive for a wiz if someone offered to teach them how to. I'm sure Aztechnology or certain dragons would be willing to give it to someone for a very high price. 
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: The Wyrm Ouroboros on <12-19-14/0917:52>
And just as soon as someone ICly figures out how to do that ...
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: Crimsondude on <12-19-14/1141:07>
There is one person who may know.
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: The Wyrm Ouroboros on <12-19-14/1156:39>
Renegade, what in the world makes you think Aztechnology would know how?  Great dragons, sure - immortal elves, sure.  Aztechnology???
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: Crimsondude on <12-19-14/1428:15>
Aztechnology wouldn't. Those (formerly) within it might.

Technically, this is true given Dunkelzahn's apparent knowledge and his seat on the board.
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: Eurydice on <12-19-14/1501:02>
Ghostwalker would be my first choice though. Can you still talk ask him a question if you bring a worthy enough gift?
Aztechnology has Nethermancers right? They would know.
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: Michael Chandra on <12-19-14/1501:55>
I'm not privy to all the details about Feuerschwinge (and even if I were, I wouldn't tell you), but as I recall the German government never recovered her remains. It's also been established that radiation and mana have unusual interactions, to say the least. I suppose it is not purely coincidental that when Pegasus translated Street Legends, two of the four entries they added were for Kaltenstein and Nebelherr, the two Great Dragons that were present along with Lofwyr when Feuerschwinge died.
Man now I want to read that, Kaltenstein is Kalanyr's father right, or am I recalling that wrong?

As for miss Fire Lady, she's in SRR and stuff happens, not sure if it's 100% canon.
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: Crimsondude on <12-19-14/1513:07>
I'm not privy to all the details about Feuerschwinge (and even if I were, I wouldn't tell you), but as I recall the German government never recovered her remains. It's also been established that radiation and mana have unusual interactions, to say the least. I suppose it is not purely coincidental that when Pegasus translated Street Legends, two of the four entries they added were for Kaltenstein and Nebelherr, the two Great Dragons that were present along with Lofwyr when Feuerschwinge died.
Man now I want to read that, Kaltenstein is Kalanyr's father right, or am I recalling that wrong?
It doesn't mention Kalanyr.
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: Michael Chandra on <12-20-14/0923:21>
That's okay, I just want to know more about the guy that some rumor Kalanyr was originally prepping his lands in Seattle for. :) I'll go bug Sangius about it.
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: McGuffin on <12-21-14/1829:04>
I'm not privy to all the details about Feuerschwinge (and even if I were, I wouldn't tell you), but as I recall the German government never recovered her remains. It's also been established that radiation and mana have unusual interactions, to say the least. I suppose it is not purely coincidental that when Pegasus translated Street Legends, two of the four entries they added were for Kaltenstein and Nebelherr, the two Great Dragons that were present along with Lofwyr when Feuerschwinge died.
Man now I want to read that, Kaltenstein is Kalanyr's father right, or am I recalling that wrong?

As for miss Fire Lady, she's in SRR and stuff happens, not sure if it's 100% canon.

I'm also interested to know if the events pictured in the PC game Shadowrun: Dragonfall are considered canon or not?
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: Crimsondude on <12-21-14/1950:56>
I can't recall, but I know it's been answered. Let me check.
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: Imveros on <12-21-14/2301:10>
And if it is Canon which choices were we supposed to have made regarding the key plot points
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: DeathStrobe on <12-21-14/2313:45>
And if it is Canon which choices were we supposed to have made regarding the key plot points

Honestly, does it matter? Assume you leave Apex alive. Crash 2.0 most certainly killed him. Say you kill Feuerschwinge or set her free to sleep for 1000 years. It doesn't impact the metaplot in any significant way since she has never appeared directly in any published adventures and it's unlikely she ever will. So really, the status quo is maintained no matter what happened during Dragonfall.

And I prefer the canon to be left ambiguous. Since canon is full of contradictions and lies anyway, there really is no way to know for sure.
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: Sabato Kuroi on <12-22-14/0510:42>
But Lofwyr extinguishing  the last potential threats  (Panacea and Fire Wing)  before moving in to destroy the Flux State and re- establish corporate power in Berlin  is a really nice addition to the canon.
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: Crimsondude on <12-22-14/1749:17>
My mistake. That was an internal discussion. I can't say more.
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: Stry on <12-22-14/2150:19>
Dunkelzhn, Zebulon, and Ghostwalker all basically ended up on extended Metaplanar quests. They could only do so because they had anchors to the meatworld: the Dragonheart, the souls stones, and Ghostwalker's body respectively. That is something dragons can do that metahumans cannot, owing, it would seem, to apocryphally spiritual origins. Lofwyr did the same thing in Ragnarock when he anchored his spirit to Tommy Talon to make Alamais think the golden wyrm was dead.

I'm not privy to all the details about Feuerschwinge (and even if I were, I wouldn't tell you), but as I recall the German government never recovered her remains. It's also been established that radiation and mana have unusual interactions, to say the least. I suppose it is not purely coincidental that when Pegasus translated Street Legends, two of the four entries they added were for Kaltenstein and Nebelherr, the two Great Dragons that were present along with Lofwyr when Feuerschwinge died.

If memory serves correct in "The Burning TIme" Tommy Talon visits a metaplan and some how releases Ghostwalker.
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: Crimsondude on <12-22-14/2214:52>
Sort of, yeah.
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: Shaidar on <12-24-14/0423:19>
So does Sameul Verner, aka Twist, in Find Your Own Truth.
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: The Wyrm Ouroboros on <12-24-14/2116:07>
No - Twist enters a spirit-prison in Australia in order to acquire an opal to be used to, IIRC, anchor a powerful ritual - one to turn his sister back into an ork, or maybe into a human.  In doing so, he released another powerful spirit, what I'd call a Shadow spirit who took the guise of Spider.
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: Herr Brackhaus on <12-24-14/2148:34>
I thought Sam Verner released an actual Spider totot/spirit; he was trying to turn his formerly human-turned-ork-turned-wendigo back into a human, and he stole the anchor / power focus stone on the spider spirits prison to do so. Berber pretty much went up against half the possible big bad magic things out there.
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: The Wyrm Ouroboros on <12-24-14/2212:17>
Consider that a totem is a concept-construction, that Anansazi (sp?) is a powerful beneficient totem, and that the 'Spider' there was nasty and corrupt as hell, and that he then killed it via GGD magic, I doubt strongly that it was the actual totem - just something masquerading as it.
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: Namikaze on <12-24-14/2344:08>
I don't think you can kill a totem spirit directly.  In fact, in Street Grimoire it's pretty specific that you cannot target a totem spirit, and often times those that don't follow a totem spirit can't even sense the spirit at all.  Which makes me wonder: how would you kill a totem spirit?  Or perhaps more precisely, what is a totem spirit?  It doesn't follow the normal rules for a spirit at all (can't be bound, can't be summoned, can't be attacked, can't be sensed, etc.) and yet it's almost universally referred to as a spirit.  People make pacts with their totem spirits, they can summon ally spirits that are aligned with a totem, and some other things that seem...  spirit-ish.

My take on it is that the totem "spirit" is a creation of astral energy that reflects ideals and concepts.  This would make them spirits in some regard, but I would argue that they can't exist without people who believe in them.  For instance, Coyote.  The coyote animal is not actually a trickster or anything special.  So the Coyote totem does not reflect the coyote animal at all - instead it reflects the ideal of trickery.  It only appears as Coyote to those that believe in Coyote.  It could just as easily appear as Clown, Raven, or just Trickery as a pure ideal.  These manifestations can take thousands of guises, but never actually enter our world.  Thus the spirit isn't a true spirit, but rather a concept given astral form and power.

Thus, I believe that a totem spirit is not a spirit at all, but it can be subject to some of the rules of a spirit.  If one wanted to "kill" a totem, they'd have to kill the ideal that the totem represents.  Some of these ideals or concepts are rather convoluted though.  Dragonslayer for instance is a hero - how does one kill the concept of heroism in the world?  It's ingrained into the very fiber of our being.
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: Stry on <12-25-14/0002:41>
Sigh I hate to even mention it, but I have a feeling the totem spirit is sort of a kin to a religion type thing, and it is sort of a shared hallucination/ belief.
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: Reaver on <12-25-14/0011:37>
I don't think you can kill a totem spirit directly.  In fact, in Street Grimoire it's pretty specific that you cannot target a totem spirit, and often times those that don't follow a totem spirit can't even sense the spirit at all.  Which makes me wonder: how would you kill a totem spirit?  Or perhaps more precisely, what is a totem spirit?  It doesn't follow the normal rules for a spirit at all (can't be bound, can't be summoned, can't be attacked, can't be sensed, etc.) and yet it's almost universally referred to as a spirit.  People make pacts with their totem spirits, they can summon ally spirits that are aligned with a totem, and some other things that seem...  spirit-ish.

My take on it is that the totem "spirit" is a creation of astral energy that reflects ideals and concepts.  This would make them spirits in some regard, but I would argue that they can't exist without people who believe in them.  For instance, Coyote.  The coyote animal is not actually a trickster or anything special.  So the Coyote totem does not reflect the coyote animal at all - instead it reflects the ideal of trickery.  It only appears as Coyote to those that believe in Coyote.  It could just as easily appear as Clown, Raven, or just Trickery as a pure ideal.  These manifestations can take thousands of guises, but never actually enter our world.  Thus the spirit isn't a true spirit, but rather a concept given astral form and power.

Thus, I believe that a totem spirit is not a spirit at all, but it can be subject to some of the rules of a spirit.  If one wanted to "kill" a totem, they'd have to kill the ideal that the totem represents.  Some of these ideals or concepts are rather convoluted though.  Dragonslayer for instance is a hero - how does one kill the concept of heroism in the world?  It's ingrained into the very fiber of our being.
....

That... actually makes a surprising amount of sense to me about totems and totem Spirits....

Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: BetaCAV on <12-25-14/2043:17>
I don't see where anyone definitively solved the question of "where rock meets sky", but I did stumble over this recently;

http://www.sportinggoodsoutdoor.com/p/detail/1580710506/Arches-National-Park-Where-Rock-Meets-Sky-A-10x13-Book.html
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: Shaidar on <12-26-14/0144:50>
I thought Sam Verner released an actual Spider totot/spirit; he was trying to turn his formerly human-turned-ork-turned-wendigo back into a human, and he stole the anchor / power focus stone on the spider spirits prison to do so. Berber pretty much went up against half the possible big bad magic things out there.

And later Dog leads Twist on a Metaplanar Quest to learn the power to utilize the Ghost Dance (Sacrifice Metamagic) and a clue as to who can teach him the Ghost Dance.
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: psycho835 on <12-26-14/1129:17>
I don't think you can kill a totem spirit directly.  In fact, in Street Grimoire it's pretty specific that you cannot target a totem spirit, and often times those that don't follow a totem spirit can't even sense the spirit at all.  Which makes me wonder: how would you kill a totem spirit?  Or perhaps more precisely, what is a totem spirit?  It doesn't follow the normal rules for a spirit at all (can't be bound, can't be summoned, can't be attacked, can't be sensed, etc.) and yet it's almost universally referred to as a spirit.  People make pacts with their totem spirits, they can summon ally spirits that are aligned with a totem, and some other things that seem...  spirit-ish.

My take on it is that the totem "spirit" is a creation of astral energy that reflects ideals and concepts.  This would make them spirits in some regard, but I would argue that they can't exist without people who believe in them.  For instance, Coyote.  The coyote animal is not actually a trickster or anything special.  So the Coyote totem does not reflect the coyote animal at all - instead it reflects the ideal of trickery.  It only appears as Coyote to those that believe in Coyote.  It could just as easily appear as Clown, Raven, or just Trickery as a pure ideal.  These manifestations can take thousands of guises, but never actually enter our world.  Thus the spirit isn't a true spirit, but rather a concept given astral form and power.

Thus, I believe that a totem spirit is not a spirit at all, but it can be subject to some of the rules of a spirit.  If one wanted to "kill" a totem, they'd have to kill the ideal that the totem represents.  Some of these ideals or concepts are rather convoluted though.  Dragonslayer for instance is a hero - how does one kill the concept of heroism in the world?  It's ingrained into the very fiber of our being.
I wholeheartedly agree. The totems are concepts with animals, people, objects etc. appropriate to particular culture as their... "embodiment".
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: Herr Brackhaus on <12-26-14/1212:05>
And if it is Canon which choices were we supposed to have made regarding the key plot points
Spoiler warnings, obviously.

---

It's a fair bet that the ending where the team joins with Vauclair in his quest to kill the dragons is not canon; in this version of events, Dunkelzahn is killed before becoming president, which means he can't kill himself to prevent the Horrors from crossing over a year later. Not to mention all the other dead dragons this choice leads to.

Almost all of the the other endings are ambiguous enough to all have been possible canon endings, in my opinion.

Feuerschwinge could have lived or died and we wouldn't really know in 2075. If she lives, she essentially just goes off to sleep until the next age. If she dies, well, then she has no further impact on the world.

Panacea itself likely ended with the death of Vauclair, which is almost guaranteed (either he kills himself or Audran does). I don't think I've played through the game where Vauclair doesn't end up dead, at least.

APEX is another story; I'd say that from the purposes of canon it most likely was taken out. Otherwise, hundreds of deckers would have just up and died, as it had already begun it's rampage by the end of Dragonfall (Clockwork for sure, possibly Tolstoi as well; probably a whole hell of a lot more, including the team protagonist if they freed APEX but didn't give him control of the Panacea project).

All in all, a very few key events are (almost) impossible to include in the main storyline; the rest are pretty much all possibilities. Personally, I think this is a good thing.
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: DeathStrobe on <12-26-14/1317:19>
It is unlikely that the Clockwork of SRR is the Hobgoblin Rigger Technomancer-hater Clockwork that we all know and hate. Dragonfall takes place in 2054. Hobgoblin Clockwork is an ork metavarient, so assumably will live as long as your average ork of 40 years. We can assume that Clockwork of SRR is a seasoned runner, so probably in his 20's. We know Clockwork is still alive in 2076, 22 years after the events of SRR Dragonfall. So that'd make Clockwork in his 40's, and getting close to his death bed.

I believe Hobgoblin Clockwork's first appearance was in 2064, in Loose Alliances. So its possible that Hobgoblin Clockwork took over the Clockwork persona at this time.

But, there are ways to explain this other than having two Clockworks. Clockwork could have goblinized into a Hobgoblin which would leave him with his normal human lifespan. Its possible that Clockwork didn't die to APEX, but went deeper into the shadows, while APEX pretended to be him. This could also help explain his hatred of Technomancers, if he links AI's with Otaku and later to Technomancers. Since TM's/Otakus are clearly servants to AI's which almost killed him, he'd naturally be untrusting of them.
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: psycho835 on <12-26-14/1341:07>
It is unlikely that the Clockwork of SRR is the Hobgoblin Rigger Technomancer-hater Clockwork that we all know and hate. Dragonfall takes place in 2054. Hobgoblin Clockwork is an ork metavarient, so assumably will live as long as your average ork of 40 years. We can assume that Clockwork of SRR is a seasoned runner, so probably in his 20's. We know Clockwork is still alive in 2076, 22 years after the events of SRR Dragonfall. So that'd make Clockwork in his 40's, and getting close to his death bed.

I believe Hobgoblin Clockwork's first appearance was in 2064, in Loose Alliances. So its possible that Hobgoblin Clockwork took over the Clockwork persona at this time.

But, there are ways to explain this other than having two Clockworks. Clockwork could have goblinized into a Hobgoblin which would leave him with his normal human lifespan. Its possible that Clockwork didn't die to APEX, but went deeper into the shadows, while APEX pretended to be him. This could also help explain his hatred of Technomancers, if he links AI's with Otaku and later to Technomancers. Since TM's/Otakus are clearly servants to AI's which almost killed him, he'd naturally be untrusting of them.

While this neatly explains CW's prejudices, I think it's more likely that there were simply two people with the same handle - it's not like "Clockwork" is all that unique and the world is big. For all we know there could be dozens of Clockworks, and all of them never heard of each other or THE Clockwork.
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: farfromnice on <12-26-14/1435:25>
does someone knows why the Big D ask for an inoculation to a series of children in (what's the year) ?
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: psycho835 on <12-26-14/1530:55>
I think it was explained in "The Forever Drug", something to do with a longevity serum?
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: Reaver on <12-26-14/1802:06>
Can't remember. But it was covered in one of the novels. Basically a shadowrun destroyed the formula and serum before it could be delivered.

So what this serum was to actually do... no one knows for sure.
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: Sendaz on <12-26-14/2058:12>
For all we know there could be dozens of Clockworks, and all of them ever heard of each other or THE Clockwork.
So it's the Dread Pirate Clockwork then? :P
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: psycho835 on <12-26-14/2303:58>
For all we know there could be dozens of Clockworks, and all of them ever heard of each other or THE Clockwork.
So it's the Dread Pirate Clockwork then? :P

Can you imagine Kane's reaction to THAT?
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: Sendaz on <12-26-14/2323:24>
Kane: Inconceivable!!

What is strange is considering how mistrustful he is of AI/TMs, he still keeps around that feral, proto-sapient AI.

Maybe because it is basically animal level intelligence he can feel comfortable with it, but one wonders how does he actually know it isn't smarter than it lets on?












small spoiler below














And he is a bit more attached to it then he probably would ever willingly admit to anyone, as at one point in Dark Resonance it is revealed another AI is holding it by the short codes and using it as leverage over CW to ensure his cooperation. Whether out of affection or just because he considers it his 'property' would be a discussion for another day.
Title: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Post by: Reaver on <12-27-14/0000:25>
Well,

He has murdered and blown entire months of legwork over that 'pet' AI...