Shadowrun
Catalyst Game Labs => Errata => Topic started by: ScytheKnight on <07-01-15/1833:00>
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Gotta say, I'm getting tired of hearing "Ohh that'll be fixed in official errata" when there hasn't been one released since Street Grimoire!
Run Faster has major issues that have promised to be looked at in Errata... no ETA.
Data Trails, again major issues promised to be looked at in Errata, as well as a "Matrix FAQ" to deal with long standing issues... no ETA.
And now again, Chrome Flesh has issues, and again we're promised errata...
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Not to mention there are a number of fixes and clarifications for the core book that have yet to be addressed. A lot of stuff is addressed in the Missions FAQ but that really should not be considered official errata for the books. I really wish they would adopt a system similar to how they handle Battletech errata over here.
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Seems like they are more interested in just churning out material than fixing past mistakes and upping quality. It's all talk about cons, getting ready for cons, what happens at cons ...
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The Matrix FAQ has been kicked up to the next level for final approval and judgment. I don't know what the ETA is, but it's still alive.
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Would love to see errata or clarification on the two limits for First Aid (limited on hits by Mental Limit + MedKit rating, limited on boxes healed by First Aid skill, or to Medkit rating if untrained?).
Seems a bit odd that you need to have First Aid 4-6 (depending on Logic) before it's better than using a MedKit 6 with no skill.
Personally I think the second limit just isn't needed.
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Gotta say, I'm getting tired of hearing "Ohh that'll be fixed in official errata" when there hasn't been one released since Street Grimoire!
Run Faster has major issues that have promised to be looked at in Errata... no ETA.
Data Trails, again major issues promised to be looked at in Errata, as well as a "Matrix FAQ" to deal with long standing issues... no ETA.
And now again, Chrome Flesh has issues, and again we're promised errata...
It was taken out back and shot as well as anyone who was so foolish as to suggest Errata be released!
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The main issue with errata is the chokepoint problem; lots of people report stuff, a handful of people compile it, someone sends it in...and then we've got just one person who okays it. And things are just in limbo until that one person (who also wears a lot of other hats) can get around to reading over things, listening to the backstage arguments/questions/conversations/debates/suggestions, and putting out something official.
It's not an excuse, mind you, I'm just offering an explanation.
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Yeah but it gets REALLY frustrating looking at long standing issues and questions that keep coming back time and time again because of lack of errata and there's absolutely zero communication about when or if the next round of errata is coming out.
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The main issue with errata is the chokepoint problem; lots of people report stuff, a handful of people compile it, someone sends it in...and then we've got just one person who okays it. And things are just in limbo until that one person (who also wears a lot of other hats) can get around to reading over things, listening to the backstage arguments/questions/conversations/debates/suggestions, and putting out something official.
It's not an excuse, mind you, I'm just offering an explanation.
What beers does that person drink, and where can we send them to get them in the mood!
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Hi to all,
The Matrix FAQ has been kicked up to the next level for final approval and judgment. I don't know what the ETA is, but it's still alive.
Could you say something to FAQ or Errata for Run Faster, maybe with some refference to the thread "run faster errata" http://forums.shadowruntabletop.com/index.php?topic=19013.0
Best regards Max
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Hi to all,
The Matrix FAQ has been kicked up to the next level for final approval and judgment. I don't know what the ETA is, but it's still alive.
Could you say something to FAQ or Errata for Run Faster, maybe with some refference to the thread "run faster errata" http://forums.shadowruntabletop.com/index.php?topic=19013.0
Best regards Max
I'd love to, but I can't simply because I don't know. Pre-Data Trails, I was formulating a Matrix FAQ in my head simply because I knew one was needed. Then I got assigned to the project itself and it all came together, although the FAQ got pushed back to after DT's release for obvious reasons. I'm still pushing for/refining the Matrix FAQ because I feel invested in the Matrix side of things from my time with DT, but it's very much a pet project. I don't know what's happening in this regard from the RF side of things.
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The main issue with errata is the chokepoint problem; lots of people report stuff, a handful of people compile it, someone sends it in...and then we've got just one person who okays it. And things are just in limbo until that one person (who also wears a lot of other hats) can get around to reading over things, listening to the backstage arguments/questions/conversations/debates/suggestions, and putting out something official.
It's not an excuse, mind you, I'm just offering an explanation.
That's why I keep suggesting the Battletech solution. CGL already has a workable solution for generating errata that the Battletech team has been using for nearly a decade. By my count they have generated over 400 pages of fixes, clarifications and changes for the core rule books in that time frame.
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The main issue with errata is the chokepoint problem; lots of people report stuff, a handful of people compile it, someone sends it in...and then we've got just one person who okays it. And things are just in limbo until that one person (who also wears a lot of other hats) can get around to reading over things, listening to the backstage arguments/questions/conversations/debates/suggestions, and putting out something official.
It's not an excuse, mind you, I'm just offering an explanation.
That's why I keep suggesting the Battletech solution. CGL already has a workable solution for generating errata that the Battletech team has been using for nearly a decade. By my count they have generated over 400 pages of fixes, clarifications and changes for the core rule books in that time frame.
This ^^^^ except keep whoever did "A Time for War" far far far away! But the TT books are so amazingly handled by CGL, I don't understand the issues CGL is having with Battletech. Is it because Bills just loves Battletech & so it's important to him?
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I don't understand the issues CGL is having with Shadowrun. Is it because Bills just loves Battletech & so it's important to him?
there, fixed it for you.
And yes that would be my guess as well.
He put a second stringer on as the line editor for Shadowrun and it shows, but Bill doesn't care because he doesn't play the game. It's just $$ to him.
If there is a different explanation I would love to hear it!
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Mea culpas have been spoken, new Errata have been promised time and again - by now, I've given up on the whole Errata thing... We'll still play Shadowrun using 5th as a basis, though.
I'll acknowlege new stuff as it gets released for SR5 and discussed on the forums, but I won't buy new PDFs any longer. There is simply no point getting annoyed about cobbled-together rules anymore.
I'll take the German hard copy releases as inspiration, though. By the way, did you guys get the rules of high-velocity weapons in the meantime?
Otherwise, we'll play with what my group and I can piece together and make work at our tables. We'll answer the remaining questions ourselfs; there's simply no point in waiting for official clarifications that will not - can not - come. Be it spells with "Touch" vectors, the internal router, all the matrix questions and each and every other inconsistency. That seems to be the official SR5 RAI design philosophy, anyways.
This post is not - well, was not - intended as a rant, just as official closure, if you will. :-\
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So... it's been a month since the last post and there's still no news of anything.
Now don't get me wrong, I'm not saying there should have been something released by now.
But for fucks sake can you at least let us know that there IS really ANY errata being worked on?
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So... it's been a month since the last post and there's still no news of anything.
Now don't get me wrong, I'm not saying there should have been something released by now.
But for fucks sake can you at least let us know that there IS really ANY errata being worked on?
Errata was taken out back and shot in the head!!!
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All of the errata will be rolled into 6th edition and announced with the release of the 5E Rigger supplement sometime in 2016. :p
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Lol
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is it still funny if it's true?
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In a depressing kind of way, yeah.
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All of the errata will be rolled into 6th edition and announced with the release of the 5E Rigger supplement sometime in 2016. :p
Word
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Errata was taken out back and shot in the head!!!
was it possible for anybody to find some errata-pieces, maybe a leg, hand or something like .... :o or maybe the errata-zombi? Any little piece? :o
kind regards Max
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I pinged Jason H on this last week...it is on the radar. However, no specific time frames at the moment.
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I pinged Jason H on this last week...it is on the radar. However, no specific time frames at the moment.
Well I guess it's better than the nothing we've had since SG.
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Patience young grasshopper.
Some of us remember that 2013 was to be the ''Year of Shadowrun''. almost 2 and a half years later and we still have bugfixes for the main Core Rulebook. 2.5 years, and you're expecting official errattas for Data Trail and anything that came out THIS year? :P
In all brutal honesty though, better laugh than get angry about it, otherwise you're in for a long, miserable time.
Better enjoy what is, than whats not. Shadowrun is a complex system that will FORCE you to make calls. Make sure YOU know this. Make sure your GROUP knows it. From the get go.
I've grown very cynical towards the current line of product, and i've vowed not to give cgl a single dime for improper products. And i haven't since RUn Faster. From what i read, im missing out on a lot of things i couldn't use correctly anyway. Hardly a loss. Lots of game time is devoted to rule consulting. Improper editing makes this particularly painful, so i'd rather just not have that weight in on my games. BUT i keep an eye out and don't dismiss the possibility of encouraging the company if it steps up its game. I'm just surprised to see such amateurish mistakes from both a long standing rpg company AND a long standing franchise in itself. As for the product themselves, you get what you pay for, and can demand nothing more. Hope sure, but don't hold your breath.
And while talent and passion is evident on many levels..someone, somewhere, is either dropping the ball , or doesn't care enough. Clogged bureaucracy aside, 2 years and a half of the same old, same old, doesn't show bottlenecking but poor planning. Or perhaps high ego/trust issues that doesnt allow for proper delegation at the bottlenecking level.
BUT nonetheless, SR5 is a magical, complex, twisted fickle but wonderful thing. I still like it a lot. I WISH i could love it. Take it in stride, and make sure your group is aware of its downfall, otherwise its ALL you'll see. But its filled with AWESOMENESS, crunchwise as well as fluffwise. Just be ready for the need to 'wing it. Those that can't handle it should reconsider tabletop, free-ranging rpgs to be honest and go play Shadowrun Retuns, Dragonfall, and HK.
Bitterness won't make the errattas come out faster. Pressure will only bring anger to the people in place, making them LESS interested in actually pushing it forward, and offers no solutions. How many people have been suggested to contact CGL? How many people have done so. We should all either accept the current state as we do not care enough to take ACTIONS towards fixing it, OR take said actions towards a resolution. Frustration as an indication of a problem is great and necessary. Holding on to that frustration and holding others to your expectation of what is or should be, no matter how common sensed you figure it is? Bad for your qi , omae.Bad for your qi. ;)
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So, how's it going everyone? :P
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I pinged Jason H on this last week...it is on the radar. However, no specific time frames at the moment.
Enough time passes and statements like "it is on the radar" lose all meaning. They can't even be bothered to make an official statement on why they can't be bothered to release errata for the books they can't be bothered to edit well. :~(
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8 months since that "on the radar" post is a long time. :'(
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There was supposed to be a Street Grimoire errata and re-print last month... so far it hasn't materialized, nor have there been any updates.
I just... I just don't understand why this is so hard. Yes, there are limitations put in place as a small company. But at the same time this is the PR equivalent of seppuku, it's slowly destroying the Shadowrun brand as each new book comes out and none of the glaring and long-standing errors are fixed.
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There was supposed to be a Street Grimoire errata and re-print last month... so far it hasn't materialized, nor have there been any updates.
I just... I just don't understand why this is so hard. Yes, there are limitations put in place as a small company. But at the same time this is the PR equivalent of seppuku, it's slowly destroying the Shadowrun brand as each new book comes out and none of the glaring and long-standing errors are fixed.
As best I can tell from reading all the semi-official responses to the assorted threads it's "'cause, reasons." And that we'd totally understand if we knew the reasons, but we can't be told them. "Cause, reasons."
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I've red a lot of those reasons... and to an extent they are fairly good, from a short term perspective.
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At this point I've sworn off buying any new Shadowrun game products until they fix what's already released. If they won't listen to our voices, they can listen to our wallets.
The main reason I'm still around here is because the forum is a better place to get information than their abysmal 'official' site and because I enjoy discussing the thematic aspects of Shadowrun. It also gives me a chance to listen to the writers and some of the other staff, which is nice. If they're active here, they're obviously folks who care about the community and game and try to lend us mere customers a hand.
I'll never lose my love for Shadowrun, but Catalyst is definitely not helping the setting/system.
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After this much time without corrections or errata, I can only hope the Shadowrun IP gets sold/leased to another company.
This is particularly saddening after I look at the stack of 5th edition (and 4th as well) books that I and others at my table have bought. Some of the improvements from the 4th and 5th editions are really good ideas. Unfortunately they are hamstrung by poor editing and an apparent lack of communication between the writers.
As a consumer (the guy who pays the money), I am not concerned with the "reasons" the product I purchased does not meet my needs. It has been almost a year, and Catalyst still keeps cranking out new filler material without correcting the problems with what they have already released. Nor have they released any actual information on what/when/how they are going to fix things.
This is not a good way to earn customer loyalty.
I wish the individual writers, logistics folks, marketing, and other team members the best of luck. But as things stand, both I and my wallet will be waiting until a 6th (or 7th if need be) edition gets produced by a company that has their act together.
In the mean time, we'll just stick with 3rd edition and other game systems.
Good luck y'all.
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What boggles my mind is how unnecessary it is. All the ill will and hard feeling created by the lack of Errata could be immediately countered by just investing a little bit of time. It doesn't even matter whose time, anyone can do it, the end product just has to be officially blessed by Catalyst. The main questions are already all catalogued right here in this forum, and a lot of them even have answers from the writers, but they're not "official".
Look at Games Workshop, the old Luddite grandpa of the tabletop world. They finally started producing FAQs/Errata again, on Facebook of all places, and it's been met with over a month of continued good press and player excitement. What did it take to do that? Virtually nothing. First, solicit questions from the players. Catalyst has already done that right here. Second, answer the questions. It doesn't matter what the answer is, only that the answer exists. Third, release the answers. They're making pretty little images to do that, but that's unnecessary. A word doc converted to a PDF would be sufficient.
I'm 100% sure if Catalyst offered, players on this forum would do every one of those steps except answer the questions that haven't been answered yet (compile the questions, compile the answers, create a pdf) and all Catalyst would have to do is say "Please do this" and then do their part of answering the remaining questions and releasing the resulting PDF officially. But no, cause reasons. I guess it doesn't have a direct impact on the bottom line like a new (poorly edited) release does. And the crazy thing is, people would forgive the poor editing if they'd just bother to release fixes with some semblance of timeliness.
It just doesn't make sense. :( Maybe they'll sell/lose the license soon, but I won't hold my breath.
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There are a lot of things that can be forgiven... a total disregard for communication is NOT one of them.
Just recently I finally received a Grand Tour edition of Incredible Expeditions from one of my first Kickstarters, this special edition was finally shipped over a year after the standard edition went on sale publicly, and over two years after the Kickstarter finished. Now while the delay was forgivable, the total lack of communication from the creator wasn't, the end result is pretty much a complete trashing of their reputation. It had gone on for so long that she was being reported to Kickstarter for fraud, and I seriously doubt she could ever attempt another crowd funding project as many people, myself included, would not hesitate to recount the horror story we had getting our games.
This is the same thing, the flat out refusal to communicate on the issue of official errata is causing irreparable damage to the reputation of CGL in terms of the Shadowrun brand. I really, REALLY love this setting and game... but my patience is exhausted, we where promised an errata and re-release of Street Grimoire last month and not only hasn't this happened but there's no word as to why and when we might expect it now.
Sooner or later, people are going to stop buying products. I'm not there yet.
But I'm starting to consider it.
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It's pretty clear from the ongoing lack of errata, zero communication and now the alternate setting and alternate rulesets for 5e that Catalyst is only interested in things that make them $$ now damn the fans and customers if they don't give them more money.
If they could get $50 each from us for errata they would do it in a hearbeat.
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Don't give them any ideas.
Next they might come up with an online service you have to pay a monthly subscription to in order to get any update, PR or Errata, at all.
But all in all you are right; they churn out unsupervised "stuff" with the SR tag hurriedly smacked on it because the fans will buy anything carrying the name. ... Like me :/
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This is why I shell out for Hero Lab.
Between that, these forums, and PiXeL01's compiled lists, I don't need the books.
BTW, thanks again to PiXeL01 for the hard work.
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Do you want Hero Lab shut down? Cause that's how you get Hero Lab shut down.
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Irn0rchid: you, ScytheKnight, and Oben have laid out good reasons to not buy another book.
My feeling is I don't have a problem if a book has basic errors.
I've bought games that had a ton of bugs out of the box.
If the bugs get reasonably patched, I'm inclined to let it go.
With DLC, I would expect the same level of support.
Catalyst was good for the first couple of books when it came to errata, then decided it didn't need to care.
Hero Lab acts like a semi patch with continued official support from Catalyst.
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It's pretty clear from the ongoing lack of errata, zero communication and now the alternate setting and alternate rulesets for 5e that Catalyst is only interested in things that make them $$ now damn the fans and customers if they don't give them more money.
If they could get $50 each from us for errata they would do it in a hearbeat.
I disagree with this. Catalyst also puts out Battletech and Alpha Strike in addition to other games. Some have failed. Leviathans, for example, has been a fail at least so far but they were pretty up front with what kinds of issues they were having and a lot were out of their direct control or out of their price range. I enjoyed the first edition and if they ever figure out their production issues and get it going again I'll be happy to buy the second edition. Leviathans was also their own brand so they weren't paying anyone for the license.
Now Battletech, on the other hand, has been pretty successful, IMHO. Some will say it's different because it is "just" a table top game. I will do my best not to look condescendingly at those of you who do so but no promises. I can tell you that Battletech is as big a game with as much fluff if not more than any Shadowrun book. Yet they manage to put out more than 400 pages of errata over the last 10 years or so. They just did a new release of errata for most of the core rule books just this week.
The only real difference between the two products is who is in charge. You have a Shadowrun dev team and a Battletech dev team and they obviously have two very different standards of quality for their respective products. Now what the reason for that may be is completely open to speculation unless you have access to the inner council of each team.
Maybe they are saving all their errata for the 30th anniversary edition to be released in three years or so. ;D
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About Catalyst Game Labs Catalyst Game Labs is dedicated to producing high quality gaming products that mesh sophisticated game mechanics with dynamic universes, presented in a form that allows both beginning players and long-time veterans to easily pick up our games. Catalyst Game Labs is an imprint of InMediaRes Productions, LLC, which specializes in electronic publishing of professional fiction. This allows Catalyst to participate in a synergy that melds printed gaming product with all the benefits of an electronic interface and community, creating a whole-package experience for any type of player.
link (http://"http://www.catalystgamelabs.com/2008/06/27/catalyst-game-labs-bring-classic-battletech-shadowrun-and-mechwarrior-novels-back-to-bookstores/")
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About Catalyst Game Labs Catalyst Game Labs is dedicated to producing high quality gaming products that mesh sophisticated game mechanics with dynamic universes, presented in a form that allows both beginning players and long-time veterans to easily pick up our games. Catalyst Game Labs is an imprint of InMediaRes Productions, LLC, which specializes in electronic publishing of professional fiction. This allows Catalyst to participate in a synergy that melds printed gaming product with all the benefits of an electronic interface and community, creating a whole-package experience for any type of player.
link (http://"http://www.catalystgamelabs.com/2008/06/27/catalyst-game-labs-bring-classic-battletech-shadowrun-and-mechwarrior-novels-back-to-bookstores/")
Which still applies to Catalyst's Battletech products, as Jim stated previously. Not so much for Shadowrun, unfortunately.
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To be honest, 5E has been one long stream of disappointments. I stopped buying the Missions and other adventures entirely, and only now get the occasional book to keep up with the lore. At this point, the only way I can see to fix 5E is to just simply let it die and have 6E come out, with something closer to 4E's rules.
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To be honest, 5E has been one long stream of disappointments.
I wouldn't go that far, personally, and I've thoroughly enjoyed the Season 5 and 6 Missions. But, and this is a big one for me, the lack of Errata after several official statements to the effect of "It's coming" is inexcusable, and not helped by the continued push to produce more paid content. I've stopped buying books other than Missions until Errata that fixes the core rule books issues is released, personally.
At this point, the only way I can see to fix 5E is to just simply let it die and have 6E come out, with something closer to 4E's rules.
I for one really hope they don't do this; 5th works well enough, more so than 4th in my opinion. Sure, there are internal inconsistencies particular, in my opinion, around the Matrix, but nothing that can't be fixed. Scrapping the whole thing and starting over is a no-starter for me; I also have zero faith that Catalyst is the company to do this, as evidenced by the shameless copy-paste from prior editions that are already prolific in 5th.
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To be honest, 5E has been one long stream of disappointments.
I wouldn't go that far, personally, and I've thoroughly enjoyed the Season 5 and 6 Missions. But, and this is a big one for me, the lack of Errata after several official statements to the effect of "It's coming" is inexcusable, and not helped by the continued push to produce more paid content. I've stopped buying books other than Missions until Errata that fixes the core rule books issues is released, personally.
The thing is though that Missions has had to go out of its way to patch things which normally aren't working in the regular rules, which is why it's generally enjoyable in 5th edition. Kudos to the Missions group for working hard to fix what's broken so that it can be used in Missions games, but they shouldn't have had to do so to this extent. Even then, there's only so much the Missions team has been able to do.
Missions games were the only Shadowrun games I could get in this area, and I was happy with that, but due to the state of the rules there hasn't been a Missions game in this area since November of 2014. Last month was the annual gaming convention held locally, which was in its third year, and it's the first year it didn't have at least one Shadowrun Missions game listed. No one, including the GMs, want the hassle anymore.
The deal with the errata has gone beyond ridiculous now; it was a problem in SR4, SR4A, and now 5th. First we were told that it takes time because they have to discuss errata changes and then test them out to see if the changes are balanced. Over three years of testing for some of the errata for the original books? Really? Then we were told that they didn't have the time/resources/whatever to put the errata in a nice pdf layout yet. Come on now, most of us, if not all by this point, would be happy for a plain text wordpad/notepad document with errata.
At this point, the only way I can see to fix 5E is to just simply let it die and have 6E come out, with something closer to 4E's rules.
I for one really hope they don't do this; 5th works well enough, more so than 4th in my opinion. Sure, there are internal inconsistencies particular, in my opinion, around the Matrix, but nothing that can't be fixed.
At the very core of 5th, I like what they were trying to do. I like the priority tables being available again, although I wish it was a bit closer to the last version of it. I also like the alternate creation methods being available, especially the life modules (although if you're going to have life modules or something similar, that really need to come out in the second book at the latest so that all archetypes can benefit in the following rules expansion books. I like the idea of limits. I liked the thought that RCCs and especially cyberdecks were going to have value again, until rules came out that largely erased that thought.
Scrapping the whole thing and starting over is a no-starter for me; I also have zero faith that Catalyst is the company to do this, as evidenced by the shameless copy-paste from prior editions that are already prolific in 5th.
I would change the second part of that to "I also have zero faith that Catalyst's Shadowrun employees is the team to do this..." As has been talked about a lot in these forums, Catalyst's Battletech team doesn't seem to have these issues. When problems arise with their rules, they work with the players to get errata turned out. Just to clarify though: When I spoke of the Shadowrun team I am not talking about the freelancers (those people have gone above and beyond in trying to help out, in my opinion), but rather the editors and line developer (and whomever else might be be involved above the Freelancer level).
I believe I mentioned once before that I was thinking of abandoning Shadowrun, except for the novels and enhanced fiction; over the last few weeks I've pretty much committed to that idea. I may pick up the Tir book (pdf only, so that it'll be updated when it eventually does get errata), and I will get the Tarot deck (if for no other reason than the incredible art), but other than the novels and enhanced fiction I'm pretty much giving up on Shadowrun finally. I'll get my cyberpunk fix via novels, video games, and other systems. :-\
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It's very clear that the line manager for Srun is, to put it mildly, not very good.
And that Catalyst has fallen and can't get up/ doesn't care to.
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What amazes me is that the line editor is still the line editor. How much ill will and hard feelings do you have to engender in the community before getting fired/demoted?
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To be honest, 5E has been one long stream of disappointments. I stopped buying the Missions and other adventures entirely, and only now get the occasional book to keep up with the lore. At this point, the only way I can see to fix 5E is to just simply let it die and have 6E come out, with something closer to 4E's rules.
4th + (5th * 2/5) = 6th ;D
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It's very clear that the line manager for Srun is, to put it mildly, not very good.
And that the Shadowrun line has fallen and can't get up/ doesn't care to.
Fixed that last bit for you! From everything I've been able to tell, the Battletech line seems to be doing well. I could be wrong, as I have no idea what their financials are like, but at least Battletech gets the support it needs in the form of errata and processes that appear to be working decently. Shadowrun not so much.
The thing that Catalyst as a whole needs to take flak for (and deservedly so) is the continued horrid state of the BattleCorps/BattleShop's terrible track record with shipping physical copies of books. I get that bad things happened in the past, and someone quit, but years later we shouldn't still be seeing people coming to the forums trying to find out what happened to their order six months, a year, or even longer after the physical book came out. There's really no excuse anymore for that to be a continued problem.
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What amazes me is that the line editor is still the line editor. How much ill will and hard feelings do you have to engender in the community before getting fired/demoted?
You are assuming he can be fired/demoted/whatever. It all really depends on his relationship to the company; for all we know he could be part owner or have some contractual legalese making it hard or nearly impossible to do so. Then again it could very well be (as others have stated in the past) that Catalyst's management really only cares about Battletech. /shrug ???
Whatever the case might be, I don't foresee any needed changes happening in any reasonable time frame, if at all, and I can't really justify spending money on rulebooks I can't even use due to no one wanting to play Shadowrun anymore because of the state it's been in for years. Godspeed to those that are willing to stick it out and can still get games, but there are too many good games out there vying for my money that I can get to play games with.
I've walked away from other games which had settings I absolutely loved, such as Rifts, because I couldn't stand the way the company was run (although Savage Worlds is coming out with its own version of Rifts which I will probably try out). Wondering why someone's still employed doesn't really do much to help yourself, all you can do is ask yourself: "Is this still worth my time and money?"
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What happened to official Errata?
Nothing?
Terrible joke, and likely inaccurate, I know. ;D
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The planned errata was errata'd out of the product schedule
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What amazes me is that the line editor is still the line editor. How much ill will and hard feelings do you have to engender in the community before getting fired/demoted?
You are assuming he can be fired/demoted/whatever. It all really depends on his relationship to the company; for all we know he could be part owner or have some contractual legalese making it hard or nearly impossible to do so. Then again it could very well be (as others have stated in the past) that Catalyst's management really only cares about Battletech. /shrug ???
I was curious, so I did some quick looking. He was apparently hired on the spot at Gen Con in 2009. He might have some ownership stake or something now, but it doesn't seem like he did originally. Prior to that he'd done some freelance writing and editing, this is his first 'line editor' gig. Although you'd think after 6+ years he'd figure it out. :P "I didn’t have a plan in place for Fifth Edition four years ago—in fact, I generally threatened to punch anyone who said the words “Fifth Edition” to me until I got a better understanding of what it meant to be line developer. "
Amusingly, when Catalyst Labs was formed by In Media Res to handle Shadowrun and Battletech, their press release had this to say: "InMediaRes Productions, LLC, has dedicated itself to immediately addressing recent problems, such as missed release dates. The formation of Catalyst Game Labs, which will focus on operations and production, is a necessary first step." As well as "Catalyst Game Labs will quickly demonstrate our dedication to providing high quality products ”licensed and original”in a timely manner to the community." On May 17, 2007. Bang up job!
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This pretty much says it all.
I was curious, so I did some quick looking. He was apparently hired on the spot at Gen Con in 2009.
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Jason was already on board at the time of the Great Unpleasantness, as I recall.
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I was curious, so I did some quick looking. He was apparently hired on the spot at Gen Con in 2009. He might have some ownership stake or something now, but it doesn't seem like he did originally. Prior to that he'd done some freelance writing and editing, this is his first 'line editor' gig. Although you'd think after 6+ years he'd figure it out. :P "I didn’t have a plan in place for Fifth Edition four years ago—in fact, I generally threatened to punch anyone who said the words “Fifth Edition” to me until I got a better understanding of what it meant to be line developer. "
Amusingly, when Catalyst Labs was formed by In Media Res to handle Shadowrun and Battletech, their press release had this to say: "InMediaRes Productions, LLC, has dedicated itself to immediately addressing recent problems, such as missed release dates. The formation of Catalyst Game Labs, which will focus on operations and production, is a necessary first step." As well as "Catalyst Game Labs will quickly demonstrate our dedication to providing high quality products ”licensed and original”in a timely manner to the community." On May 17, 2007. Bang up job!
To be fair, there were massive issues that popped up with all of the troubles just a couple of years after that 2007 mission statement. There were a lot of statements made when it happened, from all sides, but since I had no inside knowledge I've tried to give them the benefit of the doubt on it. Something got screwed up royally, and it screwed up everything else for quite some time afterwards.
As I recall, that was about the time that the Battleshop went down the toilet; from what I saw on the subject, it was understandable why that happened. I am less sure if there's been another batch of issues with the Battleshop a couple years ago, or if it's still that same issue lingering on. That it is still a major problem this much later is troubling. Likewise with the errata issue. From what I've seen posted, vanilla SR4 had issues with errata (came out in 2005), SR4A (when I came back to the game) came out in 2009 and had issues with getting errata, and then 2013 saw the release of SR5 which continues the errata problems.
People may want to, but you really can't count any vanilla SR4 errata problems against the current team, even if there are people working on the line now from back before the troubles. The company got hammered hard, and it's frankly a miracle that it continued on. I was even willing to overlook errata issues with SR5 for quite some time, as I figured that since it was trying out a new(ish) system it might take some time to shake out the bugs. Here we are a couple months shy of the three year mark for the SR5 core rulebook, and it's still an issue. Except for the German edition, apparently.
That's the real kick in the pants; Pegasus gets errata feedback from Catalyst, and can apparently put out errata. At first I just shrugged it off and thought that they got to do their own thing. Unfortunately, information from a recent post says that Pegasus still needs to get the OK from Catalyst to make changes. If so, then that means that Pegasus is sending in their errata changes to someone with some kind of authority at Catalyst, that person (or someone above them) is eventually green-lighting the changes, and then Pegasus puts out the errata.
Why is it so hard to get a text document in English for these approved changes from Pegasus, have Catalysts editors and line developer (or whomever green lights errata) give it a quick look over to make sure it contains the changes previously discussed, and then release that as errata for the English version? Someone, somewhere is getting assigned to produce the original errata. Someone at Catalyst is looking it over and saying yes or no. Someone at Pegasus then is taking the approved errata and updating the German edition.
Is the relationship between Catalyst and Pegasus so toxic that Pegasus would be unwilling to comply if Catalyst asked them to send a text document with the approved errata changes? For that matter, why aren't these approved changes being saved on the Catalyst side of things? At some point during the process they have to be in English, so that Catalyst can look them over and approve them. Is no one keeping a record of these?
Jason was already on board at the time of the Great Unpleasantness, as I recall.
I believe that's correct. From what I recall of articles concerning that mess, his name was mentioned. I think that was around 2010(ish) when that all blew up?
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Why is it so hard to get a text document in English for these approved changes from Pegasus, have Catalysts editors and line developer (or whomever green lights errata) give it a quick look over to make sure it contains the changes previously discussed, and then release that as errata for the English version? Someone, somewhere is getting assigned to produce the original errata. Someone at Catalyst is looking it over and saying yes or no. Someone at Pegasus then is taking the approved errata and updating the German edition.
That's something I'm working on, actually.
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Why is it so hard to get a text document in English for these approved changes from Pegasus, have Catalysts editors and line developer (or whomever green lights errata) give it a quick look over to make sure it contains the changes previously discussed, and then release that as errata for the English version? Someone, somewhere is getting assigned to produce the original errata. Someone at Catalyst is looking it over and saying yes or no. Someone at Pegasus then is taking the approved errata and updating the German edition.
That's something I'm working on, actually.
I saw that after I had made that last rather lengthy post of mine! Dang my slow typing (or perhaps not; I think we may have posted around the same time)! Still this is very, very good news! Hopefully I there will eventually be Shadowrun games in this area again! For those that missed it, see here: http://forums.shadowruntabletop.com/index.php?topic=24481.new#new (http://forums.shadowruntabletop.com/index.php?topic=24481.new#new)
The announcement does make what I was asking for largely irrelevant now, but I'm very ok with that as I think this is going to be far better for the line. I would be doing the 'happy dance' now, except I have no dancing skills. None. Not even large quantities of alcohol can convince me otherwise (seriously, it's that terrible). :-[