[Usda Beph]

Just thinking... does an invisible target cast a shadow? I heard it ruled both ways!

[Chaotic Insane]

Blind firing to me was also just firing and not giving a damn what, or if, you hit. Under the same classification as spray-n-pray and just firing from the hip wildly... Which anyone that has seen me play a shooter is usually my first policy. I think Code may have already done a couple just roll his gun to the side and pull the trigger for S&Gs because there might have been baddies off to the left of him somewhere.

I guess it'd be GMs call what modifiers apply judging on what kind of blind firing it is?

[Medicineman]

Just thinking... does an invisible target cast a shadow? I heard it ruled both ways!

It does ,but it isn't noticed.
Invisibility is an Illusion ! (not " bending the Light around the Subject", or it must/should be considered a Combat Spelll )

with an illusionary Dance
Medicineman

[Usda Beph]

Just thinking... does an invisible target cast a shadow? I heard it ruled both ways!

It does ,but it isn't noticed.
Invisibility is an Illusion ! (not " bending the Light around the Subject", or it must/should be considered a Combat Spelll )

with an illusionary Dance
Medicineman

Possibility of a Perception roll to see through the illusion?

[Chaotic Insane]

Magic. Are you really trying to bring physics into magic? Go apologize to that poor catgirl's family right now.

[Usda Beph]

Magic. Are you really trying to bring physics into magic? Go apologize to that poor catgirl's family right now.

No such thing, I'm fishing for information on spell use in the Run!

[Dakka]

You use Intuition to see though the illusion not a skill.  Like every other spell its an opposed roll, the rolls are just made very far apart.  Spellcasting + Magic vs Intuition (+counterspelling).  If you fail that you are unable to see the target.  If he does something like open a door or knock over a table you could Blind Fire at him.

[Usda Beph]

Thank you. Hey? WHere'd you go?

[Welshman]

Invisibility is like Hitchhiker Guide SEP field. It is not that you can't be seen (the robotic camera sees you) it is that you convince other peoples minds to not look at you.

[inca1980]

One factor everyone is forgetting is that Blind Fire is also an Firearms + Intuition test, not Firearms + Agility so you're also using your hearing and extrapolation from indirect knowledge of where someone is no matter if he's behind terrain or the attacker got blinded.  But yes, it only makes sense that visibility modifiers don't stack with blind fire because if you look at visibility modifiers, blind fire is basically an option on that chart, it's just called full darkness, but it's -6 just like blind fire so blind fire is essentially a type of visibility modifier.....except I would use Firearms + Intuition for full darkness as well.

[Dakka]

Insinuating that Blind Fire and Total Darkness are the same is where we got into trouble in the first place, should Thermographic characters be able to blind fire through a wall at -3 instead of 6?  I think not.  Thinking of them as two totally separate entities is better.

[inca1980]

So what would you use for full darkness, Firearms+Agility or Firearms+Intuition like with blindfire?

[Bradd]

Hm, I guess I would use Blind Fire (skill + Intuition) whenever you can't see the target, whether it's from total darkness, thermal smoke, or whatever. In those cases, the visibility table isn't relevant. However, it still matters for some things, like Perception tests.

[voydangel]

...Oh and while shooting blind You use INT instead of AGI)

with a blind Dance
Medicineman

Where is that stated? or is that your house rule?

[Qemuel]

...Oh and while shooting blind You use INT instead of AGI)

with a blind Dance
Medicineman

Where is that stated? or is that your house rule?

p. 150 SR4a.  applies to targets completely obscured by cover, total darkness, or undetectable by sight to the character, but whose location can be guessed at.  The INT ruling is on p. 152.