[TranKirsaKali]

The target of a mana based spell gets to roll their willpower to resist the spell.  If it is a body based spell like power bolt they get to roll their body to resist the spell.  That is why mages have to chose their spells well.  If I am going after a street sam I will most likely roll a willpower resisted spell but if I am going against an awakened I will more likely throw a body or physical based spell.

[TranKirsaKali]

THAT is something I didn't have in mind, right away, Wren.  Poop.

   I know there's the option to have 'optical' Magnification in the goggles/glasses that the spellcasters can benefit from, but I hadn't thought at ALL about the lowlight/thermo business.

   I guess that's why the mage should have a spirit buddy nearby.  To hold the flashlight, of course.

Mage site goggles 

That is all you need for targeting in a lot of areas.  The nice goggles help you find all kinds of targets.

[TranKirsaKali]

@Lansdren: Note that you can get line of sight from reflective surfaces, even if you can't directly see your target. And you can optionally target using other senses, although your GM may require an appropriate perception test.

Sorry no, you can not use reflections for spell casting.  You must see it with your own eyes.  That is why there are mage site goggles.  To over come that pesky you must see things with your own eyes to target them.

[TranKirsaKali]

So, let me get this right.  Nearly the entire game has two sets of tests, (1) Once to hit, (2) then to soak damage.  Except Mages with Direct spells.   Does something seem wrong here?

Your thinking about this wrong.  They do essentially get a soak, they do not get armor to resist before the soak.  Technically the spell is bypassing the armor.  That is why when you are using a physical spell you are using your body to resist/soak the damage and when a mana spell is used you use your willpower to resist/soak the damage.

This feels way overpowered to me.  I've read some of the post/comments justify this power, and I don't buy it.  I can build a Mage to squeeze a trigger just as well, and as fast as a Sammy.  If you also consider Power Foci, and Overchannelling, Direct combat spells become very powerful, veryfast.  

Now lets add the ability to summon high powered allies as a complex action.  Assensing, astral projection, banishing, counterspelling, watchers, foci, ect...

I'm just saying, it doesn't seem very well balanced.  Are there any mundane weapons that only non-magic types can use that have No damage soak rolls?

I'm not trying to hate on the mage, they and physical adept are my favorite.  It just feels way over powered to me, and honestly, ruins the game for me as a GM.

Yes casters are very powerful.  However they are also limited.  They for the most part go slow unless they lowered their essence with some cyber or learned the spell increased reflexes.  And even with increased reflexes, unless you have a sustaining foccus of at least rating 3 you are losing as many or more dice to hold the spell than you gain.  But this is why in my opinion a GM should never allow more than one caster in their game.  Heck I know this was a long time ago, but second edition even point blank told you as a GM you should not have more than one caster in the game.


And as for drones, one not my casters job to deal with them, my overwatching hacker should have taken them out before I could be targeted. And 2 that is what shatter drone is for.  Bye Bye drone baby!

[FastJack]

What Kali said +1.

The resist tests are there to see if they are affected by the spell. When you're hitting a 10' tall troll with a Force 6 Lightning bolt, a prodigy starting mage gets 6 (Magic) + 7 (Spellcasting) = 13 dice against the Troll's unaugmented 10 Body dice. The only way the troll is going down in one shot is if you get 7+ net hits (to fill his 13 boxes on his condition monitor). If he doesn't go down, you've got to resist 6 drain and have a very pissed off troll in front of you. And he goes next.

[Bradd]

For grenades, the FAQ recommends that if you're throwing a grenade near people, then (one of) the people gets a dodge to determine scatter. Presumably, they can bat it away, take cover, whatever. Area indirect spells should use something similar.

[FastJack]

For grenades, the FAQ recommends that if you're throwing a grenade near people, then (one of) the people gets a dodge to determine scatter. Presumably, they can bat it away, take cover, whatever. Area indirect spells should use something similar.

How? Magic travels through the Astral. If you're a mage, you have Counterspell to add to your Body/Willpower resistance, but if you're mundane, your just out of luck. If the spell is Indirect or a Ritual Spell, the target does get a Reaction check against the spell. But if the spell is direct, the magic manifests immediately on your aura. There's nothing coming to you for you to avoid.

[Mäx]

Sorry no, you can not use reflections for spell casting.

Yes you can, the following sentence is from SR4A page 183
"Line of sight can even be established using reflective surfaces and through
transparent objects, and is subject to normal visibility and lighting
modifiers"

[KarmaInferno]

@Lansdren: Note that you can get line of sight from reflective surfaces, even if you can't directly see your target. And you can optionally target using other senses, although your GM may require an appropriate perception test.

Sorry no, you can not use reflections for spell casting.  You must see it with your own eyes.  That is why there are mage site goggles.  To over come that pesky you must see things with your own eyes to target them.

Even aside from the fact that the rules specifically state you can use reflective surfaces to target, your statement makes no logical sense.

Mage Sight systems ARE mirrors.

Mage sight cable is nothing more than a fiber optic cable wrapped in a myomer sheath that lets the operator move the cable around remotely.

Optic cable is nothing more than a mirror wrapped around a optically clear strand. Seriously, it transmits light by bouncing it back and forth along the mirrored walls, down the length of the cable.



-k

[Angelone]

You haven't lived until you trick a mage into targeting himself through his own goggles... Good times.

[The_Gun_Nut]

<snip>

Optic cable is nothing more than a mirror wrapped around a optically clear strand. Seriously, it transmits light by bouncing it back and forth along the mirrored walls, down the length of the cable.



-k

Fiber optics (99.99% I'd say) do not use a mirrored sheath around the cable.  It doesn't need to, as the optical properties of the cable allow the photons to "bounce" down the length of the cable.  No mirrors are involved.

You are, however, still correct regarding their function with direct combat spells.

Mirrors or reflections (natural reflections) work for spell targetting because the reflection occurs both physically and on the astral plane.  Which is what mages use to target spells, a brief astral glimpse "syncrhonizes" the mages and the target's auras and the spell leaps between them like an electric charge, taking the shortest path to "ground," as it were.

[KarmaInferno]

I was referring more to the effect of the light bouncing down the cable, which most easily explained as like a mirror.

I know how they're constructed. Used to do business with folks from Corning's fiber division.   




-k

[Bradd]

For grenades, the FAQ recommends that if you're throwing a grenade near people, then (one of) the people gets a dodge to determine scatter. Presumably, they can bat it away, take cover, whatever. Area indirect spells should use something similar.

How? Magic travels through the Astral. If you're a mage, you have Counterspell to add to your Body/Willpower resistance, but if you're mundane, your just out of luck. If the spell is Indirect or a Ritual Spell, the target does get a Reaction check against the spell. But if the spell is direct, the magic manifests immediately on your aura. There's nothing coming to you for you to avoid.

Note that I'm talking about indirect area spells. Those need to allow some kind of dodge roll, if nothing else for the counterspelling rules to work properly.

[The_Gun_Nut]

I was referring more to the effect of the light bouncing down the cable, which most easily explained as like a mirror.

I know how they're constructed. Used to do business with folks from Corning's fiber division.   




-k

No problem.  I just wanted to clarify for folks.  Chemistry/Physics major (31 hours left to go).

[FastJack]

For grenades, the FAQ recommends that if you're throwing a grenade near people, then (one of) the people gets a dodge to determine scatter. Presumably, they can bat it away, take cover, whatever. Area indirect spells should use something similar.

How? Magic travels through the Astral. If you're a mage, you have Counterspell to add to your Body/Willpower resistance, but if you're mundane, your just out of luck. If the spell is Indirect or a Ritual Spell, the target does get a Reaction check against the spell. But if the spell is direct, the magic manifests immediately on your aura. There's nothing coming to you for you to avoid.

Note that I'm talking about indirect area spells. Those need to allow some kind of dodge roll, if nothing else for the counterspelling rules to work properly.

They do:

Indirect Combat Spells: Indirect Combat spells are treated like ranged combat attacks; the caster makes a Spellcasting + Magic Success Test versus the target’s Reaction.