[Wren]

Confusion on direct damage spell mechanics like manabolt for example...

My understanding of the resolving a manabolt attach are as follows:

Roll Spellcasting + Magic (capped for force) vs. targets willpower + counterspelling to resist the spell.
Damage is force of the spell + net hits. (Force 5 + 2 net hits would be 7P)
Target shades in the damage and has a bad day....

There is a disagreement amoung my group as to whether the target gets to soak the damage. I would think not, the major advantage of the direct damage spell being the fact that the initial test is a resistance test, hitting the target not being required like in ranged combat or with indirect spells...

[Critias]

There is a disagreement amoung my group as to whether the target gets to soak the damage. I would think not.

You are correct.  The Spell Resistance test is the closest they get to a damage soak.

[Wren]

Thank you for the reply. If there is one thing wrong with the Shadowrun rules it is the leaving out of concise explanations of rules, almost like the asume you know what they are thinking....Is the 20th aniversary edition clearer does anybody know?

[FastJack]

I think it (SR4A) is, but I've also been playing for the 20 years, so I can usually "fill in the blanks" a lot more.

[KarmaInferno]

Thank you for the reply. If there is one thing wrong with the Shadowrun rules it is the leaving out of concise explanations of rules, almost like the asume you know what they are thinking....Is the 20th aniversary edition clearer does anybody know?

This has been brought up more than once. There are quite a few places where it's almost like the developer expects you to have played previous editions of Shadowrun before.

In theory, editors should be catching this kinda thing, but the RPG industry is notorious for not actually having many editors, often putting content directly into the books straight from the author's files.



-k

[Welshman]

Thank you for the reply. If there is one thing wrong with the Shadowrun rules it is the leaving out of concise explanations of rules, almost like the asume you know what they are thinking....Is the 20th aniversary edition clearer does anybody know?

This has been brought up more than once. There are quite a few places where it's almost like the developer expects you to have played previous editions of Shadowrun before.

In theory, editors should be catching this kinda thing, but the RPG industry is notorious for not actually having many editors, often putting content directly into the books straight from the author's files.

Catalyst does have editors, fact checkers and playtesters, but the problem is those people have been reviewing the game for as long or longer than the writers. No matter how hard you try, it can be easy to miss stuff you've been looking at for years.

[FastJack]

Okay, ENOUGH BASHING :

Direct Combat Spells: Handle these as an Opposed Test. The caster’s Spellcasting + Magic is resisted by the target’s Body (for physical spells) or Willpower (for mana spells), plus Counterspelling (if available). This Opposed Test is done in place of the standard Damage Resistance test. The caster needs at least one net hit for the spell to take effect. Direct Combat spells affect the target from the inside, so armor does not help with resistance.

[Glyph]

Also note that, while the basic SR4 book may lack that clarifying sentence, it does  have an example of spellcasting on page 174, which clearly shows that the ganger does not get a soak test after the initial opposed test.

[FoxBoy]

HM!!! ok... looks like I may have to re-evaluate direct combat spells now. I was under a different impression here.

[Lansdren]

One thing I would add is that the test is also modified by visual modifiers so a mage casting most likely wont get his full Spellcasting + Magic + focuses and such.

[Wren]

Especially given that Lowlight and thermographic augmentation from goggles or glasses can't overcome some of these penilties unless cyberware is used which would impact the essense and therefore the magic attributes of the mage.

[Juxtamon]

THAT is something I didn't have in mind, right away, Wren.  Poop.

   I know there's the option to have 'optical' Magnification in the goggles/glasses that the spellcasters can benefit from, but I hadn't thought at ALL about the lowlight/thermo business.

   I guess that's why the mage should have a spirit buddy nearby.  To hold the flashlight, of course.

[FastJack]

*cough*astral perception*cough*

Darkness/Fog doesn't interfere with Astral Perception when trying to spot a creature that has an aura. Granted, if you're trying to do something in the Physical world while shifted to the astral, you take the -2 penalty, but if you're casting a spell at an astral target, you take no penalty (although you become dual-natured while astrally perceiving...). It's the reason they made Esprit Grenades (Arsenal, p. 64); to interfere with an astrally-perceiving mage.

[Juxtamon]

Astral Perception is a lovely place to be, but not always practical.  It's an extra action in the holy-crap-fighting!-moments that some of those low-IP folks cling to like velcro and your Grandma's sweater, it opens you up to spirits hovering on the Astral, and it sure-as-heck messes up your real-world judgement (dice pool penalty for other stuff).

Against mundanes in poor visibility, is all kinds of awesome for spellcasting and seeing one's way about, for the most part.

My poor, squishy Chaos Mage is getting in the habit of fielding a Watcher or two just to keep eyes out for magical/astral presences (watchdoggin').

And I agree that Direct Combat spells are awesome fun.  I like that Power Ball is so...indiscriminate.  EVERYTHING in the area (if thresholds are exceeded) takes the kaboom.

PowerBall: when you positively, absolutely HAVE to kill every m#*$f#*$n thing (that you can see) in the room...accept no substitute.  Half the calories of Fireball, none of the smoky smell.

[Shadowwalker]

Astral Perception is a lovely place to be, but not always practical.  It's an extra action in the holy-crap-fighting!-moments that some of those low-IP folks cling to like velcro and your Grandma's sweater, it opens you up to spirits hovering on the Astral, and it sure-as-heck messes up your real-world judgement (dice pool penalty for other stuff).

Against mundanes in poor visibility, is all kinds of awesome for spellcasting and seeing one's way about, for the most part.

My poor, squishy Chaos Mage is getting in the habit of fielding a Watcher or two just to keep eyes out for magical/astral presences (watchdoggin').

And I agree that Direct Combat spells are awesome fun.  I like that Power Ball is so...indiscriminate.  EVERYTHING in the area (if thresholds are exceeded) takes the kaboom.

PowerBall: when you positively, absolutely HAVE to kill every m#*$f#*$n thing (that you can see) in the room...accept no substitute.  Half the calories of Fireball, none of the smoky smell.

Amen brother