NEWS

[SR5]Mystic Adepts and Essence Loss through ware

  • 220 Replies
  • 48097 Views

KraakenDazs

  • *
  • Chummer
  • **
  • Posts: 198
« on: <11-25-13/1704:27> »
hmm i'm having a couple of questions here, concerning mostly MA and gear.

Mystic adepts dont start with power points, they end up being them through karma, up to their magic rating.

What happens when a Mystic Adept gets wares, or suffer essence loss?

Does he

A) Lose a point of magic. IF his PP were at the same level as his Magic rating, then he loses the appropriate amount of PP. If his PP were below his magic score, he retains his normal amount.
B) Loses BOTH a point of magic AND a Power Point. Essence loss is a b*tch, chummer.

C)What about losing essence before buying your first PP point. Do you start at zero, or need to buy an ''extra'' one , to pay off your karma debt first?
Maybe, just maybe, concrete and Plasteel are MEANT to armor our planet, and not harm it, omae. Hydroponics can nourish our needy. And i assure you nuclear energy's been involved in getting you that fancy 'ware, chummer.Our mistake? Trading Wisdom for Greed. - Dögan "Babyface" Kross

Michael Chandra

  • *
  • Catalyst Demo Team
  • Prime Runner
  • ***
  • Posts: 9922
  • Question-slicing ninja
« Reply #1 on: <11-25-13/1741:00> »
I'm afraid it's not entirely clear what the official intent is, due to language that can be read in multiple ways. Making you buy extra PP seems like a jerk move, though, and I myself greatly support their PP working like Initiation Levels.
How am I not part of the forum?? O_O I am both active and angry!

Reaver

  • *
  • Prime Runner
  • *****
  • Posts: 6422
  • 60% alcohol 40% asshole...
« Reply #2 on: <11-25-13/1830:35> »
Quote
SR5 page 278

Jimmy Two-Tone, who has a Magic Attribute of 4
and a maximum rating of 6, has decided he can’t live
without some cybereyes. To keep the Essence loss
low, he selects the Rating 1 model, which costs 0.2
Essence. His Essence is reduced to 5.8, his current
Magic Attribute becomes 3, and his maximum Magic
rating is now 5. He can get some more cyberware if
he wants, as Essence reductions do not reduce his
Magic rating again until his Essence drops below 5.


Quote
Sr5 page 279

For adepts, losing Essence is doubly dangerous
because every time your Magic attribute is reduced,
you lose an equal number of Power Points (you
have to “un-buy” powers to make up the loss)



It is not entirely clear, but we know the following happens to both mages and adepts Per the rules (in the quotes above)

So, it sounds like they lose the magic and the PP as soon as they suffer essence loss. It doesn't seem to matter if they had purchased Power Points equal to magic or not...

I.E: if the MA had a magic of 6 and 3 PP and got even just .02 essence loss:
New magic of 5 and now only 2 PP


He would be free it seems to purchase more PP (if he had the karma), but now only up to 5 as that is his new magic rating.


Sounds like it doubly sucks to be the snowflake hybrid awakened. :(
Where am I going? And why am I in a hand basket ???

Remember: You can't fix Stupid. But you can beat on it with a 2x4 until it smartens up! Or dies.

Michael Chandra

  • *
  • Catalyst Demo Team
  • Prime Runner
  • ***
  • Posts: 9922
  • Question-slicing ninja
« Reply #3 on: <11-25-13/1836:09> »
With the Adept, however, it's logical because they have their Magic in base PP. With Mystic Adepts, it makes little sense.
How am I not part of the forum?? O_O I am both active and angry!

Tkeela

  • *
  • Newb
  • *
  • Posts: 39
« Reply #4 on: <11-25-13/1932:31> »
Sorry if this is off-topic, but I made a MA that could only afford 5 of the 6 pp's at chargen, is one able to buy that extra point after a run or two? Or is the potential lost and one has to initiate?
Could I say have 5/6 pp's spent in the beginning....then say get orthoskin4 and keep the 5 pp's?

Michael Chandra

  • *
  • Catalyst Demo Team
  • Prime Runner
  • ***
  • Posts: 9922
  • Question-slicing ninja
« Reply #5 on: <11-25-13/1940:38> »
You can never buy more PPs after chargen, the only way to get them then is Initiating with PP as Metamagic.

As for the second, it's not clear since the HotPatch isn't entirely clear.
How am I not part of the forum?? O_O I am both active and angry!

KraakenDazs

  • *
  • Chummer
  • **
  • Posts: 198
« Reply #6 on: <11-25-13/1959:08> »
You can never buy more PPs after chargen, the only way to get them then is Initiating with PP as Metamagic.

As for the second, it's not clear since the HotPatch isn't entirely clear.

Unh. What do you know...i just checked the whole book using Find to see if that was exact by RAW, and it da*n sure is...

maybe its not that abusive then, a 2/5 karma cost for pps at char creation...finally *some* limitations on adepts :P
Maybe, just maybe, concrete and Plasteel are MEANT to armor our planet, and not harm it, omae. Hydroponics can nourish our needy. And i assure you nuclear energy's been involved in getting you that fancy 'ware, chummer.Our mistake? Trading Wisdom for Greed. - Dögan "Babyface" Kross

Michael Chandra

  • *
  • Catalyst Demo Team
  • Prime Runner
  • ***
  • Posts: 9922
  • Question-slicing ninja
« Reply #7 on: <11-25-13/2000:28> »
Do you mean Mystic Adepts?
How am I not part of the forum?? O_O I am both active and angry!

KraakenDazs

  • *
  • Chummer
  • **
  • Posts: 198
« Reply #8 on: <11-25-13/2017:45> »
oh yeah, my bad. Adepts were already fine, mages were already fine. MAs seemed to have too much of the best of both world but i like to see some high power-high risk resulting from their char creation.

Plus its interesting to note that even a priority A Mystic adept, unless he takes Negative Qualities for 5 extra karma, can't start with max pp.
Maybe, just maybe, concrete and Plasteel are MEANT to armor our planet, and not harm it, omae. Hydroponics can nourish our needy. And i assure you nuclear energy's been involved in getting you that fancy 'ware, chummer.Our mistake? Trading Wisdom for Greed. - Dögan "Babyface" Kross

Michael Chandra

  • *
  • Catalyst Demo Team
  • Prime Runner
  • ***
  • Posts: 9922
  • Question-slicing ninja
« Reply #9 on: <11-25-13/2021:33> »
I still got two Mystic Adept builds lying around, they're still quite nice even then. :)
How am I not part of the forum?? O_O I am both active and angry!

Reaver

  • *
  • Prime Runner
  • *****
  • Posts: 6422
  • 60% alcohol 40% asshole...
« Reply #10 on: <11-25-13/2024:25> »
MA's really are the sleeping giants of the magic world
They can become awesomely powerful after a few runs, when built right

Where am I going? And why am I in a hand basket ???

Remember: You can't fix Stupid. But you can beat on it with a 2x4 until it smartens up! Or dies.

KraakenDazs

  • *
  • Chummer
  • **
  • Posts: 198
« Reply #11 on: <11-25-13/2027:58> »
MA's really are the sleeping giants of the magic world
They can become awesomely powerful after a few runs, when built right

Define ''built right''?  8)
Maybe, just maybe, concrete and Plasteel are MEANT to armor our planet, and not harm it, omae. Hydroponics can nourish our needy. And i assure you nuclear energy's been involved in getting you that fancy 'ware, chummer.Our mistake? Trading Wisdom for Greed. - Dögan "Babyface" Kross

Reaver

  • *
  • Prime Runner
  • *****
  • Posts: 6422
  • 60% alcohol 40% asshole...
« Reply #12 on: <11-25-13/2139:09> »
MA's really are the sleeping giants of the magic world
They can become awesomely powerful after a few runs, when built right

Define ''built right''?  8)

IMO? Using the adept abilities to augment your spellcasting. Lots of Adept powers are great for either providing defense for a spellcaster, or augmenting you IP to help you cast more spells in a short time with out the need of sustaining the traditional mage spells used.

Combat sense
mystic armor
spell resistance
rapid healing*
improved reflexes
danger sense

are all great choices for someone who wants a spellsinger with a little extra something to set them apart from other mages and don't want to rely on Foci or sustaining spells.

OR

For those that want the "true Ninja" type character, you go the other way, and focus on the adept abilities, then use limited and specialized spellcasting to pull of the legendary tricks of the Ninja

Improved Invisibility
Shadow
levitate
influence
hush
physical mask
confusion

are all great spells that mimic the abilities of the infamous ninjas of legend. Of course a sustaining Focus may be needed for some, or you personally sustain the spell till it is time to launch your melee attacks, then just simply drop the spells to avoid the negative dice modifiers. and "poof" from seemingly out of no where, a pajama clad assailant is in the middle of a security patrol slicing them apart... or become visible just long enough to drive the point of his ninjato (Japanese short sword) through the heart of his target, then disappears before the body guards can react.
Where am I going? And why am I in a hand basket ???

Remember: You can't fix Stupid. But you can beat on it with a 2x4 until it smartens up! Or dies.

All4BigGuns

  • *
  • Prime Runner
  • *****
  • Posts: 7531
« Reply #13 on: <11-25-13/2157:24> »
Realistically, the only time the Mystic Adept is better than the Magician is when one is making a certain style of combative mage character (even by the book). They do have combat spells, but the Mystic Adept combat mage is better served having his combat spells as backup "tricks up the sleeve" and primarily using his casting for self buffs in conjunction with the Adept powers.

For more utilitarian, less combative mage characters, going full Magician is better because no matter how much the nay-sayers want to poo-poo it, Astral Projection can be a pretty potent ability. In these cases, thinking with the BS "mage+" idea that people threw around in the first days after the PDF release and going Mystic just because of that not only sacrifices this rather potent ability, which isn't always applicable granted, (neither is being a dead-eye shot with a Panther Cannon or being a national politician level Face by the way) but it will be far, FAR easier to spread oneself way too thin and end up being nigh-useless.


As to the Essence Loss question here, there's not really any clarification needed. The rules say you lose a Power Point when you lose Magic period, so you would lose one even if you had fewer Power Points than Magic rating.
(SR5) Homebrew Archetypes

Tangled Currents (Persistent): 33 Karma, 60,000 nuyen

Beaumis

  • *
  • Omae
  • ***
  • Posts: 255
« Reply #14 on: <11-26-13/0243:43> »
Its not *entirely* clear, but there is pretty strong evidence that MA's that get augmented do lose power points at char gen. Quite simply, you buy power points in step 3 "choosing magic or resonance", but you buy gear in step six. Step 7 allows you to spend leftover Karma, but it already refers to the advancement rules and special restrictions. Power points are mentioned nowhere here, so the only hope for them to be purchased at this point is the "etc" in: There is no mention anywhere that steps can be skipped or the order mixed up, so it seems reasonable to assume this is meant to be a rigid order of operations.

Quote
Any remaining Karma can now be invested in smoothing out any rough edges, picking up or improving skills, buying additional spells, acquiring bound spirits, bonding foci to be used at the start of the game, purchasing contacts, etc. Refer to the Additional Purchases and Restrictions table to note any special restrictions on purchasing items with Karma.
(P. 98 Core)

Quote
finally *some* limitations on adepts
Frankly, losing astral projection is a damn bug limitation in my mind... .