[joe15552]

     I found some very common mistakes that players and GM's make when it comes to magicians. Every single mage player I've ever played with (in 3rd or 4th edition) always came out of character creation with 4 init phases. I had no problem with this, since I always played a tank. I was always like, "Um... okay, so you have an extra action, heal me, dude." Everyone is a happy family... at least in all the games I've played, so it wasn't a big deal. This is not an MMO where people see people exploiting or hacking and complain to Blizzard and get players banned. This is a couple people hangin' out, throwin' dice, bein' geeks. Good times... right?
     Well, I've spent about 10 minutes looking at complaints on different forums about 4th edition that mages are overpowered, and those people are all reading the rules wrong, along with my friends that are mega fast super newbie healers. Or, maybe they are looking at an out of date book? I dunno, but here's the up-to-date rules, followed by commentary on how the rule is usually broken.

Rule 1: Force and Increase Reflexes
     "...Finally, no piece of gear purchased at character creation can have a rating higher than 6 or an Availability higher than 12." (pg. 86 Shadowrun 4th Ed. 10th Anniversary)
     "... A spell's Force limits the number of hits (not net hits) that can be achieved on the Spellcasting Test. So if you cast a Force 3 spell and get 5 hits, only 3 of those hits count. In other words, Force has a limiting effect on spells - the more oomph you put into the spell, the better you can succeed with it. This limitation does not apply to Edge dice that are used to boost a spell." (pg. 182 Shadowrun 4th Ed. 10th Anniversary)
     "Increase Reflexes: This spell increases the reflexes (Initiative and Initiative Passes) of a voluntary subject. Each level of increase adds +1 Initiative and +1 Initiative Pass. The caster must achieve a certain threshold for each level:
Threshold 2: +1 Initiative, +1 Initiative Pass
Threshold 3: +2 Initiative, +2 Initiative Pass
Threshold 4 (max.): +3 Initiative, +3 Initiative Passes" (pg. 208 Shadowrun 4th Ed. 10th Anniversary)
    "      Foci                           Availability                    Cost
     Sustataining Focus           (Force x 4)R              Force x 10,000" (pg. 348 Shadowrun 4th Ed. 10th Anniversary)
     My friends that are the mega fast super newbie healers are hangin out with the GM before the game saying, "Hey look, I can cast Increase Reflexes, multiple times, through my force 1 sustaining foci until I have 4 hits on my spellcasting test, this way I can start the game as a a mega fast super newbie healer." The GM usually let's them do it, which is cool. If the GM says it's cool, then it's cool. However, if I was GM, I would point out that in order to beat the threshold of 4 on a spellcasting test casting increase reflexes, you have to be casting the spell with a force of 4, unless you want to burn edge every time you try to get 4 hits casting the spell at force 1. In order to sustain a spell of force 4 with a sustaining focus, you have to have a sustaining focus of force 4, which is not available at character creation. The highest sustaining focus you can have at character creation is force 3. I would not let them use a force 3 sustaining focus to hold a spell whose power is equal to the power of a force 4 spell, because arguably, the focus holds the power of the spell, not the character's edge. Now, if a character in my game burned an edge or two trying to get 4 hits on their spellcasting test to cast Increase Reflexes, then chose to sustain the spell without using a foci, taking -2 to just about everything, I'd say that's fair.

Rule 2: Foci and Drain
     "All magicians use Willpower plus another mental attribute appropriate to their tradition to resist drain. For example, most hermetic mages use Willpower + Logic to resist all Drain while shamans use Willpower + Charisma." (pg. 178 Shadowrun 4th Ed. 10th Anniversary)
     "...A power focus adds its Force to all tests in which the magician's Magic is included. A single power focus can increase a magician's ability to cast spells, call on and control spirits, and bypass astral barriers."
     I've seen a lot of players, on forums and in person, use power foci for drain tests. This is not the intent of the author's of this book. The Magic attribute does not affect Drain at all. it affects all the other things mentioned, casting spells, summoning and controling spirits, and bypassing astral barriers, but it has nothing to do with drain. If I was a GM, I would say that you cannot use dice awarded from the binding of a power foci to resist Drain. If a GM thinks that is okay, then cool, just know that it would be a house rule, not a Shadowrun rule.

I hope this helped someone improve their role-playing experience.

[FoxBoy]

 Restricted Gear (RC, Page 101) lets you start with one piece of gear up to availability 20. Still have to pay and bond it though.

[joe15552]

... and get GM approval.

[FoxBoy]

Picky, picky, picky! Sheese! But isn't that true of every character sheet that passes in front of the GM?

[Nomad Zophiel]

I think most of the "Magic is Unbalancing" arguments rely much more on thins like unlimited Initiation, making Magic the one stat with no cap and/or clever backhanded ways of getting very powerful possession spirits stuck in your fragile metahuman body to turn you into a walking tank.

[thalandar]

I play a mage, and for the most part I get by with 3 even 2 IPs.  I use those to cast spells like armor, to protect myself and manabolt to fry street sammies with low willpower.  Mages/shamans are NOT unbalancing.  I say this because, as a group, when we encounter eniemies we target the spell casters first and its a doctrine that corps use against you too.  We are all military, and as we can tell you:  you don't kill the Lieutenant first, you kill the lieutenant's radioman (RTO) first-he's the one that calls in airstrikes and artillery.  Playing a mage or shaman is like having a big target painted on your head-tends to balance the game out.

[FoxBoy]

An another complication that mages have is the reaction they get from the public, even other runners.

Mages make up less then 1% of the populace, and of that, most are of medium to low power and in the corp's emply as researchers, or magical security. What the average person on the street knows about magic is that they're hyper powerful that can read your mind with just a glance and can throw fireballs like someone else throws darts. They could do it all day too! if you believe the media and Horizon. Their biggest enemy isn't the supervillian, it's the script that calls for their spell to fail suddenly and without warning. OH, they can summon up pets named 'fido' or 'baby' that can eat a person whole.

Now the amount of TRUTH that the public knows about magic won't fill even a thimble, as the corps like to keep their wageslaves happy and ignorant. The end result of that though is if your known as a mage then your going to get folks coming up to you asking if you can grant wishes. I kid you not...

Lets put it this way. That latest magical block buster hit that has Mr. Action Hero Mage in it? That's a mages favorite COMEDY because it's so far from the truth. Yet people believe it like it is the truth.

Ain't the media great?

[KarmaInferno]

I just wish they'd errata the Sustaining Focus also limit spell HITS to it's rating, as well as Force.

As written, a high Edge character can in fact generally afford to spend it to pretty much guarantee four hits on, say, Improved Reflexes. Even with a Force 1 spell in a Force 1 Sustaining Focus. It is an mechanically efficient use for Edge.

Most GMs I know do in fact limit hits to the Focus rating, but that's a house rule, not what's actually written.


-k

[joe15552]

Karma: for some reason, the way you worded your reply revealed to me exactly how flimsy the wording in the manuals are concerning the matter of improved reflexes and sustaining foci. My opinion WAS that it was misinterpreted because of how many people do what I call "exploiting" the rules, but now I see that those mage players are just reading the rules literally. Perhaps there may be a call for errata on this subject. Does anyone know if there has/will been/be?

[Walks Through Walls]

But by the rule with or without karma you are limited to a net hit total of the force of the spell. So a force 1 spell is still limited to 1 net success which you then could sustain but it doesn't do any good in the case of increased reflexes

[KarmaInferno]

But by the rule with or without karma you are limited to a net hit total of the force of the spell. So a force 1 spell is still limited to 1 net success which you then could sustain but it doesn't do any good in the case of increased reflexes

He meant Karma as in Me - a shortened version of my forum name.

And Edge specifically bypasses the Force limitation on hits.



-k

[Walks Through Walls]

Where is that at I'm not finding it right now

[FastJack]

A spell’s Force limits the number of hits (not net hits) that can be achieved on the Spellcasting Test. So if you cast a Force 3 spell and get 5 hits, only 3 of those hits count. In other words, Force has a limiting effect on spells—the more oomph you put into the spell, the better you can succeed with it. This limitation does not apply to Edge dice that are used to boost a spell.

[Mäx]

Interesting, i wonder what SR forums your reading, as neither of these basic mistakes is a reason why mages are OP.
It has much more to do with the fact that unless i'm a mage, my mage companion has a LOS on me or i have one of the 2 anti magic surge qualities, a half way desand combat mage can knock me out with little effort and there's absolutely nothing i can do about it, except try to kill him first.

[Walks Through Walls]

Thanks fastjack. I knew it was somewhere I just couldn't find it