Shadowrun
Shadowrun General => Gear => Topic started by: viaRailGun on <05-02-13/0322:38>
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do these bonuses stack (-8 )?
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No. They're the same thing. Painting blue on top of blue doesn't make the blue more blue.
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do these bonuses stack (-8 )?
The Ruthenium coating is basically to give something else the ability of the Chameleon Suit.
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No. They're the same thing. Painting blue on top of blue doesn't make the blue more blue.
bet you can't see me running around singing i'm blue
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And suddenly I'm reminded of Arrested Development.
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apart from the foolishness, are the bonuses of ruthenium poly. applicaple when armor is worn over FFFBA?
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apart from the foolishness, are the bonuses of ruthenium poly. applicaple when armor is worn over FFFBA?
Ruthenium FFBA only gives the bonus if it is the outer layer. Like throwing paint on the Bond car that turned invisible, projecting something underneath the paint isn't going to make the paint disappear.
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On the other hand, in a situation like FFBA+Lined Coat, you might find a GM ruling that you need to poly-coat both, as the layer under the coat will be visible.
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but for thermal damping the base layer would suffice?
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but for thermal damping the base layer would suffice?
Seems logical. A thermal damping FFBA would be better than a thermal damping coat.
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On the other hand, in a situation like FFBA+Lined Coat, you might find a GM ruling that you need to poly-coat both, as the layer under the coat will be visible.
*facepalm*
It doesn't actually make it invisible.
It scans the area around the wearer and adjusts its coloration to blend in.
Not only is this clearly stated in the rules (SR4A 321, AR 50), if it made the long coat "see through" such that you needed to add it to the FFBA, what then? You appear to be buckass naked?
A cloak of invisibility is pretty damn useful. An invisible cloak, on the other hand, not so much.
-Jn-
Ifriti Sophist
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Actually, he means the coat doesn't cover your whole body. If it matched the stuff around it, then you'd have obvious legs walking around with a harder to discern body.
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Isn't that why Ruthenium Polymer Coating can only be added to armor and clothing that covers your entire body, such as full body armor and suits? You're not allowed to get it on other stuff.
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Yes.
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Hence the Ruthenium Coated Poncho.
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Actually, he means the coat doesn't cover your whole body. If it matched the stuff around it, then you'd have obvious legs walking around with a harder to discern body.
While it would be much better for my faith in humanity to believe that to be true...
That's not at all what he said.
On the other hand, in a situation like FFBA+Lined Coat, you might find a GM ruling that you need to poly-coat both, as the layer under the coat will be visible.
(Emphasis mine)
He may well have meant something other than what he said, but my (rather formidable) psychic abilities are somewhat limited by the interwebs (Astral and Matrix don't mix).
It's reasonable, in the absence of anything to indicate otherwise, in an environment where wearing two helmets at the same time is a matter of serious debate, to assume he meant what he said.
-Jn-
Ifriti Sophist
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He's not saying the coat turns invisible and you see the stuff beneath it. He's saying the coat is an outer layer, but it doesn't cover your whole body, so the layer under it (shirt, pants, shoes) needs the coating, too.
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I know what you're saying he meant, but what you said that he meant is not what he said. If he meant what you meant he should have said what you meant, not what he said.
What I meant was that what he meant is not what the rules meant nor what you meant but meant what he said it meant.
Got it?
;)
-Jn-
Ifriti Sophist
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That made me chuckle, which is always good before bedtime. Thanks. ;D
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Is that an actual item somewhere?
I actually have a player that had to get one to basically make his new armor work.
To explain:
Player wanted to get Milspec armor. No problem, after going through availabilities and all of that, he settled on Medium Milspec that (in addition to other upgrades) would have Chameleon Coating (to at least mitigate the "holy crap milspec!" effect).
After going through all the upgrades, the player realized that he doesn't have a way to hide his equipment, the armor doesn't exactly have a storage compartment. So rather than needing to modify all of his guns and other equipment with chameleon coating, we just had him buy a cloak (clothing) and modify it with the Ruthenium Polymer Coating armor enhancement so that he can wear it over the top of everything and hide the rest of the stuff that he has hanging off the armor...
Does that seem about right, or is there something already out there that does this?
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Yeah, buy a poncho (75 nuyen I believe?) then add chameleon coating. Done.
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Actually, with MilSpec armor, it would be cool if there was a form of Ruthenium coating that did just make the armor invisible, instead appearing to just be a civilian walking down the street in the business suit you have on underneath, despite wearing more armor than some light tanks.
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Yeah, while going *clank* *clank* *clank* the whole way :-\
Plus you would be probably about an inch off the ground, and your clothes would be hard pressed against your body because of the fit of the armor...
Now, you might be able to program the ruthenium coating to display a particular image (of you) on the outside, but at best it would probably seem distorted and move strangely when someone got up close.
Might be able to get away with a Holo-Projector or something...
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Yeah, I don't think the fluff or the crunch really support the idea, it is just an amusing mental image.
Maybe combine the two, use Ruthenium to make yourself invisible, and then holoprojectors to generate a non-armored you in roughly the same location so people don't bump into you on the street, and you can still walk into Stuffer Shack for a drink.
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What sort of games are you playing where mil-spec armour is every day wear? I see things like chameleon coating/ruthenium polymers used on this sort of armour to help camouflage the stuff while in the jungle or whatever while on an op. Not while going to the stuffer shack. I know you may be joking about this but I've seen enough posts where this is a serious consideration. Mil-spec is not everyday wear.
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It depends on how pink and how tall your mohawk is ;D
My character doesn't do this, though. She goes to the Stuffer Shack in a transparent ruthenium coated Second Skin bodysuit suit with a continuously shifting pattern of neon lines (like Tron on acid), carrying a massively modded Warhawk pistol and riding a souped-up monocycle. Duh.
(My metaphorical mohawk is pretty damn pink. ;) )
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Actually, with MilSpec armor, it would be cool if there was a form of Ruthenium coating that did just make the armor invisible, instead appearing to just be a civilian walking down the street in the business suit you have on underneath, despite wearing more armor than some light tanks.
That's not too far away from Adaptiv.
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Hmmm. My pink mohawk is well hidden beneath a hat and mirrorshades.
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If you wear a hairmet you won't have to brush it latter.
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Joe: "Invisible" is perfectly servicable shorthand for the function. It's not precise, but shorthand never is.
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A lot of people only use the Chameleon Coating for cloaking purposes.
AR134 offers this fun alternative use for vehicles (but I would apply that to other surfaces, too):
"...allowing the colors of the vehicle's exterior to be altered at will. The vehicle can, for example, have moving billboards on the exterior to earn a little extra nuyen, or elaborate color and art schemes which can be changed when something new has been downloaded from the Matrix. The vehicle can quickly change exterior colors in order to impersonate a delivery vehicle/drone, or it can be altered in order to blend..."
That means you can use the coated surface to display any kinds of shenanigans, pseudo-normal clothes etc.
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That's my favorite use for Ruthenium, though I kinda sidelined it after I found Holographic clothes,
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I remember one time where we were being chased in my character's van. So turned a corner, dove into a parking garage real quick, and flipped the chameleon coating on, setting it to look like Renraku corporate property, had the spoof chip and morphing license plate do their thing, and drove back out of the garage. Just because you can be seen, doesn't mean you aren't invisible.
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Joe: "Invisible" is perfectly servicable shorthand for the function. It's not precise, but shorthand never is.
Your comment implied that it was transparent.
You see around it, not through it.
It's not a minor detail.
As I said, a cloak of invisibility is useful, an invisible cloak is not.
-Jn-
Ifriti Sophist
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Just because you can be seen, doesn't mean you aren't invisible.
The best kinds of invisibility are when people look straight at you, then pass right on by because you're not important enough to remember.
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Joe: "Invisible" is perfectly servicable shorthand for the function. It's not precise, but shorthand never is.
Your comment implied that it was transparent.
You see around it, not through it.
It's not a minor detail.
As I said, a cloak of invisibility is useful, an invisible cloak is not.
-Jn-
Ifriti Sophist
My comment implied that as a coat is generally not a complete covering, and that while the area covered by the coat would not be generally visually discernible (or, to use a simpler term, visible), that which is not covered by it would be.
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Joe: "Invisible" is perfectly servicable shorthand for the function. It's not precise, but shorthand never is.
Your comment implied that it was transparent.
You see around it, not through it.
It's not a minor detail.
As I said, a cloak of invisibility is useful, an invisible cloak is not.
-Jn-
Ifriti Sophist
My comment implied that as a coat is generally not a complete covering, and that while the area covered by the coat would not be generally visually discernible (or, to use a simpler term, visible), that which is not covered by it would be.
This has already been discussed.
"The layer under the coat will be visible" is not the same as saying "the area that is not under the coat will be visible."
The statement has now been clarified. Twice, even. Enough said.
-Jn-
Ifriti Sophist
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If your going to be pedantic you really want to be correct.
The statement "The layer under the coat will be visible" doesn't imply that it will be visible in its entirety, just that it will be visible.
For clarity see the definition of visible: http://www.thefreedictionary.com/visible.
The first definition is:
1. Possible to see; perceptible to the eye: a visible object.
Typically under a jacket is it possible to see a shirt. The shirt is perceptible to the eye. The shirt is visible.
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I always thought that for cost and simplicity sake that the coating was more of a light bending distortion effect. I couldn't find pictures of them, but allot of you should remember the thermoptic rain slickers from the ghost in the shell movie. They didn't perfectly cover the person wearing it, but still made their entire body difficult to see. And the art in SR4A page 326 shows a guy wearing the same sort of thing that is just that, a stealth coat.
Thinking about coating something completely sounds highly improbable to me, as there are parts of the body that will not likely be covered, like the soles of your boots, and then you get into what items on your person weren't part of the suit. So I started treating it more as a stealth kit that while it allows you to modify a certain chunk of clothing probably comes with more periferals that cover other parts of your body that most clothes aren't likely to, like your whole head.
(http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20101019133261/ghostintheshell/en/images/5/52/Thermoptic_camouflage_motoko.jpg)
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I always thought that for cost and simplicity sake that the coating was more of a light bending distortion effect. I couldn't find pictures of them, but allot of you should remember the thermoptic rain slickers from the ghost in the shell movie. They didn't perfectly cover the person wearing it, but still made their entire body difficult to see. And the art in SR4A page 326 shows a guy wearing the same sort of thing that is just that, a stealth coat.
Thinking about coating something completely sounds highly improbable to me, as there are parts of the body that will not likely be covered, like the soles of your boots, and then you get into what items on your person weren't part of the suit. So I started treating it more as a stealth kit that while it allows you to modify a certain chunk of clothing probably comes with more periferals that cover other parts of your body that most clothes aren't likely to, like your whole head.
(http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20101019133261/ghostintheshell/en/images/5/52/Thermoptic_camouflage_motoko.jpg)
nice eye Ary! he's totally wearing a "lined coat" and "chameleon body suit". i always thought it'd look like Predator's stealthmode or Metal Gear Solid's stealth suit.
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It's not a 'he'. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1BhezbxCPc)
-k
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viaRailGun was referring to the character I was referring to in the Shadowrun 4th ed Anniversary Edition
and Motoko's true sex, or even gender, is never solidified in any of the media to my knowledge.
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viaRailGun was referring to the character I was referring to in the Shadowrun 4th ed Anniversary Edition
and Motoko's true sex, or even gender, is never solidified in any of the media to my knowledge.
Actually, in SAC 2nd GIG, it shows her as a little girl in the hospital, before she got her full cyborg body.
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She is also referred to as a girl in the mangas so I'd hazard her original gender is female.
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It's not a 'he'. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1BhezbxCPc)
-k
i'm gonna go pop my GITS cherry now..
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I'm not going to ... further derail the thread to converse about Motoko, but it's hinted at, that she's not really really female, or that being female in body is a choice for her and that it does not match her gender. The second GIG Memory library episode was not an actual place but a strange unexplained anomaly. She actually disappears physically, and ends up in a virtual world temporarily, though where her physical body was is not explained.
It's more her gender that's never solidified, it's heavily hinted at that she was a little girl at one time, but never full canon confirmed.
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I've never seen anything to suggest that she was ever a man, however.
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Not so much seen as said, mostly by Batou. I recall, the episode where Batou was infiltrating the ex-boxer's operation he mentions something to Motoko at the end of the episode, and a couple other times throughout the series. It has been a while since I've read the books, but he says nearly the same thing to her again in one of them, I couldn't give you the book title though; it's been years.
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I wouldn't put that as the Major used to be a guy, and more like Batou teasing the Major for not being all that girly most of the time.
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He teases her when he's working out ( a completely pointless act ) in the Tachikoma garage, this was a little more... serious, but I'm just saying it's not solidified. I knew this would happen at the mere mention of her sex so, yah, I get what you're saying, this is just what I'm saying. I'm not going to go comb the whole internet to backup my point, this is just what I've gathered over the years.
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But but Aryeonos, this is the internet and an SR forum no less. You're supposed to do that sort of thing. Stop being so reasonable. :P
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Hrm... You have a point
Everyone is an idiot but me.
Better? I call it the grouchy squidward.
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If your going to be pedantic you really want to be correct.
The statement "The layer under the coat will be visible" doesn't imply that it will be visible in its entirety, just that it will be visible.
For clarity see the definition of visible: http://www.thefreedictionary.com/visible.
The first definition is:
1. Possible to see; perceptible to the eye: a visible object.
Typically under a jacket is it possible to see a shirt. The shirt is perceptible to the eye. The shirt is visible.
If you insist on moving beyond pedantic and going straight to priggish, then:
No, bright bulb, the shirt is not visible if the jacket is closed. Just as clothing under a long coat is not visible when it is closed.
Obviously, what is not under the coat is visible. The original comment in question stated that what is under the coat would be visible.
The statement has already been clarified, re-clarified, and now, thanks to you, reduced to asinine quibble.
Care to keep going? Or are you done?
(How's that for grouchy squidward? ;))
-Jn-
Ifriti Sophist
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I liked it when you said quibble.
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It's not just a good word, it is fun to say.
C'mon. You know you want to.
"Quibble."
Say it....saaaaaaay it...
-Jn-
Ifriti Sophist
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Quibble
It IS fun to say!
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Quibble. Yup it's fun. Confirmed. Now to find a thread where I can call someone a Grouchy Squidward, then reference them back to this thread. Um but are we maybe moving this thread off topic?
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What is, off topic?
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And suddenly I'm reminded of Arrested Development.
Am I too late to this party?
(http://www.robotmutant.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/tobias-blue-myself-t-2.jpg)
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And suddenly I'm reminded of Arrested Development.
Am I too late to this party?
(http://www.robotmutant.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/tobias-blue-myself-t-2.jpg)
It's never too late for Arrested Development, as Netflix has so kindly demonstrated.
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And suddenly I'm reminded of Arrested Development.
Am I too late to this party?
(http://www.robotmutant.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/tobias-blue-myself-t-2.jpg)
He's Blue? (http://youtu.be/HgV1O0X4uXI) (I blame Switzerland.).
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Netflix just got all the old Cartoon network shows, that were good, really never thought that day would come. And now I've seen Samurai Jack season one about 20 times.
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Netflix just got all the old Cartoon network shows, that were good, really never thought that day would come. And now I've seen Samurai Jack season one about 20 times.
Omg I saw they had Johnny Bravo and there was squee. ;D I loved that show as a kid.
Btw chameleon suit I'm on topic. >.>