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SR6 - First attempt at a magician (with a side of face)

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easl

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« Reply #30 on: <10-18-19/1606:38> »
I disagree that the cost of picking a lower priority in Magic is only in the number of spells you start with; you cannot simply dismiss the fact that your Magic attribute decreases; while you could potentially make up the difference with Special / Attribute Points, that means you are using those points on Magic instead of elsewhere.

Yes, but you more than make up for that, which is why Magic (or Resonance) D is the way to go.  Here's a few examples, but AIUI literally every possible 'switch' combination mathematically favors using the higher priority for Metatype.

B vs. C: Metatype B allows you to start with the same Magic 3 as Magic B does, plus gives you an extra adjustment point beyond the one spent to increase your Magic to the equivalent level.
C vs. D: Metatype C allows you to start with the same Magic 2 as Magic C does, plus gives you four extra adjustment points beyond that.
B vs. D: Metatype B allows you to start with the same Magic 3 as Magic B does, plus gives you five extra adjustment points beyond that.

...and so on.

Michael Chandra

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« Reply #31 on: <10-18-19/1852:46> »
I agree that the 50 karma for customization cannot be used to buy spells, but is there any reason that the karma you get from negative qualities could not be used to by a few extra spells?
Because the intent is that the karma difference from qualities impacts your customization karma, so basically it either comes out of the 50 or goes on top of it. And in the customization phase, under RAW you cannot learn spells.
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Mistwalker

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« Reply #32 on: <10-18-19/1914:09> »
Is this intent indicated anywhere (such as a dev or writer mentioning it somewhere)?
Or is the intent the current interpretation from some/most folks?

Or is this something else that needs to wait on the updated Errata/FAQ?

easl

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« Reply #33 on: <10-18-19/2125:52> »
Is this intent indicated anywhere (such as a dev or writer mentioning it somewhere)?
Or is the intent the current interpretation from some/most folks?

Or is this something else that needs to wait on the updated Errata/FAQ?

It's stated on page 66 exactly what you can use customization karma for: "The points are spent on skill or attribute advancement, as well as additional funds to get those last gear pieces you might have missed or an additional quality (though the limit of six qualities still applies)..."

Mistwalker

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« Reply #34 on: <10-18-19/2129:58> »
But I am not talking about customization karma, I am talking about karma from negative qualities.

Michael Chandra

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« Reply #35 on: <10-19-19/0435:38> »
There is no rule explicitly covering the Quality Karma to begin with, so if you insist on being VERY strict, the karma just disappears. On the other hand, that interpretation would mean you can take 6 positive qualities without downside. The only explicit thing in the rules is this:

Quote
To be honest, she’s a little concerned that the 14 attribute
points from Priority C will be a little thin, but she figures the
extra Karma for customization and a negative quality or two
will help fill in any gaps she might have.

That said, asides from the fact that obviously we're going to get errata for this part of change blindness, I doubt any GM would allow you to treat the quality karma any different from the customization karma, given how you too have nothing proving that's allowed.

And if you want to go 'if it's not in the rules, it doesn't exist', I would counter with that Unarmed Damage is never stated explicitly in the rules either, and that doesn't mean you do 0 or 10 damage, just that they slipped up writing the rules and we can still build a solid case for it.
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Mistwalker

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« Reply #36 on: <10-19-19/0935:08> »
Michael, I am not trying to be argumentative, simple trying to see if I missed (another) entry the CRB, as I do not find the CRB as intuitive as I would have liked.

Michael Chandra

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« Reply #37 on: <10-19-19/1307:49> »
There is only 1 section covering the quality karma, which I quoted. It is very clear an explicit mention is missing. I do not understand why you insist on claiming the quality karma bypasses chargen rules, when there is nothing supporting that interpretation.
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Stainless Steel Devil Rat

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« Reply #38 on: <10-19-19/1318:02> »
Is this intent indicated anywhere (such as a dev or writer mentioning it somewhere)?
Or is the intent the current interpretation from some/most folks?

Or is this something else that needs to wait on the updated Errata/FAQ?

The bonus karma you get from negative qualities is spent alongside, and by implication in the same way, as the 50 "regular" karma.  There's nothing saying you CAN spend that karma any differently.  "Doesn't say you can" trumps "Doesn't say you can't" when rules debates come down to that conflict.
RPG mechanics exist to give structure and consistency to the game world, true, but at the end of the day, you’re fighting dragons with algebra and random number generators.

Ajax

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« Reply #39 on: <10-19-19/1437:07> »
Karma is Karma. There’s no “Quality Karma” and “Creation Karma.”
Evil looms. Cowboy up. Kill it. Get paid.

Mistwalker

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« Reply #40 on: <10-19-19/1610:16> »
There is only 1 section covering the quality karma, which I quoted. It is very clear an explicit mention is missing. I do not understand why you insist on claiming the quality karma bypasses chargen rules, when there is nothing supporting that interpretation.

Hmm, I have not insisted that quality karma bypasses chargen rules for the 50 customization karma.
I was unsure, so asked the question.
When you answered without a reference to the rules while mentioning intent, I sought further clarification (cause I have missed a few rules, due to them not being found in a spot that I find/found intuitive, and I have not yet read all of the entries on SR6 on these forums). I was/am trying to further my knowledge of SR6, both RAI and RAW.

I also seem to recall that in another thread, you mentioned that there was nothing in the rules about having to spend some or all of the 50 customization karma (as there is with Nuyen), so you brought the idea that someone could take that karma out of chargen, then spend it however they wanted (perhaps on spells after buying the formulas?).

So, once again, trying to get a better understanding of the rules as written and intended. And am seeing what could be conflicting responses in different threads. So I ask questions.

Based on the responses in this thread, my take on this is that there is no clear rule on it, but most folks are of the opinion that karma gained from qualities can only be spent on what is listed in the section on 50 customization karma. And that there seems to be an expectation that the next errata will likely address this.

Mistwalker

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« Reply #41 on: <10-19-19/1616:46> »
Is this intent indicated anywhere (such as a dev or writer mentioning it somewhere)?
Or is the intent the current interpretation from some/most folks?

Or is this something else that needs to wait on the updated Errata/FAQ?

The bonus karma you get from negative qualities is spent alongside, and by implication in the same way, as the 50 "regular" karma.  There's nothing saying you CAN spend that karma any differently.  "Doesn't say you can" trumps "Doesn't say you can't" when rules debates come down to that conflict.

Well, to plays devil's advocate a bit here, step 3 of chargen is qualities, while step 4 is spend customization qualities.
So, if you go in order of chargen steps, an argument could be made that it was a deliberate choice by the devs/authors that step 3 has no limitation on what you can spend the karma obtained from negative qualities on, as those limitation only come into play in step 4.

This is one of the reasons why I asked about quality karma vs chargen karma.
I was unsure, so asked on these forums


ZeroSum

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« Reply #42 on: <10-19-19/1927:51> »
All valid questions, but I'm now going to ask that if y'all want to continue this discussion, take it to the rules forum and stay off mah lawn (shakes old man fist).

In all seriousness, this is a Character Generation thread, and this thread has gone waay off topic.