Somehow missed a few of these, so coming back and responding all at once. Apologies in advance for the wall of text that's probably about to follow.
Oh well. That's just a definitive house rule right there. I can see not allowing initiation, maybe, but extra spells? Really? That's just silly.
Well, no it's not. Step back and consider: what is/are the decision cost penalties to magic abilities for choosing magic C instead of magic D (or any other pairing, if you wish)? Minor though it is, the only fixed cost is the number of spells you start with.
I disagree that the cost of picking a lower priority in Magic is only in the number of spells you start with; you cannot simply dismiss the fact that your Magic attribute decreases; while you could potentially make up the difference with Special / Attribute Points, that means you are using those points on Magic instead of elsewhere.
Only focusing on the "fixed" cost seems disingenuous, because as you say yourself it is minor. The real cost lies in the concessions you have to make elsewhere when picking a higher priority of magic, because the math just does not add up. Take my example; by picking a lower priority Magic attribute in favour of skills, I bridged a divide of around 140 Karma. That's twice the customization karma you start spent on skills that I won't have to raise in-game. Compare that to the 20 karma worth of spells I lost, and it should be a no-brainer that fixed costs are trivial compared to the opportunity costs of picking priorities that more substantially affect your long-term growth.
I don't disagree at all with the decision to base the number of spells you gain on a Priority pick; limiting what Customization karma can be spent on, however, is something I strongly disagree with and likely will houserule in my own game, because I prefer more options and choices for my players, not fewer.
Pretty much. No Mage will ever take anything other than Magic Priority D if you let them buy spells with Karma at char gen. That would be the important bit. Its a pretty significant buff to Mages, but it's your table.
I haven't done the math, and while I think your statement is hyperbolic ("no one will ever" is a pretty broad generalization) I agree that allowing spells to be purchased with Karma might skew the priority picks in favour of lower magic.
Then again, the Core Rulebook already has skewed priority picks, so why is this any different. Can you see any reason to take Attributes E, for example? I sure can't, as mathematically it is just a bad pick; your other picks cannot even begin to compensate for the Karma hit you'll take if you do.
So the issue isn't, in my opinion, that allowing spells will make Priority A, B, and C Magic less optimal; they already are. Again, look at this example; even with Magic D I have 4 spells, plenty to start the game with considering the absolutely massive Karma advantage I get from spending Special/Attribute and Skill Points. Comparatively, it would take my character months of running and even more time training (assuming 5-10 karma gain per month) just to get where it currently is if I had picked Magic B or C instead, just from the skills alone, whereas this character is, at most, a few weeks or one or two months behind from the lost spells.
The difference is so vast that you don't even need to allow spells to be purchased with Karma for Magic at high priorities to be a liability rather than an advantage. While that is my personal opinion, of course, I think the math provides pretty conclusive evidence of this being objectively, not just subjectively, true.
...shouldnt your Total Karma be 50+8 (Weak Immune System) +10 (Honorbound) = 68 Karma ?
I personally don't count customization Karma as part of the Karma earned through gameplay. That's just a personal choice.
Just something popping up in my mind, why does anybody need a Micro-transceiver when DNI allows to control things by thinking ? You could just think voice message to teammate:"going in in 3 seconds".
As mentioned by Hobbes, micro-transceivers are old-school. In previous editions they did not need the Matrix to function, and were as such a means of communication used by teams that needed to go, for the most part, dark.
I just consider it part of every runner's required gear, just like a fake SIN.
Outside things like one shots no one will anyways. Take 2 or 4 for aspected spells get by with summoning as a full mage. Learn a spell or two after every run until you are where you want to be.
It doesn’t motivate people to forget their math skills it motivates exacerbated eye rolls. Because it’s just a hoop jump not a real limit.
Agreed 100%. The math speaks for itself in my opinion, and it is overwhelmingly in favour of picking Magic at a lower priority from a character optimization and progression planning perspective.
@Tecumseh and @Michael Chandra
I strive to make characters that rely as much as possible on RAW, so I won't be relying on rules that are largely open for interpretation. Since "unspent customization karma can be carried over into gameplay" isn't explicitly spelled out, I won't rely on that as an option.
That does mean I have to go back and revisit my other characters, because I know at least one of them had a few Karma points left over, but I didn't want to spend more on nuyen because I had picked In Debt and with Errata that gets expensive real quick.
Thanks again for all your feedback everyone. I'm slowly but surely getting more used to the new system, and I greatly appreciate all of your input.
EDIT:
Changes for v3:Given the rules for carrying Karma into gameplay is unclear, and that by RAW you cannot buy Spells for Karma, I've made the following changes:
Removed Heal and Improved Invisibility spells (+10 karma)
Removed In Debt (-1 Quality, new total is 5/6; -6000 nuyen)
Spent 3 more Karma on resources to make up the difference from losing In Debt (-3 Karma, +6000 nuyen)
Added High Pain Tolerance quality (-7 Karma)
Result: karma balanced, two fewer spells but no In Debt and High Pain Tolerance instead, no RAW issues.
