First Shadowrun Character - Face Adept Advice?

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« Reply #15 on: <02-27-17/1814:32> »
2.  I gave I gave you text above.  In Step-7 it tells you what you are allowed to do with your remaining Karma.
Its even called ADDITIONAL PURCHASES & RESTRICTIONS & no where in there is Initiation/Sublimation listed.

The problem is that you're not reading these particular sections closely.  Let's look again (emphasis mine):
Any remaining Karma can now be invested in smoothing out any rough edges, picking up or improving skills, buying additional spells, acquiring bound spirits, bonding foci to be used at the start of the game, purchasing contacts, etc.
Refer to the Additional Purchases and Restrictions table to note any special restrictions on purchasing items with Karma.
-Shadowrun Core Rulebook, page 98
The first sentence in the quote you are referring to here says that we are allowed to spend Karma on lots of things, and the "etc." bit means that the examples it provides are not an exhaustive list.  The second sentence mentions that there are certain Karma purchases that have restrictions at the time of character generation: not allowed to start with 50 billion bound spirits or the maximum amount of foci bonded (allowed x2 instead of x5), along with four other restrictions.  And then the text moves on.  It reminds you that the Availability 12 / Device Rating 6 max still applies when buying nuyen with Karma, and tells you to advance skills and attributes as normal with Karma. 

So, the text is a permissive list and the table puts restrictions on its members.  Since initiation is a form of advancing your character through Karma that does not appear on the table, it should be permitted.

You can make that argument for Attributes v/s Skills v/s Qualities...... But step 7 (spending karma) is called Finishing Touches & is implied to be done last. 
Otherwise you can go spend karma buying Skills/Attributes to Level-1/2 & then add your Attribute Points after spending the Karma which is completely not how its intended to work.
The way they imply that Step 7 is last is the same way they imply that Qualities should be after Attributes, or choosing your Magic level shouldn't be first (hey, by the way, you have to spend your metatype special Attribute points before you have a Magic rating!).  It's poorly written and contradicts itself. 

You could make that argument, except that no system ever does that and I guess the editors thought it may have been obvious.  But even so, I'm not trying to spend Karma and then points on Magic; I'm trying to spend points on Magic, spend Karma on raising the max, and then go back and spend points (not Karma).  This works when spending Karma for a Quality - why not initiation?

I'm looking at the build you suggested - and you're the first one to post a build, so thank you very, very much for that.  To make sure I understand the Contact portion, is your first number Connections?  Are there rules on what kind/how many items a Fence can move with low Connections?  Or do they just take anything you want off your hands?
Yes, Connection/Loyalty.     Missions defaults to 5% x Loyalty for Fencing, so if using those rules it gets you 30% from recovered goods.
Thanks for the clarification.  So just to be clear: in Missions, it doesn't matter if I want to fence a Mobius yacht (costing 84,985,000¥ as a reminder), my Connections 1 fence with "virtually no social influence; useful only for their Knowledge skills" (SR5, pg 387) is going to be able to move that for me (with no questions asked because they have Loyalty 6).  Nice.  Abusable as hell, but nice.

Wait, Melanin Control can change hair color? (*goes back to read it*) Oh hey, I misread Keratin Control.  Awesome, thanks.  One less power I need to have

Ah, the contact backstory was an intentional cut.  I can dig it, but it rankles, man.

I don't share your penchant for normal elves, and Dryads can't take Blandness, so I'll have to find something else cool.  (It's forbidden with Distinctive Style, which is stapled to Glamour.  And that makes sense over Faceless, as Blandness says you're trying to blend in through your own Glamour, while Faceless says that with a mask, you can be an alluring mysterious stranger.)


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« Reply #16 on: <02-28-17/0350:49> »
If your GM allows it, of course go for initiation at chargen. Most do not and cite page 66. "With Exceptional Attribute, you can end up with a maximum Magic rating of 7 when starting the game (before initiation). Meaning (as most interpret it) initiation cannot be taken at chargen. SR rules at famously badly written.

I have to say I concur with your choice of Magic at D. For non-human adepts, it's often the efficient choice. I usually prefer high attributes to high skills. Skills are cheaper to raise in play and attributes do much more than be a base for skill. I also think you underestimate edge. If I were your GM I would not let you get a "free" middle/high lifestyle sleeping at "marks". A few reasons (among others) is you can't store all your illegal stuff there, you would want to do your make-up/disguises somewhere private, and a lover's apartment is not as reliable as your own place. (Sleeping on the streets while between?).

My suggestion (for dryad or ordinary elf):
Priorities: Meta A, Attributes B, Skills C, Magic D, Money E
Attributes: Bod 3, Agi 6, Rea 2(3), Str 2, Cha 8, Int 5, Log 3, Wil 3, Edge 5, Magic 6, Initiative: 8+2d6
Pos Qualities: First Impression, Too Pretty to Hit, Mentor Spirit(Raven), Common Sense, Jack of all trades. (+Dryad ones)
Neg qualities: Haven't chosen but should be at or near 25 points. I would not take In Debt higher than 5, and only on awakened characters.
Adept Powers: Imp reflexes 1, Cool resolve 1, Combat Sense 1, Enhanced Perception 1, Facial Sculpt 2, Commanding Voice, Melanin+Keratin Control, (+ Raven ones)
Pool Skills: Rating (Adept powers and glamour included in  pools)
12(14) Automatics 6 + spec something
18 Con 6
16 Leadership 6
16(18) Negotiation 6 + spec Bargaining
11 Etiquette 1 (karma)
11 Impersonation 1 (karma)
7(9) Perception 1 + spec Visual
9 Disguise 2 (Stealth Group)
8 Palming 2 (Stealth Group)
8 Sneaking 2 (Stealth Group)
7 Locksmith 1 (karma)
Gear: 6000+25000 from In Debt to spend should cover the essentials.
Karma: Strength 10, Pos qualities 24, skills 6. If all 25 neg qual taken, 10 more to spend on stuff.

On the Distinctive style issue. It does not have to (shouldn't) be canceled by faceless. Distinctive style is something about you that is recognizable but it does not have to be your face. Maybe you always have That Tatoo always visible, always wear that ridiculous spotted scarf, your hair always in a highly recognizable mohawk style or whatever. If it is canceled, you should not get points for the neg quality. I also couldn't find the reference that all dryads have distinctive style? They all have symbiosis, which can be nice or naughty depending on GM.

« Last Edit: <02-28-17/1105:19> by drakir »

The Bald Man

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« Reply #17 on: <02-28-17/0945:27> »
There is more to lifestyle than where you sleep.  Just like rent/mortgage isn't the only expense you have as an adult.  The quality and quantity of EVERYTHING else.  Better food, nicer clothes, secure place to keep the things you don't carry with you, entertainment, etc. 

So sure you can charm your way past the cover, and slut your way into a clean bed and shower.  Your clothes show your lifestyle to a certain extent.  Bus and taxi fare come out of pocket, whereas middle lifestyle can grab a taxi as part of lifestyle. 

Also, if that is how you plan on sleeping every night that is what you are doing.  The person with middle (or low) lifestyle can take training time, or rest.  Good luck healing up from physical damage when you a singing for your supper.  You get 1 healing test after 24 hours of rest - clubbing and charming are not rest.  A GM could decide that due to the exertions of the night and the schedule of your 'partner' that you don't get the requisite sleep to regain an edge.  Sounds like your GM is a softie so probably won't be a problem.

SR5 motto is everything has a price.  If you want the things that medium or low lifestyle afford you then pay the price. 


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« Reply #18 on: <02-28-17/1105:04> »

SR5 motto is everything has a price.  If you want the things that medium or low lifestyle afford you then pay the price.

Awakened STDs are a thing presumably    ;)   

But yes this is clearly a Pink Mohawk character as most first Runners tend to be.  As long as the GM and rest of the table are engaged in similar shenanigans it's all good.  If they don't want to get bogged down in who's paying for cab fare, they don't need to.

First rule, have fun! 


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« Reply #19 on: <03-01-17/2045:31> »
How would you rule Distinctive style works with disguising yourself?

Distinctive style does not necessarily mean Distinctive Looks. The book makes that very clear.
For instance you could stutter. Doesn't matter who you appear to be, you stutter, and people remember that.

That said, it seems like a poor choice for an infiltration specialist. Kinda the point is not to be remembered I would think.
Nothing is foolproof. Fools are so ingenious.


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« Reply #20 on: <03-01-17/2128:45> »
 "Anyone who attempts
to identify, trace, or physically locate this character (or
gain information about him via legwork) receives a +2
dice pool modifir for relevant tests. If an NPC makes a
Memory Test (p. 152) to determine how much they recall about the character, reduce the Diffiulty Threshold
by 1, to a minimum of 1."

Mechanically Distinctive Style makes is easier to identify you.  Mechanically always being disguised makes it harder to identify you.  Just sayin. 


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« Reply #21 on: <03-02-17/0527:26> »
My ruling on Distinctive style and disguise. If the PCs distinctive style is his/her neon green hair, he/she would not color it red! It's part of the personality. PC can disguise/change everything else like eyes, skin, clothes but would not even cover the hair. If a PC has Distinctive Style "always wear a pink scarf" and then never wears it on the job, it's not a distinctive style!

It's also important that it does not have to be visual "styles". The PC could have a strange gait (walk in a funny way), have a really dark voice or always talk about self in third person. Anything that is distinct and memorable.

I have a native american mage. She wears 2 colored feathers. The colors may depend on her mood but she would not leave home without 2 colored feathers. They are part of her style and kind of like mascots for her. Distinctive style could be had on a Face, but it's not a thing that should disappear conveniently.


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« Reply #22 on: <03-04-17/1520:20> »
Glamour isn't something that can disappear.  The player seems to want his disguises to be flamboyant roles, where automatically standing out won't be a problem.  And presumably being memorable won't matter, since they will be remembering a disguise.  But most runners would use a disguise for infiltration attempts that rely more on social engineering than sneaking.  A disguise does not preclude other people subsequently tracking you down - and distinctive style means you are easier to find.  In the case of glamour, even without a reliable description, they could still narrow the search down by focusing on people who have a similar effect on others - probably a comparatively narrow range of people (although social adepts, and even normal people with high social skills, would muddy the water a bit).

It's probably a moot point.  His GM doesn't sound like the type who dings players on every flaw they take.