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Why cant missions be more realistic

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Hermes

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« Reply #45 on: <06-26-12/1507:31> »
" To me I see this gargantuan ball of yarn of real world stuff that can be spun into the game and played upon. Honestly I thought the reason had something to do with why mythbusters cant ever do their RFID show. Well that and what happened to GURPS Cyperpunk in the 1990's with the whole secret service raiding a role playing game maker over a book.

Is that what you're angry about?  You do realize that Shadowrun is fiction, right? :)

If you want to run an illuminated Shadowrun campaign (making it more illuminated than it is), there are options for that.  I don't think that the Missions series is designed to go running with Plan 9.

What I mean is that Shadowrun itself already does a good job of doing this.  The only reason why Shadowrun isn't as controversial as GURPS Cyberpunk is because it mixed Tolkienesque fantasy with it's game world.  Shadowrun has made a lot of 'predictions' of what it would be like to live in a 1984, a Neuromancer, or Brave New World -- type setting.  Besides, Steve Jackson Games was indicted and did win their criminal court case over the book (the Gov. thought that it actually instructions on hacking).

What the game is centered on is Man vs. Society.  Not the best of society, but the worst of society.  If you look at the links on Business Insider, you'll find links to the earning inequality in America (I read it, it's a Classical Liberal take on what happened).  For the most part, the world of Shadowrun (2050 to 2073), if you take away the technology and Tolkienesque element, describes America in 2012.  In 1989, this game came out and made stark predictions that we didn't realize that would come true since it is all covered with an element of fantasy.

All of those secret groups, you want the Missions team to write about them?  I don't think that will be wise.  I think the Missions team would have a better time of it if they just present the Missions as they have been doing.  If you want people to wake up, you don't need a RPG game to do that.  And for the most part, a lot of people are waking up.

After all, we in the fiction business do write lies.  We write unrealism in our products for a reason.  I think Shadowrun had to come out like it did.  It came out at precisely the right time in 1989.  It had precisely the right authors to author and give shape to it.  It's speculative fiction, but it's mostly true now.  So, the authors did take the real world, saw the trends as to where we are headed, and created a game with a fantasy element and it became successful.

If you want more Shadowrun adventures to deal with the Real World in 2012, more power to you.  There's nothing stopping you from creating such adventures for your group.  But the number one goal for any company is to make money.  Catalyst Game Labs is no exception to this, and as long as the majority wants something like how the Missions are written now, then that's what they will produce.  If you would like more realistic variety in the Missions products, then you are doing the right thing and creating awareness.  But remember, Catalyst Game Labs is a company and it's number one goal is to make money, and if they can do it solving a problem and producing a product that people enjoy; well more power to them.

If people enjoy the Missions as they are written now, then hey I am all for Catalyst Game Labs writing the game and earning they need to be in business. As long as they keep their products top notch and in production, I see no reason for them to not be successful.  I think Shadowrun, in terms of milleu, is realistic enough.  I may be idealistic and think that "Intellectual Property" laws has outlived their usefulness because we have the most perfect Copying Machine money can buy, but I know that there are people who earn money from producing Shadowrun right now and sometimes you need to realize that Realistic isn't always best.

(since I was smited, I might as well put down my full feelings about this topic).
« Last Edit: <06-26-12/1554:43> by Hermes »

CanRay

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« Reply #46 on: <06-26-12/1635:29> »
OCCUPY ORK UNDERGROUND!!!

;D
Si vis pacem, para bellum

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Leigion

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« Reply #47 on: <06-26-12/1645:36> »
to Hermes, Why did you assume i was angry? i have no idea where you got that from in my last post. Other then that I have no idea what you just said or are trying to say. Illuminated? Are you trying to say Illuminati? What's plan 9? Are you talking about the 1950's sci-fi in space?  Why you qouted that of all things I said is off to me, because it references a thought about hey maybe they cant disclose information even in a fiction kinda of way. Any case writers even bull himself stated why mission's are the way they are. Please clarify or write a little more so I can figure out what you are trying to say. I am not being mean i legitimately don't understand. 

Yes I understand Shadowrun is fiction Hermes, alot of well known writers/authors/movie makers do research into the subjects they wish to bring to their audience. Even GM's do it. I was cross referencing Shadorun and  the real world for similarity, nothing more. Maybe if you would of clicked the links you would of came to that point. If anything you might be able to steal ideas for a game, or at the very least check out some tech and how it works to adapt it to shadowrun.
« Last Edit: <06-26-12/1651:19> by Leigion »

CanRay

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« Reply #48 on: <06-26-12/1716:54> »
Plan 9 (who took his username off of the mentioned movie) is a Transhuman Shadowtalker who often comes off as a conspiracy nut, but seems to hit the mark far too accurately.
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Hermes

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« Reply #49 on: <06-26-12/1901:32> »
Yes, which is why he's better than David Icke in our universe.

Quote
If anything you might be able to steal ideas for a game, or at the very least check out some tech and how it works to adapt it to shadowrun.

Yes, I understand why you linked them.  but you wanted more realism in adventures such as the Missions series.  I called for more realism like you did (more or less), and I got smitten.  It's not impossible for GMs to do research for their own personal games.  It's just that Catalyst Game Labs are a business, and they need to make money.

My point is, I'm sure that the Missions director is spot on in having the line work for more of a larger audience.  Illuminated Adventures Missions-style where the runners go to crack the door open on the Bilderburgs or spy on Bohemian Grove during the sacrifice to Molech would be too niche. 

However, adventures where the runners are hired to go in and steal the latest plans for phono weapons, whether they are ultrasonic SASERs (Sound Amplification through Stimulation of Electromagnetic Radiation) or speaker guns, from Ares Macrotechnology would not be too niche for Missions -- such technology has been used since the 1930s and 40s.  Application of such technology against US citizens have been investigated by former Governor Jesse Ventura.

Let me see if I can find the actual Episode of Conspiracy Theory: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WaHmbki_VHQ

Shadowrunners are often sent against other Corporations all the time. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCFlPnViIPA

There are a lot of things that go on today that can be used for Adventure fodder.

CanRay

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« Reply #50 on: <06-26-12/1911:59> »
Well, the matter is up to Bull, so take it up with him.

Up close and personal.

He'll be at GenCon.  ;D
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Leigion

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« Reply #51 on: <06-26-12/2056:07> »
Thank you for reiterating what I been saying and catching on so fast. Data mine stuff and twist it to play in Shadowrun. I'll try to be be a bit more clearer next time since your now taking it to heights I never intended. Well posts ago, I got my answer of why missions cant be more realistic. What about a mission line or a source book, that had a gritty feel? I would say test the waters with a mission and see what happens if it moves then design a product line or source book
« Last Edit: <06-26-12/2057:54> by Leigion »

Black

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« Reply #52 on: <06-26-12/2245:46> »
Thank you for reiterating what I been saying and catching on so fast. Data mine stuff and twist it to play in Shadowrun. I'll try to be be a bit more clearer next time since your now taking it to heights I never intended. Well posts ago, I got my answer of why missions cant be more realistic. What about a mission line or a source book, that had a gritty feel? I would say test the waters with a mission and see what happens if it moves then design a product line or source book

That might be an idea worth looking at.  A book that looked at different ways to play Shadowrun, maybe similar to the Shadowrun Mission book in 3rd edition.  SOmething that covers a few different variations:
  • Epic - the runners are players in the game, not pawns.  Runs against megacorp HQ, taking down a great dragon etc.  Hints and tips on how the play a game at this level
  • Streets of the Metroplex - gritty, realistic, lethal, how to handle full on realism, optional rules to make combat etc more leathal and realistic
  • Sci-Fi - Runners in space, more high tech, etc, running a campaign thats more science fiction / space opera
  • Gangs of Seattle - campaigning at the ganger level, gaining turf, making deals, forming alliances, dealing with the man, what happens when your ganger runs against corporate shadowrunners
  • Corporate Shadowrunners - How to run a company man type campaign
  • Monster Hunter - how to increase focus on magic and mystical threats

Could include a summary of optional rules appropriate to each type of campaign?
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Mystic

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« Reply #53 on: <06-27-12/0928:52> »
OCCUPY ORK UNDERGROUND!!!

;D

Do NOT give Bull any more ideas...Me on the other hand... 8)
Bringing chaos, mayhem, and occasionally cookies to the Sixth World since 2052!

"Just because it's easy for you doesn't mean it can't be hard on your clients"-Rule 38, The Seventy Maxims of Maximally Effective Mercenaries, Schlock Mercenary.

CanRay

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« Reply #54 on: <06-27-12/1208:48> »
OCCUPY ORK UNDERGROUND!!!

;D
Do NOT give Bull any more ideas...Me on the other hand... 8)
I try to give everyone ideas.
Si vis pacem, para bellum

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Leigion

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« Reply #55 on: <06-27-12/1839:32> »
to Black, The epic, sci-fi and monster hunt together in a sourcebook along with some other stuff would be cool, its a good idea. Only problem i see with a sourcebook like missions book is if it covers to many directions then the rest of it will suffer. Example, You see the sourcebook, your going for the high sci-fi lets say, ok. You open it up find your chapter and not much there like 10-15 pages on that subject plus fluff. Would you buy it? See what i am saying if they go into to many directions.

If they do a sourcebook on anything it should have meat in it. Hey maybe you don't happen to like everything, maybe you will not use everything but at least plenty of meat to pick up and slap on your plate, and in your game.
« Last Edit: <06-27-12/1842:10> by Leigion »

Leigion

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« Reply #56 on: <07-03-12/1738:32> »
OK what about a source book that covered the getting by in a gritty future. Organized crime, police dealings. Doing corporate runs with high security. How to get around wi-fi tracking and staying off the grid. loaded with details not just fluff. A section on GMing it along with some optional rules.
« Last Edit: <07-03-12/1853:50> by Leigion »

Bull

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« Reply #57 on: <07-04-12/0135:28> »
Legion:  Most of what you're looking for and wanting from Shadowrun is really outside the scope of the Missions Living Campaign.  I'd suggest starting up some new threads in the main Shadowrun discussion area and asking there, you'll likely get more response.

This particular sub-forum is specifically for running and playing the Shadowrun Missions Living Campaign Adventures.

WSN0W

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« Reply #58 on: <08-07-12/1930:02> »
Yeah, 99 Bottles might be more of your style.

As for the Realism aspect, I personal figure a lot of the 'little touches' are just glossed over and are part of the lifestyle costs. Low lifestyles are in areas where the big guys aren't looking. You aren't 'on the grid' really and get the pros and cons to live with it. The higher ones you have those sins.

As for the 'Big Brother', it's true there is a lot of tech to be big Brother, but the other problem is (or perk) is it's not just 1 Big brother but tons. And so if Ares catches you looking suspicious on one of their drones but you hit a NeoNet place...why would they share that info? Would they even KNOW NeoNet was hit?

Add in the fact that 'don't kill the messenger' where the Runners are basically the Temp Employee work force of the world. Why smear you today when instead I could hire you tomorrow? Especilaly if you slip to those dystopian areas of urban life where it looks like modern Detroit and trying to hunt down a few professional Spec-Op agents (which are what Shadowruns basically are) just seems like an extensive waste of manpower for damn near anything. Add in data bloat because they are watching EVERYTHING that means they have to sort through everything when they want to find the Needle of the Day.

I also look at it much like I look at social skills on PC's. If a PC has amazing charisma and social skill levels, I take everything the player says in the best light possible, even if the PLAYER isn't as socially adept as their character. And vice versa for the well spoken player playing the 1 Cha 1 Ettiqute character. I hear what they say, run it through the 'reality filter' and react accordingly. I also figure the character take smart steps to cover their tracks at all points without forcing them to belabor the point.

Dinendae

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« Reply #59 on: <08-07-12/2324:31> »
What about the Impossible Pink Burn Team?  ;D
You don't want to know about them.

Great Dragons don't want to know about them.

Ok, now I'm intrigued and want to know!  ???