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SR6 Is IC programms

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hulka

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« Reply #15 on: <10-16-19/1542:49> »
Cybercombat CRB p.179
Attack Rating is the persona’s Attack + Sleaze. Defense Rating is the target’s Data Processing + Firewall.

IC CRB p.186
These are the types of IC a host may throw at unwary intruders. All IC use (Host Rating x 2) for Attack Rating, Condition Monitor, and most rolls. Their Initiative is (Data Processing x 2) + 3D6. Defensive rolls and effects vary by IC type. Defensive rolls and effects vary by IC type.
example:Acid IC
"When Acid IC hits in cybercombat"
HOST CRB p.185
For example, a rating 4 host might have Attack 5, Sleaze 4, Data Processing 7, Firewall 6.
A host’s attributes are shared by itself and its IC programs.

I agree. This rules are a little contradictory. This is cyber combat , but different rules.
In this Host IC have AR8  according to IC rules or AR 9 according to Cybercombat rules. Defensive Rating is 13. And Dicepool what IC apply vs hacker is 8. No progarms or action, only pure code against hacker. Hecker defensive roll is dependend to IC.
Hacker use his Data Spike or Tarpit action discrabed in Matrix actions section
Its right?
« Last Edit: <10-16-19/1546:32> by hulka »

Xenon

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« Reply #16 on: <10-16-19/1549:22> »
In Shadowrun, specific rules (in this case that specifically apply to IC) will always override the general rule.

SR6 p. 186 IC
All IC use (Host Rating x 2) for Attack Rating, Condition Monitor, and most rolls. Their Initiative is (Data Processing x 2) + 3D6. Defensive rolls and effects vary by IC type.

DigitalZombie

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« Reply #17 on: <10-16-19/1609:25> »
But whats the purpose of an attack Attribute of the host then?

As hulka said; page 186 says hosts share their Attributes with their IC.
Yet the next page says their attack rating is calculated with rating*2.

So by RAW that would mean an IC can have A:8 S: 7 D: 5 and F: 6
And have AR 10 (rating 5*2) DR: 11 (D+F) as the files had nothing specific on their DR.  A condition monitor of 10 ( rating 5*2) and 10 Dice on most rolls which most likely means their hit Rolls.

I do believe though that the AR og rating*2 is an error and should be errataed
« Last Edit: <10-16-19/1614:59> by DigitalZombie »

hulka

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« Reply #18 on: <10-16-19/1614:51> »
Correct.
Then Host may not have Attack and Sleaze attributes, Only Data Procesing and Firewall. Host itself cannot attack. He has IC for this work.

Banshee

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« Reply #19 on: <10-16-19/1618:13> »
Caught me on my phone again, so I don't have my file handy.

Thought this was already in errata, but if not then this is another case of Attack rating being misused because it was written before that term was designated for edge purposes. The IC rating x2 is meant to represent their skill+attribute dice pool for making attacks, etc.
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CigarSmoker

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« Reply #20 on: <10-16-19/1620:46> »
Correct.
Then Host may not have Attack and Sleaze attributes, Only Data Procesing and Firewall. Host itself cannot attack. He has IC for this work.

The Host can use Sleaze to run Silent. But Attack is really not used anywhere for Hosts in the Rules as written at the moment. So i would as GM put their stats always on Firewall, Data Processing, Sleaze, Attack in that order.

DigitalZombie

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« Reply #21 on: <10-16-19/1629:33> »
Caught me on my phone again, so I don't have my file handy.

Thought this was already in errata, but if not then this is another case of Attack rating being misused because it was written before that term was designated for edge purposes. The IC rating x2 is meant to represent their skill+attribute dice pool for making attacks, etc.

Nice, I award you 1 edge for outstanding perseverence. Its nice to have you around for clarifications.

Xenon

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« Reply #22 on: <10-16-19/1638:26> »
But whats the purpose of an attack Attribute of the host then?
Since it is not used to calculate Attack Rating and it is also not used for calculating damage done by Killer and Black IC it isn't really used for anything.

Only thing I found so far is that the Host's Attack attribute is used by Jammer IC while defending. (nevermind, attack attribute is used when defending against the Jammer's attack - not the other way around)



I do believe though that the AR og rating*2 is an error and should be errataed
Perhaps.

Or perhaps the whole Host Rating + 1, +2, +3, +4 is legacy copy pasta from SR5.
« Last Edit: <10-16-19/1655:16> by Xenon »

Banshee

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« Reply #23 on: <10-16-19/1642:31> »
But whats the purpose of an attack Attribute of the host then?
Since it is not used to calculate Attack Rating and it is also not used for calculating damage done by Killer and Black IC it isn't really used for anything.

Only thing I found so far is that the Host's Attack attribute is used by Jammer IC while defending.



I do believe though that the AR og rating*2 is an error and should be errataed
Perhaps.

Or perhaps the whole Host Rating + 1, +2, +3, +4 is legacy copy pasta from SR5.

As a follow up on my post from just a bit ago ... IC does not use its rating to determine Attack Rating ... that would draw from the host .. and to be honest I think damage too, but that I would have to double check the final version
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hulka

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« Reply #24 on: <10-16-19/1651:05> »
Can you add a little example?
Host 4 ,Black IC?
ASDF, Attack Rating of IC And Dicepool for attack?

Xenon

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« Reply #25 on: <10-16-19/1654:15> »
As a follow up on my post from just a bit ago ... IC does not use its rating to determine Attack Rating ... that would draw from the host .. and to be honest I think damage too, but that I would have to double check the final version
Rule wise Attack Rating and damage done etc currently seem to be based on Host Rating (and I kinda like it, easy to remember and resolve)

(but since it is not using the Host's Attack attribute it also mean that the Host's Attack attribute is not really used for anything at all... host's sleaze rating does not seem to be used for anything either, except perhaps making devices attached to the host harder to trace)


Can you add a little example?
Host 4 ,Black IC?
ASDF, Attack Rating of IC And Dicepool for attack?
Attack Rating: Host Rating x 2 = 8
Dice pool for attack: Host Rating x 2 = 8
Matrix Damage: Host Rating + Net Hits
Biofeedback Damage: Host Rating + Net Hits
Condition Monitor Boxes: Host Rating / 2 + 8 = 10
Initiative: Host's Data Processing x 2 + 3D6
Defense Rating: Host's Data Processing + Host's Firewall
Opposing Data Spike or Tarpit: Host's Data Processing + Host's Firewall
« Last Edit: <10-16-19/1707:22> by Xenon »

DigitalZombie

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« Reply #26 on: <10-16-19/1700:03> »

As a follow up on my post from just a bit ago ... IC does not use its rating to determine Attack Rating ... that would draw from the host .. and to be honest I think damage too, but that I would have to double check the final version
Its rating Damage.

But maybe it should be attack Attribute/2?



Can you add a little example?
Host 4 ,Black IC?
ASDF, Attack Rating of IC And Dicepool for attack?
Attack Rating: Host Rating x 2 = 8
Dice pool for attack: Host Rating x 2 = 8
Matrix Damage: Host Rating + Net Hits
Biofeedback Damage: Host Rating + Net Hits

I believe it should be
Rating 4 host with ASDF of 6475
Black IC with ASDF of the same
AR 10 (RAW 8 )
DR12 (RAW 12?)

Attack dicepool 8 vs intuition + firewall
Dmg: 3 Matrix dmg + 3 biofeedback dmg. +1 on each pr net hit. Resisted by firewall and willpower respectively. (RAW dmg 4 on both).
The black IC had 8 in Matrix CM ( maybe or should it be 10 for 8+1/2 rating)



« Last Edit: <10-16-19/1710:08> by DigitalZombie »

hulka

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« Reply #27 on: <10-17-19/0453:01> »
I think, that what DigitalZombie writen is better.
ICs has power from Host, and Attack and Sleaze attributes of Host has sense, so standard cybercombat rules can be applied.

Thank you for a fruitful discussion. In my world it will bo houseruled.

Xenon

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« Reply #28 on: <10-17-19/1109:55> »
Yes, well... If we are talking house rules (but there is another thread for this already where I think house rules should be posted) then you basically have two options here I think;

  • Skip the whole Host Rating +1, +2, +3, +4 mechanic and just house rule that all matrix attributes of a host is equal to host rating and then resolve everything according to regular cybercombat rules
  • House rule that IC use Attack attribute of the host for calculating damage and use Attack and Sleaze attribute of the host for calculating Attack Rating according to regular cybercombat rules

Banshee

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« Reply #29 on: <10-17-19/1130:08> »
Yes, well... If we are talking house rules (but there is another thread for this already where I think house rules should be posted) then you basically have two options here I think;

  • Skip the whole Host Rating +1, +2, +3, +4 mechanic and just house rule that all matrix attributes of a host is equal to host rating and then resolve everything according to regular cybercombat rules
  • House rule that IC use Attack attribute of the host for calculating damage and use Attack and Sleaze attribute of the host for calculating Attack Rating according to regular cybercombat rules

Psst ... #2 is not a house rule and is how its supposed to work. Look for the change of wording in hopefully soon to be released errata.  😉
Robert "Banshee" Volbrecht
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Former RPG Lead Agent
Catalyst Demo Team