[Mahlkihl]

Is the minus to Defense for the firer or the one being fired upon?

[Qudiney]

The minus to defense is for the target of the gunfire. Burst fire reduces chance to dodge rather than increasing base damage as it did in previous editions.

[Medicineman]

Burst fire reduces chance to dodge rather than increasing base damage as it did in previous editions.

in 4A the Attacker could choose between doing more damage or forcing a neg. Mod to the Defender.
I like it having more choices !

with a chosen Dance
Medicineman

[frankhlane]

Burst fire reduces chance to dodge rather than increasing base damage as it did in previous editions.

in 4A the Attacker could choose between doing more damage or forcing a neg. Mod to the Defender.
I like it having more choices !

I get what you're saying medicineman, but damage = accuracy in SR5.  Instead of only getting one choice, you're getting both choices at once.  Burst fire simply got better now.

[Medicineman]

but damage = accuracy in SR5.

??
No, ACC only Limits Your max Damage Output and only If your Dicepool is large enough and only If You don't raise the ACC of a Gun which is quite easy even without WiFi

Instead of only getting one choice, you're getting both choices at once.

?? How can You get both choices if You can't choose to do mor damage ?
 

Burst fire simply got better now.

in 4A I can choose to shoot 1 or 2 short Burst at 1 or 2 different Enemies
in 4A I can choose between a wide or narrow Burst for more or less damage
in 4A I can Mix according to the Situation
in 4A I can choose between a short and long Burst or 2 short Burst

In 5 I can only choose weather I want to shoot a short or a large Burst

How can THIS be better

with a worse Dance
Medicineman
 

[Kanly]

I think what frankhlane meant by accuracy was accuracy and not Accuracy.

As in your chance to hit your target. And since your net hits when hitting that target increase damage, a -3 dice for the defender = +1 DV to your attack. So burst fire does increase your damage.

[Medicineman]

I think what frankhlane meant by accuracy was accuracy and not Accuracy.

As in your chance to hit your target. And since your net hits when hitting that target increase damage, a -3 dice for the defender = +1 DV to your attack. So burst fire does increase your damage.

Yes, but you have the same Option in SR4A PLUS you have the choice to directly increase the Damage by +2 for Short or +5 for Long Burst or to change the Mode or to change the Target, etc

with way more Dances
Medicinemna

[Mahlkihl]

Thyank you

[Michael Chandra]

They removed Narrow Bursts (and you don't really want to use it anyway, due to higher dodge pools) but they noted it may come back in another book.

[Medicineman]

They removed Narrow Bursts (and you don't really want to use it anyway, due to higher dodge pools) but they noted it may come back in another book.

I bet its Material for Guns & Runs

with an old and proved Dance
Medicineman

[frankhlane]

They removed Narrow Bursts (and you don't really want to use it anyway, due to higher dodge pools) but they noted it may come back in another book.

I bet its Material for Guns & Runs

Maybe, but I maintain that when your defender rolls less dice to defend, the attacker will consistently do more damage AND you have a higher chance of hitting your target.  In this way, the new burst system is the best of both worlds instead of picking "less chance to hit and more damage" or "more chance to hit and normal damage" you just pick "more chance to hit and more damage".  Best of both worlds.

[ZeConster]

How is it "best of both worlds" if there were two options and they removed one? A burst in 5th does the same thing as a Wide Burst in 4th, and 4th already had the "net hits add to damage" mechanic.

[Ryo]

An average 4th edition Street Sammy could fire an Ares Alpha on Full Auto Narrow Burst for 6P Base + 9DV burst fire, for a total of 15P damage. He loses 7 dice in the process on an unmodified gun. The target's defense test is unaffected. He deals -1 AP.

An average 5th edition Street Sammy can fire an Ares Alpha on Full Auto Burst for 11P base damage. He loses 6 dice in the process on an unmodified gun, and reduces the target's defense test by 9 dice. He deals -2 AP.

It certainly looks to me like you can do both at once in 5th edition. Yeah they got rid of Narrow Burst, but every gun has a much higher base DV. You really don't need bonus damage anymore as just about anything can one shot an opponent. Even the smallest palm pistol in 5th edition deals a base of 6P damage, equivalent to Assault Rifles and the largest Heavy Pistol in 4th edition.

[ZeConster]

The DV increase happened to every weapon (and Armor went up as well), and applies to non-burst attacks as well - it has nothing to do with bursts. And of course, "Narrow Bursts wouldn't be as useful in 5th as they are in 4th, since the base DV is higher, recoil works differently and defense pools are bigger compared to attack pools, than in 4th" does not equal "Bursts in 5th increase both your chance to hit and your damage, unlike Wide Bursts in 4th".

[Medicineman]

An average 4th edition Street Sammy could fire an Ares Alpha on Full Auto Narrow Burst for 6P Base + 9DV burst fire, for a total of 15P damage. He loses 7 dice in the process on an unmodified gun. The target's defense test is unaffected. He deals -1 AP.

An average 5th edition Street Sammy can fire an Ares Alpha on Full Auto Burst for 11P base damage. He loses 6 dice in the process on an unmodified gun, and reduces the target's defense test by 9 dice. He deals -2 AP.

It certainly looks to me like you can do both at once in 5th edition. Yeah they got rid of Narrow Burst, but every gun has a much higher base DV. You really don't need bonus damage anymore as just about anything can one shot an opponent. Even the smallest palm pistol in 5th edition deals a base of 6P damage, equivalent to Assault Rifles and the largest Heavy Pistol in 4th edition.

Didn't You forget in your equation that in SR5 Dodge is REA & INT (not just REA) and that SR5 Armor is X1.5 compared to 4A ?

JahtaHey
Medicineman