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[SR4] House Rules

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Crash_00

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« Reply #165 on: <08-09-11/0258:35> »
Well technically if you are trying to catch someone in the blast, it counts as targeting them. I believe that's covered in the FAQ.

nojosecool

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« Reply #166 on: <08-09-11/0857:00> »
I don't remember where I was reading this, but somewhere it said that targeting people with grenades was only necessary if they're moving.  If they're standing still, then you are permitted to target the ground next to them.

So standing still = threshold 1
Moving target = opposed check

Makes sense to me.
This is not Grand Theft Auto, this is Shadowrun.

Rivits

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« Reply #167 on: <08-12-11/1823:20> »
Speaking of grenades, wouldn't a grenade that hit .003 seconds after it was thrown (Have immediate effect) have to be hurled at about 4000M/Sec to clear its blast radius?   ;)



One of the first house rules mentioned related to Contacts and a discussion about getting in touch with high ranking contacts.

I've just dusted off Shadowrun after a long long absence (ed2)  so this will be my first pass at a house rule.

Use an extended test with Charisma+loyalty(rating*2, 1H) to get in touch with a contact.




ps Where do I jack in to get a version 4.0 upgrade for my 3 foot high stack of SR2 books?  :)

Lacynth40

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« Reply #168 on: <08-12-11/2249:21> »
"Remember, you can't have manslaughter without laughter."

"If violence begat violence, in every case, every human on the planet would instantly devolve into gibbering murderers in a day."

beowulf_of_wa

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« Reply #169 on: <08-14-11/0026:21> »
You use full-auto grenade launchers for suppressive fire.  FYI.
Full auto GL's,  suppressive fire, dual-wielded

m32 MGL, six shot revolver 40mm grenade launcher, just don't load it with rounds pulled from a MK19 belt, it'll break your damn shoulder.
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kirk

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« Reply #170 on: <08-19-11/1247:29> »
A new house rule for my list. WAR!'s "slow" (p 178) is, I think, a teensy bit too good. (where is the sarcasm tag, anyway). It doesn't just mitigate bullet, explosion, fall, and other kinetic damage, it eradicates it.

House rule, then, is that instead of just slowing everything to 1 meter per second (3 m per combat turn), it will reduce the velocity by 50 (per combat turn) to a minimum of 1m per second. Still keeps the 200 kg per point cap, still keeps the 1 m radius per point. It's still got abuse potential but now at least it's not, well, absurd.

Use it against that oncoming vehicle and you don't stop it, you just slow it by 50 -- which is still probably enough to hurt you. Bullets? Subtract one from DV. And so on and so forth.

Maretocks

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« Reply #171 on: <08-20-11/0100:18> »
Our group is considering changing the rule that states that the force of the spell limits the total hits on the spellcasting test, to instead only limiting the net hits instead. This is mostly for combat spells, really. We'd already been doing it like that for almost a year now, and we only noticed that we had originally misread the rule before one of our sessions last month. We tried playing a session through with the actual rule, but it seemed a bit stupid to us that it doesn't matter how many hits you roll, the damage is completely reliant on how many hits they get on there resist test. 1 hit on the resist test automatically reduces the damage by 1, no questions asked since the hits used to match them on the opposed test and to increase the damage share the same cap. Hell, the change really only comes into effect when you roll more hits than the force of the spell, and since our mage is a 3rd grade initiate with 8 magic, he's usually tossing out force 8 spells and doesn't often roll more than 7 or 8 hits. But it makes more sense to us, since it rewards him for making good rolls, and the damage is still meh when he rolls poorly.

Opinions?

Critias

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« Reply #172 on: <08-20-11/0124:03> »
Opinions?
*shrugs*  If it works for you and your group, it's what works for you guys.  I can see it working better for you if it's the rule you were already using, especially. 

Carmody

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« Reply #173 on: <08-21-11/0952:58> »
In my game, Intimidation can be used either with Charisma or Strength, depending on how the character tries to indimidate someone. The point is: can anybody tell me that a Charisma 1 troll is not intimidating?
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Crash_00

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« Reply #174 on: <08-21-11/1448:34> »
While I would most likely see a troll a pretty scary, they aren't common in our world so  I don't think I"m very objective. That said, I think it would be the size of them that would be terrifying (Body) unless they are performing a feat of strength to intimidate (bending a rifle barrel, crushing someone's skull, etc.).

To me though, its more about portraying that you're going to hurt someone than showing that you can. Big Beefy characters already get a bonus (+1-3 for being physically imposing). If the troll is going "Troll...uhm...smash...uhm...you." Then he's probably ruined the fear as he seems less than certain or just plain dumb.

In general, people don't find people doing the following scary:
-acting dumb
-eating an ice cream cone
-drinking through a straw

XelosUchiha

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« Reply #175 on: <08-21-11/1607:13> »
Our group is considering changing the rule that states that the force of the spell limits the total hits on the spellcasting test, to instead only limiting the net hits instead. This is mostly for combat spells, really. We'd already been doing it like that for almost a year now, and we only noticed that we had originally misread the rule before one of our sessions last month. We tried playing a session through with the actual rule, but it seemed a bit stupid to us that it doesn't matter how many hits you roll, the damage is completely reliant on how many hits they get on there resist test. 1 hit on the resist test automatically reduces the damage by 1, no questions asked since the hits used to match them on the opposed test and to increase the damage share the same cap. Hell, the change really only comes into effect when you roll more hits than the force of the spell, and since our mage is a 3rd grade initiate with 8 magic, he's usually tossing out force 8 spells and doesn't often roll more than 7 or 8 hits. But it makes more sense to us, since it rewards him for making good rolls, and the damage is still meh when he rolls poorly.

Opinions?

In my opinion that can make a mage REALLY powerful. If you have a mage with Spellcasting 6 + Magic 8 + various focus = 5, then he's rolling 19 Dice for that attack. If you're casting a force 8 spell, normally you'll be limited to only scoring 8 hits, but if you guys don't limit that, your mage can roll 19 successes and then he's doing 19 hits. So then, the opposed character rolls a willpower + counterspelling (maybe 7 dice) and lets say he rolls 7 successes which is the most they're ever going to make. This would now net you 12 hits, but since you're limited by force he's netting 8 hits. So 8 hits + 8 force = 16 DV. Depending on the type of spell you're casting, this could be a one hit kill. Maybe you like it that way?

But if you limit their TOTAL hits to the Force of the spell, then they're only scoring 8 total hits. So if the opposed character rolls the same seven, you're only getting a net hit of 1, which gives you a DV of 9. DV 9 is going to be much more manageable for the enemy to soak and won't be any kind of instant kill.

Effect:
With your method: a powerful mage can keep casting spells at force 8 and crippling their enemies with a force 8 spell. Reducing the drain from a force 8 is easy, I doubt your mage ever suffers drain at force 8, its almost negligible.

With the book method: since casting a spell at force 8 is only going to get a small DV through, it forces the caster to cast at higher forces. They can cast at Magic x2, so your mage could cast up to Force 16 but why would he? With the books method you'd HAVE to cast at Force 16, or even Overcasting into Force 18 or 20 if you really want to demolish an enemy. Reducing the drain from a Force 16 spell is going to be tough and the mage might take a stun hit or two. (or some physical damage if they're overcasting)

Sorry for the long post but if you want to play a game with super powerful mages that don't suffer drain, your way is fine. Some people probably prefer that and it might be easier for new players (especially new mages). But the rule in the book is meant to balance a spellcaster. if they want to do serious damage, then they have a very serious threat of suffering drain.



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Lacynth40

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« Reply #176 on: <08-21-11/2257:05> »
While I would most likely see a troll a pretty scary, they aren't common in our world so  I don't think I"m very objective. That said, I think it would be the size of them that would be terrifying (Body) unless they are performing a feat of strength to intimidate (bending a rifle barrel, crushing someone's skull, etc.).

To me though, its more about portraying that you're going to hurt someone than showing that you can. Big Beefy characters already get a bonus (+1-3 for being physically imposing). If the troll is going "Troll...uhm...smash...uhm...you." Then he's probably ruined the fear as he seems less than certain or just plain dumb.

In general, people don't find people doing the following scary:
-acting dumb
-eating an ice cream cone
-drinking through a straw

Actually, acting dumb can be terrifying, depending on the situation. And a Troll in your face doesn't need charisma to scare you. Just a simple growl works. Hell, putting a gun in someone's face, and being willing to pull the trigger has absolutely NOTHING to do with charisma, and is generally considered to be pants-filling scary. But, there is no attribute to roll to figure out how badly you want to see what a hole drilled through someone's eye socket looks like. The Hulk isn't terribly charismatic, but when he shows up, somehow the entire town is scared into leaving... Because, no, I don't find pretty people to be scary in the least. I find the people with the intelligence to know how to properly use violence, or just the pure willingness to use violence, to be scary. Yeah, charisma is great for intimidation if you are BLUFFING... But, when you tell someone you are going to blow off their kneecaps if they don't tell you what you want to know, and then you do it... They are gonna listen a bit harder when you tell them the other one is in danger now. And that has nothing to do with Charisma.
"Remember, you can't have manslaughter without laughter."

"If violence begat violence, in every case, every human on the planet would instantly devolve into gibbering murderers in a day."

Crash_00

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« Reply #177 on: <08-22-11/0056:17> »
Acting primal or savage can be scary, dumb usually not so much. Keep in mind that charisma isn't just your looks, its also your ability to manipulate and make yourself believed. This ties into intimidation fine. They already have rules for STR and BOD to be included in the roll if you think about it.

You character is built like a brick, or has the muscles of a greek god, or towers above the guy?
Physically Imposing +1-3

You're waving a gun in the guys face?
Wielding obvious weapon or Magic +2

Shot him in the knee and threatening the other one?
Caused subject physical pain +2

You're well known for leaving destruction and bodies behind you?
+Street Cred and/or Notoriety

Lacynth40

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« Reply #178 on: <08-22-11/0123:29> »
Acting primal or savage can be scary, dumb usually not so much. Keep in mind that charisma isn't just your looks, its also your ability to manipulate and make yourself believed. This ties into intimidation fine. They already have rules for STR and BOD to be included in the roll if you think about it.

You character is built like a brick, or has the muscles of a greek god, or towers above the guy?
Physically Imposing +1-3

You're waving a gun in the guys face?
Wielding obvious weapon or Magic +2

Shot him in the knee and threatening the other one?
Caused subject physical pain +2

You're well known for leaving destruction and bodies behind you?
+Street Cred and/or Notoriety

Still, all that, added up, and the Troll that is drolling on you in obvious hunger, that just shot you in the knee, and is looking at the other one like it needs some lead infusion too... Yer saying THAT'S as Intimidating as the really pretty and smooth elf? ((Going with a Cha 8 elf.)) The one that couldn't even lift your feet as you were being hauled in the room? People don't cough up the info because you can manipulate them into thinking they're scary... That's Con. Not intimidate. No sirrie bob. I would actually believe Intuition before Charisma for Intimidate. At least with Intuition, you are trying to get in their head, and figure out what's gonna scare them the most.

Final thoughts, Charisma is never scary. Shouldn't be used for Intim rolls. Find something else. And for the love of Ghost, roleplay it. One of my favorite scenes was actually an intimidation scene. First thing my char did when he walked in the room was shoot the bastard in the leg. THEN he started with the torture... And it still took five rolls to finally get the average shmoe to break down... Cause my ghoul had crap Charisma!!!!
"Remember, you can't have manslaughter without laughter."

"If violence begat violence, in every case, every human on the planet would instantly devolve into gibbering murderers in a day."

Crash_00

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« Reply #179 on: <08-22-11/0140:43> »
Charisma isn't about being pretty. That CHA 8 elf isn't just good at making friends and telling party jokes. It also allows him to portray himself in the way he thinks you'll believe. You could go the INT route, but you can use the reasoning for INT for all the social skills if you want. Its not about what the elf can do to you, its about what he makes you believe he can do to you.

Unless you're trying a brute force method (as you described) to get information, intimidation is highly about manipulation.

A big muscled troll (Imposing +3) with a gun (+2) that just shot you in the leg (+2) will only be rolling as many dice as that troll if he has a CHA 1. In that case, there is a good point that the troll isn't even getting across the point he really wants. He's horrible at dealing with people at all, not just manipulating people. Keep in mind, the Troll is still better off at this point than the elf that is just sitting there, because the subject is taking wound penalties to resist because of that missing kneecap.