[Phylos Fett]

The powers that be in Australia have announced that they have a 5-year plan to allow women to serve in Front Line Combat Roles in the Australian Defence Force. They have vowed that to serve in such a role will be competency based, and that they will not lower the current standards (for either gender). To me, this seems like a fair enough decision - if you're good enough to do a job, then you should be allowed to do the job.

The current objections (and of course there will always be objects) are that the enemy might rape women on the front lines, that people will react negatively as soon as the first woman gets killed in the line of duty, and that there is a need to change the culture of the military as there is a certain mind-set in place.

I'm going to ignore the rape issue. I'm not saying that it isn't an issue, I am just not going to discuss it here - if you want to, by all means start a thread about it.

I'm not going to discuss the first death objection. See above.

It is the cultural mind-set that I find interesting, and think needs exploring. Is the military the best place to change this mind-set, or should we start earlier?

A good place to start might be team sports (I'm in no way suggesting that war is like football, btw). Teams are a close knit unit, that rely on communication, skill and generally rely on team unity to be successful. If we introduced "mixed" sporting teams, where the players were selected on merit and merit alone, it might be beneficial. Start back in grade school, and get the kids used to the idea, so that it becomes second nature by the time they graduate high school and college. Get them accustomed to being selected based on their skill sets, and knowing that if you're good enough, then it doesn't matter what sex you are. Get everyone used to bonding with people based on competency. So, by the time these same people are in the military together, on the front line, they know they can trust their team mates, because they are there because they deserve to be there, just like everyone else.

Thoughts?

 

[CanRay]

Private Jenette Vasquez kicked much ass, even if she thought it was about illegal aliens. 

Actually, very interesting points.  I grew up in a rather bad part of town (Actually, for awhile, it was the worst part of town, and was the first to come to mind decades later when someone asked where the Ghetto was in the city), and a lot of the girls in my school were rougher, tougher scrappers than the boys.

[bigity]

In my (limited) experience, girls are far, far nastier in a brawl than the fellas.

As for combatants, I couldn't say.  They are just like any other soldier (sailor/airman/or whatever), some will excel, some will fold.  It will disrupt units until everyone gets used to it though, sexual tension and whatnot, etc etc.

[CanRay]

What about the sexual tension now with gay soldiers able to come out and admit they are? 

Hell, what about sexual tension, period.  We're talking about soldiers here.    Also, [Insert Navy Sexuality Joke Here].

...

*Hangs Head*  I know, I know, I'm going to be stomped for these comments.

[Mason]

*stomp*

Honestly, it shouldn't matter if the troops need to relieve some tension while on duty away from home. It is human nature, and an integral part of people. As long as it doesn't interfere with completion of said duties, I would say allow it. Of course, with the whole barracks situation that can be somewhat awkward...

[Phylos Fett]

By mixing teams earlier in life, hopefully sexual tensions will become less of an issue, because people will be used of said environments.

I guess we won't know until we try it (if we ever do).

[ARC]

Having been an infantry soldier, seeing co-ed P.O.G. (prounounced, pough meaning Person Other than Grunt).  I don't see an issue.  My only exception is combat is physically taxing, the Male PT test should be the standard for combat troops, since the Female PT test is not as "tough".  Their scoring you get more points for less Push-ups, sit-ups, and longer times.  Either way, I don't see why they can't join.

[Phylos Fett]

Heard an end-of-week wrap up on this (one of the radio stations likes to do this), and the callers repeated the objections I mentioned in the first post, but threw in a couple of interesting ones:

• What happens when a woman gets her period?
• When a woman gets injured on the front line, you would react differently because it's human nature.

I had to have a bit of a laugh (which is never a good thing when driving in traffic).

Thankfully, some callers answered these objections pretty quickly (which I had already answered in my head, anyway):

• They've invented tampons now, for this kind of thing.
• The whole point of training is to over-ride human nature in combat situations (like running away from explosions and bullets).

[hobgoblin]

i recall reading that females may well be better able to cope with extended missions.

[Phylos Fett]

That'd be a definite advantage.

[Mystic]

In my (limited) experience, girls are far, far nastier in a brawl than the fellas.

As for combatants, I couldn't say.  They are just like any other soldier (sailor/airman/or whatever), some will excel, some will fold.  It will disrupt units until everyone gets used to it though, sexual tension and whatnot, etc etc.

You have no idea. I hated having to arrest women, especially drunk or high women. Ever try and take a pissed of cat, shake it up, THEN try and put into a bag? Yeah, thats about what its like, and I have the scars to prove it. Most men will kick, punch, elbow, knee, etc, it's somewhat predicatable. Women will do the same but add in biting, clawing, scratching, pulling, tugging, screaming, using jewlrey as weapons, and THEN claim you touched them inappropriately or used excessive force.

[Phylos Fett]

In my (limited) experience, girls are far, far nastier in a brawl than the fellas.

As for combatants, I couldn't say.  They are just like any other soldier (sailor/airman/or whatever), some will excel, some will fold.  It will disrupt units until everyone gets used to it though, sexual tension and whatnot, etc etc.

You have no idea. I hated having to arrest women, especially drunk or high women. Ever try and take a pissed of cat, shake it up, THEN try and put into a bag? Yeah, thats about what its like, and I have the scars to prove it. Most men will kick, punch, elbow, knee, etc, it's somewhat predicatable. Women will do the same but add in biting, clawing, scratching, pulling, tugging, screaming, using jewlrey as weapons, and THEN claim you touched them inappropriately or used excessive force.

I have a friend that's a female cop that says pretty much the same thing - she prefers taking down 300lb men over 100lb women any day of the week.

[ARC]

In my (limited) experience, girls are far, far nastier in a brawl than the fellas.

As for combatants, I couldn't say.  They are just like any other soldier (sailor/airman/or whatever), some will excel, some will fold.  It will disrupt units until everyone gets used to it though, sexual tension and whatnot, etc etc.

You have no idea. I hated having to arrest women, especially drunk or high women. Ever try and take a pissed of cat, shake it up, THEN try and put into a bag? Yeah, thats about what its like, and I have the scars to prove it. Most men will kick, punch, elbow, knee, etc, it's somewhat predicatable. Women will do the same but add in biting, clawing, scratching, pulling, tugging, screaming, using jewlrey as weapons, and THEN claim you touched them inappropriately or used excessive force.

I have a friend that's a female cop that says pretty much the same thing - she prefers taking down 300lb men over 100lb women any day of the week.

It's the Same in the hospital.  I have had more problems tying up women then men.  Been spit on, scratched, nurses have been bit, had them scream rape all sorts of things.  Women are a heck of a lot crazier than men.

[Phylos Fett]

In my (limited) experience, girls are far, far nastier in a brawl than the fellas.

As for combatants, I couldn't say.  They are just like any other soldier (sailor/airman/or whatever), some will excel, some will fold.  It will disrupt units until everyone gets used to it though, sexual tension and whatnot, etc etc.

You have no idea. I hated having to arrest women, especially drunk or high women. Ever try and take a pissed of cat, shake it up, THEN try and put into a bag? Yeah, thats about what its like, and I have the scars to prove it. Most men will kick, punch, elbow, knee, etc, it's somewhat predicatable. Women will do the same but add in biting, clawing, scratching, pulling, tugging, screaming, using jewlrey as weapons, and THEN claim you touched them inappropriately or used excessive force.

I have a friend that's a female cop that says pretty much the same thing - she prefers taking down 300lb men over 100lb women any day of the week.

It's the Same in the hospital.  I have had more problems tying up women then men.  Been spit on, scratched, nurses have been bit, had them scream rape all sorts of things.  Women are a heck of a lot crazier than men.

Of course, one would hope that they could train them to focus the crazy if they wanted to be in a combat role in the military.

[ARC]

The only thing I hate worse than strapping down a woman in the ER or mental floor, is having to strap down an elderly person who is confused because of alzheimers or dementia.  It always makes me feel like a bully.  I hate that feeling.