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[Resource][Weapon] A Personal Touch: Accessories, Modifications, and More

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Crash_00

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« on: <12-06-11/0109:33> »
Here's a link to my first fan-made piece. Its got some new Accessories and Modifications as well as a new  type of grenade and grenade launchers, an ammunition customizations system (same one in the Custom Firearm port I did from SR3), and several optional rules I've encountered or used in the past. The total file is just over 1MB and can be found here.

I've also recently ported over the old SR3 Custom Firearm rules. I haven't added much at all to them, or tried to fix any of the old issues that much, but the file can be found here: A Matter of Ballistics. The link in the other post has been fixed also.

Feel free to share thoughts and criticisms. Remember, its a free project so don't expect top notch quality and there is no artwork.

EDIT: Switched a matter of ballistics over to Mediafire for hosting as well. New link should work. Sorry for the inconvenience.
« Last Edit: <12-06-11/1607:24> by Crash_00 »

Fizzygoo

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« Reply #1 on: <12-06-11/0259:58> »
3 pages into A Personal Touch and I'm already jealous of the formatting :)
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Crash_00

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« Reply #2 on: <12-06-11/0320:43> »
Thanks. First time I've really gotten a chance (or had a reason) to play around with publisher much.

Fizzygoo

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« Reply #3 on: <12-06-11/0434:20> »
Caveat: I'm not a gun person, meaning my level of gun education is often slightly lower than the average Shadowrun player and therefor much lower than the gun-bunnies :). So with that in mind, here are my questions/comments so far (and note the things I don't mention means I've liked them and/or understand):



A Personal Touch

Night Sights. Had to look up examples of tritium paint on sights, very cool. But I'm not seeing as how this would negate Partial Light penalty...the target is still in Partial Light. I could see it as giving the same advantage as Bright Sights in Partial Light or total darkness. Or used for hard core GM's that don't allow the Take Aim action/bonus in Partial Light because it's harder to see one's sights. I like the controlling factor that Night Sights only work on the Take Aim action, but I don't see how they're helping to see the target...the lining up the sights more accurately in the dark yes, illuminating the target no.

Deviously love the Juicer Grip.

The AR LSS (and by default the Smartgun L73) sounds exactly like how the standard Smartgun / Smartlink systems work minus the camera. The same with the AR Sights under Modifications. The AR or VR display of where the gun is pointed seems to be, at least to me, the key to the +2 bonus for Smartgun systems and as such I would think the AR LSS and AR sights would also confer the same bonus.

Neon Sights. Same issue with Night Sights, above.

+1 for cool pipe smoker in The Hunters :)

Didn't see the Darts in the Payload types table (was looking to see what their +# AP value was going to be and wasn't listed in the entry).

I would go -1 DV, +1 AP for Deteriorating rounds.

I'd give another +1 for using the word "Plinking" but you already got my +1 for the hour :)

Tagged rounds entry is formatted weird. And I would add that in 2073 in addition to the fluorescence each round has matching RFID tags embedded in the base of the bullet and casing (if casing ammo was used).

Low Power burns...I would just say they impose a -2 penalty on hearing Perception tests which is cumulative with silencers/suppressors (so total -6 if using both), same with Subsonic burns.

High Power burns I would just say +2 bonus on hearing Perception tests (which means using silencers/suppressors gives a total -2 bonus), same for Match Grade burns (+0 net perception test to hear a silenced Match Grade shot).

Don't like Grade three for Scan Resistant, if there's explosive chemicals involved there should be some chance to detect them.

Capsule rounds, misspelling, should be "thin shell..."

ThermaDye rounds, change "Thermal Vision" to "Thermographic Vision" just to keep consistent with canon term.

Kill the title-text above the Powder Type and Payload Types tables.

I don't know of any other weapons that can use one or another skill, so I'd just make Grenade Rifles usable with either Heavy Weapon Skill or Longarms Skill.



A Matter of Ballistics

The link just takes me to the intro filedropper page, http://www.filedropper.com/ no document.



I'll have to see if I can get Publisher somewhere. It definitely adds to your presentation :) I'm stuck with using word and converting to pdf.
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CanRay

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« Reply #4 on: <12-06-11/1036:13> »
And I'm in Canada.   :'(
Si vis pacem, para bellum

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JustADude

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« Reply #5 on: <12-06-11/1728:46> »
So, according to this new system, how would the ammo for Assault Cannons work? Can you customize them at all?
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Crash_00

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« Reply #6 on: <12-06-11/1742:22> »
Ya, I did A Matter of Ballistics in word and figured I'd try something different for A Personal Touch.

I'll probably go back in and clean up a few things after I get more feedback (reworking the layout is a pain so I'd rather not do it repeatedly). A few things fell through the cracks, and I'm still working on some shadow talk to push in as well (some of which will answer a few of the questions).

Addressing a few of the points though:
Night Sights and Neon Sights: They don't illuminate the target, and aren't giving you a bonus to see the target (that would be a perception test and need to be done to be able to take aim at the target). Instead their just helping you see the sights and line them up on target eliminating the penalty on the attack test. I probably need to add "on the attack test" after the Partial Light penalty being negated. The assumption was that they've already seen the target and are now taking aim at said target.

AR LSS and Smartgun L73: While similar to the standard smatgun, the standard smartgun doesn't actually tell you where the gun is pointed. It shows you where the bullet will hit (it has a ballistics processor that uses the range finder to compute drop across X distance, compensate for perceived windage, etc.). These merely show exactly where the gun is pointed (just like the standard laser sight), just in AR rather than physically. The Smartgun L73 also integrates the gun's physical interface to receive commands across a smartlink system like a normal smartgun.

Low Power, High Power, and Match Grade Powders: While its a little odd, I used the subsonic ammo from arsenal as a base guideline for them. I'm not really sure if I like it yet, and I might change it after I get a little more feedback. When there is an example close to what I'm trying to do, I prefer to try and imitate the example most of the time. On that note, the range reductions on Low Power and Subsonic powder did manage to scamper off in the night. Low Power should reduce range by 30% and Subsonic by 20%.

Scan Resistant: Another case of lost text when formatting. There was at one point another paragraph on Grade 3. "Grade 3 round use a liquid propellant system that is contained in two reservoirs within a thin, deteriorating, casing. The rounds cannot be fire unless activated by twisting the casing and allowing the liquids to contact each other. This action may be performed with a Complex action, and a number of rounds equal to the runner's Agility may be activated. When activated, the rounds are treated as Grade 2 for purposes of detection."

Dart Rounds: Entry should be
Payload Type   Damage   AP   Availability   Cost
Darts   As Drug/Toxin   ---   4R   60¥
They're identical to Injection Darts, and are really not that useful unless you're trying to avoid using DMSO (since the dart rounds don't carry a full dose in each bullet).


As for grenade rifles, it breaks tradition, but I can really see someone use to either skill being able to use them effectively. On top of that, I really thought Longarms could use the love.

Being a niche weapon already, I didn't really see anything to be done with Assault Cannon ammunition. Given the size and nature of the weapon, normally it would be easier just to use a grenade launcher for any "specialty" needs that a different type of ammo would provide. I may give them a little love in one of the next installments, but I have the first half of the Knight Errant book I'm working to finish and a Melee piece coming ahead of my explosives piece.

Fizzygoo

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« Reply #7 on: <12-06-11/2214:29> »
reworking the layout is a pain so I'd rather not do it repeatedly

As the youngin's say, "OMFG! Like totally!" I hate the lack of precision in moving images and tables around in word (especially when the document starts getting large) and add to that I'm mildly red-green colorblind so all my color choices just freak the normal people right the f$#! out.

On the the points. I think I still need further clarification on a few things (or maybe I'm thinking of the wrong things/the wrong way and just not realizing it)...

Night Sights (pg 4, A Personal Touch), "A character using Night Sights may use the take aim action to negate the penalty from Partial Light." and you're saying to add "on the attack test" to clarify, so it would be "A character using Night Sights may use the take aim action to negate the penalty from Partial Light on the attack test." And you further clarify, "They don't illuminate the target..."

But it's my understanding that the Partial Light penalty is due to the lighting be so dim that it's hard to make out the target and these sights are not negating the bad lighting.

In other words, there's 3 (maybe more) types of ranged weapon modifiers:

1. Lighting/visibility conditions (only things that negate these conditions apply; flashlights, low light/thermographic vision, wind clears out the fog, it stops raining, etc.)

2. Movement modifiers (where gyroscopes, gas vents, etc help to reduce unwanted movement of the weapon)

3. Aiming modifiers (generally positive modifiers that help the character aim, from normal sights (no bonus), to laser sights, and smartgun systems to the take aim action).

So Night and Neon sights seem to me to be in the Aiming modifiers category. They help the shooter be more accurate, but if the lights are out the shooter is still shooting in the dark (or Partial light, or rain, etc.). They do not light up the target so they are not affecting the partial light modifier.

It seems to me that these sights would just give a bonus to the take aim action, so instead of +1 it becomes +2 but they wouldn't work with laser sights, smartgun systems, etc. Because the highlighted / improved iron sights (and the use of them) is null and void when you can just watch where the little red dot is (whether from a laser sight painting the target or the AR overlay on your glasses, contacts, retinas, etc.).

AR LSS and Smartgun L73: While similar to the standard smatgun, the standard smartgun doesn't actually tell you where the gun is pointed.  It shows you where the bullet will hit (it has a ballistics processor that uses the range finder to compute drop across X distance, compensate for perceived windage, etc.). These merely show exactly where the gun is pointed (just like the standard laser sight), just in AR rather than physically. The Smartgun L73 also integrates the gun's physical interface to receive commands across a smartlink system like a normal smartgun.

but..."[The smartlink] interacts with a smartgun system (p 322) to project the weapon's angle of fire into the user's vision, centering red crosshairs where the user is pointing and highighting perceived targets. The smartgun's laser rangefinder also calculates and displays the distance to the target." (SR4A, pg 333) and "The [smartgun system] makes use of advanced calculation software, allowing the user to aim even weapons with a highly ballistic firing arc (like grenades) with tremendous precision over any distance." (SR4A, pg 322).

This says to me that the standard smartgun tells you exactly where the gun is pointed,  "advanced calculation software" = "ballistics processor," etc. If there was more "room to play" between the bonuses from Laser Sight to Smartlink, then I think having a midclass smartlink system would be great...but Laser sight is +1, and Smartlink is +2...OKAY...hehe, so you're saying the AR LSS is just an AR laser pointer so there's no risk of the target seeing the infamous "red dot" but otherwise works just the same...got that, so no issue with AR LSS anymore but then why get the Smartgun L73? For ¥100 more one could just shell out for an external smartgun system and +¥475 for the Smartlink (minus the cost for the image link needed for the AR LSS [which should be noted as "still required" under the Smartgun L73 entry]).

So ¥325 for Smartlink L73 + Image Link and you can pop clips, track ammo, just like a standard smart system but only get +1 DP and no camera.
Or ¥900 for Standard Smartgun System + Smartlink.

Got it. Understood. :) I would just add some flavor text like "The poor man's answer to the smartgun system suite, the Smartlink L73..." and I would push the AR LSS tech back to 2066 - 2068 somewhere thereby removing "new" from "With the introduction of the new AR Laser Sight System..." as it gave me the impression of cutting edge when it's more of a simplified version of the standard smartlink.

Low Power, High Power, and Match Grade Powders: While its a little odd, I used the subsonic ammo from arsenal as a base guideline for them.

I stand corrected. :) I don't agree with how Arsenal did it, but you're keeping with canon on this so I retract my suggestions to you on this matter and elevate them to house rules level :)

Scan Resistant: Another case of lost text when formatting. There was at one point another paragraph on Grade 3. "Grade 3 round use a liquid propellant system that is contained in two reservoirs within a thin, deteriorating, casing. The rounds cannot be fire unless activated by twisting the casing and allowing the liquids to contact each other. This action may be performed with a Complex action, and a number of rounds equal to the runner's Agility may be activated. When activated, the rounds are treated as Grade 2 for purposes of detection."

Sweet. I'd still probably prefer something like the following to replace the second paragraph on Scan Resistant:

"Grades 1 and 2 each add their level to the threshold for chemical detection systems to detect them. Unactivated Grade 3 adds its rating as well and is akin to "Explosives/ammo contained in plastic" thereby imposing a -1 Dice Pool modifier to the detection system. Activated Grade 3 rounds are treated as Grade 2 for purposes of detection."

This would mean that an unactivated Grade 3 would require 5 hits by the detection system and since a rating 6 is top of the line...it's nearly impossible (only a 0.4% chance since a rating 6 would only be rolling 5 dice).

Dart Rounds: Entry should be
Payload Type   Damage   AP   Availability   Cost
Darts   As Drug/Toxin   ---   4R   60¥
They're identical to Injection Darts, and are really not that useful unless you're trying to avoid using DMSO (since the dart rounds don't carry a full dose in each bullet).

Since the darts are "miniature injection dart(s)" (A personal Touch, pg 11), I would suggest giving them a +1 or +2 AP...smaller length needles having a higher chance of not penetrating clothing, armor, etc. But the need to hit with multiple shots for a full dose is a good mitigating factor so maybe not.

As for grenade rifles, it breaks tradition, but I can really see someone use to either skill being able to use them effectively. On top of that, I really thought Longarms could use the love.

Agreed, my initial thought is that it should belong under Longarms first and foremost, for the love and the nature of the beast :) Which is why I'd argue just throw them under Longarms and forget Heavy Weapons in this case.

Being a niche weapon already, I didn't really see anything to be done with Assault Cannon ammunition. Given the size and nature of the weapon, normally it would be easier just to use a grenade launcher for any "specialty" needs that a different type of ammo would provide. I may give them a little love in one of the next installments, but I have the first half of the Knight Errant book I'm working to finish and a Melee piece coming ahead of my explosives piece.

Sweeeeet, looking forward to them.

Again, this is great stuff...I'm just narrowing in on the parts that have confused me or left me wondering.

:)
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Crash_00

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« Reply #8 on: <12-08-11/0227:38> »
Quote
As the youngin's say, "OMFG! Like totally!" I hate the lack of precision in moving images and tables around in word (especially when the document starts getting large) and add to that I'm mildly red-green colorblind so all my color choices just freak the normal people right the f$#! out.
Oh, I'm fairly close there on the colors. I'm not color blind really, but I see everything just a bit off from most people. I had some serious surgeries on my eyes once upon a time, and...well...it left a few side-effects.

That's the cool thing about publisher, each page doesn't actually have text on it until you drop in a text box. You can re-size that text box as you want to accommodate pictures, tables, graphs, etc. and move everything around all willy nilly when you like.

If you don't have the cash to spare for publisher, there is always Open Office. Its Writer isn't quite as powerful or intuitive, but it's much better than doing layout in word once you get use to it, and and of course being Open Office its more importantly, free. Between Writer and Draw you can effectively do just about everything Publisher can do if you set your mind to it (or at least anything you'd do for a fan -project in most cases).

As for the other things, 90% of it hasn't been playtested further really than me just doing a few simulated rolls and figuring up averages (one of the reasons I tried not to add more powerful options in and kept it more in the mid range of the power level). The thing with Night Sights (and Neon Sights consequently) is half experience and half personal philosophy when it comes to design really.

The visibility modifier doesn't just apply to the ranged attack. It also applies to anything that it could possibly affect (Perception, possibly Gymnastics or Running depending on the situation, etc). The attacker still takes the penalty to initially perceive the target (on the Perception check). So it isn't helping him find the target, its merely helping him aim at the target. Keep in mind, this doesn't reveal any extra information about the target.
Example: Jason blunders down a set of steps and finds himself slamming through a flimsy door. As he staggers to his feet he hears that oh so familiar hungry groan of a roaming ghoul. Glancing around the room he notices a dark shape moving slowly toward him. He whips out his Predator and lines his trusty night sights up dead center of the blob and pops off three quick rounds. The shape crumples over and Jason double times it out of the room not caring to check on what he just wasted.

The other bit I I felt was that adding an additional bonus (originally it was a +1 in dark conditions before I revamped it) either makes you shoot better than in normal light (ultrasound is only -1, so it would be a net +1 which is not really logical at all from my experience) or is exactly the same as just negating the penalty (+2-2 = 0). To me negating the penalty (and thus the little bit of extra math) is a step toward the simplicity that SR4A seems to strive for.

As far as the AR LSS, it wasn't ever meant to go head on with a smartlink. It really is just meant to overcome the traditional limitations of a normal laser sight (distance and environmental factors like rain and fog) by using AR instead of a physical laser. The L73 version of the smartgun system, uses this system for the main purpose of making it legal. Yes its not much cheaper than a normal smartgun as far as runners are concerned, but when it comes to your average stuffer shack joe that is just wanting to take his new Remington to woods during hunting season, not having to apply for a license and register with the authorities is a pretty big deal. Thinking about it in comparison, its like how many gun companies today will make normal handguns and then also make CA and MA compliant handguns (since those states have ridiculously strict laws on handguns).

I'm really leaning toward longarms for the grenade rifle. I also found a list with about five more house rules that should help fill out the last page. Most of them are pretty simple, but I've got one that brings back the old defaulting to a relevant skill from SR3 that will probably take a whole page to itself.

Crash_00

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« Reply #9 on: <12-20-11/0514:59> »
As a side not for future pieces, which would you prefer to see more of?

A.) Artwork (my skills are lacking, so it would be rather crude)
B.) Shadowtalk
C.) Story and Background