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[6E]Direct indirect connection

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Odsh

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« on: <05-05-21/1730:41> »
Can you use an intermediary to perform a direct connection to a device?
For example, someone else than then hacker does the direct connection, and then the hacker accesses the device remotely through his ally's commlink?
If for some reason this doesn't work wirelessly, how long can the direct connect cable be? Can for example a small drone drag and unwind a wire extension from the hacker's deck to the device he wishes to establish the direct connection to?

Stainless Steel Devil Rat

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« Reply #1 on: <05-05-21/1738:55> »
That's exactly what a data tap is for.  It's directly connected, and you're connected via wireless to your datatap, thereby gaining the direct connection it has.

If an ally has a data cable directly connected from one of their devices to the device you ultimately want to hack, it's mechanically the same situation as a data tap.  Assuming they've given you permission to use their device, otherwise you'd have to hack that first.
RPG mechanics exist to give structure and consistency to the game world, true, but at the end of the day, you’re fighting dragons with algebra and random number generators.

Xenon

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« Reply #2 on: <05-05-21/1746:47> »
From 6WE Matrix FAQ
How do I direct connect?
  • Physically connect to a device with a cable (your cyberdeck, cyberjack, datajack, and control rig all come equipped with a retractable fiber optic cable) or data tap
  • Use the technomancer echo Skinlink
  • Optional rule: wireless direct connection. If you are within 10 meters of the device, can detect the device (see matrix perception), and the device is wireless enabled you can form a “wireless direct connection”.

Michael Chandra

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« Reply #3 on: <05-06-21/0356:09> »
Note to self: Do not use that optional rule. I want a team to struggle to reach a high-positioned camera, or have a spydrone insert the data-tap.
How am I not part of the forum?? O_O I am both active and angry!

Finstersang

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« Reply #4 on: <05-06-21/0900:16> »
Note to self: Do not use that optional rule. I want a team to struggle to reach a high-positioned camera, or have a spydrone insert the data-tap.

You can have both. If the Camera is wireless-off and connected by cable, the "wireless direct connection" houserule obviously wouldn´t apply.

Or rather: Shouldn´t by conventional non-supernatural logic. Because I could see an Upgrade to the Skinlink Echo or a Complex Form for Technomancers that enables this as well  8)

(Side Note: This "10m wireless direct connection" idea is often not just thrown around for hacking purposes, but for device composition and ranges of PANs. Since the new "improved" rules for master-slaves-connections officially limits the number of slaves to the Data Processing Attribute of the master device, it has become practically impossible to set up a proper PAN with a commlink AS LONG as you assume that the slave limit is also the limit for stuff in you PAN in general - even with the best Commlink, you could at best set up a Firewall of 3 for 1 device or Firewall 1 for 3. This leaves so many gaps that even proper Hackers and/or riggers have trouble securing the team. Because of this, it is instead often assumed (i.e. houseruled) that the slave limit is only for remote stuff and that there is a radius around your commlink where it doesnt matter how much wireless gizmos you put in there.)
« Last Edit: <05-06-21/0902:06> by Finstersang »
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Odsh

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« Reply #5 on: <05-06-21/0927:25> »
That's exactly what a data tap is for.  It's directly connected, and you're connected via wireless to your datatap, thereby gaining the direct connection it has.

So the data tap can be used wirelessly? To me the primary purpose of the data tap is to establish a direct connection to devices connected to the cable you attach the data tap to.

I know it has a "wireless bonus", but these things do not make sense most of the time and are just an incentive for players to let their gear be hackable in exchange for some weird advantage. For example, why would you need a data tap to be wireless-enabled so that you can command it to self-destruct? Why doesn't it work when you are "only" directly connected to the datatap? To me it's part of the "magic" of the matrix you mentioned the other day that I don't even try to understand. It just is. And thus, I avoid making any assumption about it too, like assuming that a device can be operated remotely because it is wireless-enabled. That wireless connection could be used for other purposes too after all, like remote monitoring, downloading software upgrades, etc.


Stainless Steel Devil Rat

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« Reply #6 on: <05-06-21/1002:00> »
That's exactly what a data tap is for.  It's directly connected, and you're connected via wireless to your datatap, thereby gaining the direct connection it has.

So the data tap can be used wirelessly? To me the primary purpose of the data tap is to establish a direct connection to devices connected to the cable you attach the data tap to.

Both things are correct at the same time.

You physically clamp the data tap onto a cable. This necessarily means direct, physical contact, yes. However YOUR DEVICE can communicate wirelessly with the data tap.  The comm route between you and hacked device is thus wireless half of the way... between you and the data tap it's wireless, and between the data tap and the target device it's direct connected.  Thereby giving you a direct connection to the device by extension, despite the wireless connection between you and the data tap.

Anyone can string a data cable between two devices to establish a direct connection.  The data tap allows you to establish a direct connection remotely.  Hence, the exact same paradigm you envisioned of having someone string a cable between their commlink and the target device, and thereby gaining a direct connection via wirelessly going through the connected commlink.  This is doing the data tap's job without using a data tap.  (and technically may be easier in certain contexts, as data taps have to be attached to a data cable, which are not always easily accessible.  Then again, neither are data ports always something that are necessarily handy for John Q Public to just plug a cable into, either...
« Last Edit: <05-06-21/1007:12> by Stainless Steel Devil Rat »
RPG mechanics exist to give structure and consistency to the game world, true, but at the end of the day, you’re fighting dragons with algebra and random number generators.

Finstersang

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« Reply #7 on: <05-06-21/1013:30> »
Yup, that´s another thing that´s merely based on A.S.S.U.M.P.T.I.O.N.s ::)

Should be part of the lore. The pillars of the Matrix in 6th Edition:

A.rgle Bargle Foofaraw
"S.adly, [crucial information] was cut from the Core Rules."
S.upplement that probably won´t adress it either IF it ever comes out.
U.nsave PANs
"M.y tables use NPC hackers anyways."
T.echnomancer Hiveminds idk is this still canon?
"I.t worked like this in 5th Edition, so I guess..."
O.ffline hosts are a thing now. That´s an improvement, I guess?
N.ull Sect or something idk.

Both things are correct at the same time.

Good explanation btw.
« Last Edit: <05-06-21/1033:22> by Finstersang »
"Firing Line adds a ton of Perks that modify Attack and Defense ratings"

"Cool, does this mean that the whole AR/DR comparison has a bigger impact now?"

"Haha No :D"

Xenon

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« Reply #8 on: <05-06-21/1105:57> »
In previous edition it was explained that data tap could be either attached to a cable (both devices at the end of the cable at the same time) or to the universal access port of a device. It was also explained that you could either connect your cyberdeck to the data tap using its build-in cable (in which case you would get to ignore firewall ratings) or wireless (in which case you would be able to remote hack a wireless disabled device --which was great for technomancers that didn't yet have skin link echo and was probably also the reason why the technomancer archetype had one in his inventory).

In this edition it seem as if the intent is that if you attach a data tap (either to a cable or directly to a device) and then either connect to it via a cable from your cyberjack or turn the data tap wireless ON and connect to it wireless you will be able to directly data spike or spoof commands etc to the device (even if the device would normally be hidden on the inside a host) or hack the network the device was part of (even if the host was layered and you didn't have access on outer layers of the nested host).

Odsh

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« Reply #9 on: <05-07-21/1043:33> »
In previous edition it was explained that data tap could be either attached to a cable (both devices at the end of the cable at the same time) or to the universal access port of a device. It was also explained that you could either connect your cyberdeck to the data tap using its build-in cable (in which case you would get to ignore firewall ratings) or wireless (in which case you would be able to remote hack a wireless disabled device --which was great for technomancers that didn't yet have skin link echo and was probably also the reason why the technomancer archetype had one in his inventory).

So apart from the ignore firewall part (and connection to a device's port instead of a cable?), it's still exactly the same in 6E.
So why remove this from the data tap's description in 6E?

Oh, wait...

"S.adly, [crucial information] was cut from the Core Rules."
"I.t worked like this in 5th Edition, so I guess..."

MercilessMing

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« Reply #10 on: <05-07-21/1107:16> »
Did 5e ever come out with a data tap drone?  Something insect sized with a data tap payload that could attach to a device and then wirelessly transmit to your pan?

Stainless Steel Devil Rat

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« Reply #11 on: <05-07-21/1153:02> »
In previous edition it was explained that data tap could be either attached to a cable (both devices at the end of the cable at the same time) or to the universal access port of a device. It was also explained that you could either connect your cyberdeck to the data tap using its build-in cable (in which case you would get to ignore firewall ratings) or wireless (in which case you would be able to remote hack a wireless disabled device --which was great for technomancers that didn't yet have skin link echo and was probably also the reason why the technomancer archetype had one in his inventory).

So apart from the ignore firewall part (and connection to a device's port instead of a cable?), it's still exactly the same in 6E.
So why remove this from the data tap's description in 6E?

Oh, wait...

"S.adly, [crucial information] was cut from the Core Rules."
"I.t worked like this in 5th Edition, so I guess..."

What's usually the primary advantage of a direct connection is related to spotting devices "inside"a host: it allows you to spot them despite any event horizon, should ot be present!  Of course, the rules for spotting things inside a host from outside the host is convoluted and arcane....

Other than allowing you to "see" a device that you otherwise couldnt target (without first accessing the host), establishing a direct connection to a device controlled by a nested host will allow you to have access TO that nested host without first having to hack your way through the host network architecture.  That's new to direct connections as of 6e, so by extension data taps.

And as already implied, another main benefit to data taps is allowing witeless hacking of devices that are hardwired and not using wireless at all.
« Last Edit: <05-07-21/1155:36> by Stainless Steel Devil Rat »
RPG mechanics exist to give structure and consistency to the game world, true, but at the end of the day, you’re fighting dragons with algebra and random number generators.