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You need Silence to be magically protected against Ultrasound.

Also, a bag of flour is a cheap mundane tool to defeat invisibility, too :D
Previous Editions / Re: SR5 Shopping)))
« Last post by Hanzo on <06-17-21/0954:31> »
I guess you you're right that mostly this money issue is a fluff. We get together to have fun to shoot some bullets and fireballs, but  not to "I spend my legwork time with an accountant advisor to fix my money question". This is real lame.

Shopping on the Matrix can be done illegally on your SIN, but you can also use certified credsticks online. Plug into comm and shop away at any place that accept credsticks in the real world, which is pretty much any business that want to sell their goods.

Getting paid by Johnson can happen in several ways. Certified credsticks are easy, but he can also transfer money to your SIN of choice, and then you transfer that money to your credsticks and your SIN agent cobbles up a good data trail for you. Or you can use a shadow service to launder the money.

We don’t always enforce all this, mostly for occasional fluff if it makes the situation more interesting. Money is mostly just an AR swipe and they’re available on your comm.
You have a one hell of a system! I do really like that!

It's always up to DM and the party to decide if they want to play all these things. Do the "laundry", pay with credsticks, or just pay via Matrix transactions.

Whaen I started playing SR5 we did just that: Do you have a SIN with Licenses? If you do - go and buy everything  (except for F-things) you have a license for from a nearby store (with the SIN Check). If you don't  - tough luck. Go to a nearest black market and try to find things you need. As for the payment: in the first case - just write the money off your character's balance; in the second cases - fight through the availability test.

SIN - is not only the Negative Quality, but it also has a lot of positive moments. Why should you play only negative side of this one? Use it for your advantage! But also face the consequences.

General Discussion / Re: Investigation missions
« Last post by mcv on <06-17-21/0833:58> »
General, system-independent advice for any sort of investigative adventure: be super robust. Players will miss half of the clues. Of the ones they do find, they will misinterpret half. Be explicit. Repeat important clues. Rub it in.

You don't want to hand them everything on a platter, but you do need to hand it to them, or they will feel lost. Whatever direction of investigation they decide on, make it the right one. If something is meant to be particularly hard, make their second choice the right one.

It doesn't matter much what that approach is, even. Every clue can be found multiple ways. It's basically legwork. They can get the info from their own skills, their contacts, or a matrix search. It's all fine, as long as they put in some work.

And if they do put in work, make sure they find something important. If they succeed at something that was hard or took a long time, they will attach a lot of value to it. And quite often they will attach the wrong value to it; a random throw-away NPC will become their primary suspect. A vital clue will be considered unimportant or a red herring. Sometimes they have all the right data and will still draw the wrong conclusion.

Their characters may be Sherlock Holmes, but the players themselves aren't. So help them, but help them in a way that makes them think they did it. Be prepared to repeat clues if they miss or misinterpret them. But also allow them to follow the occasional red herring; they'll find plenty of them even without your help, and if you try to steer them away from them, it will feel like you're railroading them. They're allowed to be wrong sometimes, but after that, give them a way to get back on the right path again.

Note that neither spell works against Ultrasound sensors.
Disagree. An Ultrasound sensor would definitely fall under "technological sensors".

It's not vision, though, is it?

Would touch work? Can you feel someone who's invisible? Isn't that kinda what ultrasound sensors do?
Gear / Re: Must have gear/skills
« Last post by Aria on <06-17-21/0611:24> »
Duct tape!! Always useful if not on any SR equipment list...

Note that neither spell works against Ultrasound sensors.
Disagree. An Ultrasound sensor would definitely fall under "technological sensors".
Invisibility makes you invisible on the physical plane only. It doesn't effect your visibility in the two other worlds: astral and Matrix. (In fact, an active spell will make you more visible in astral.) To be invisible in the Matrix, you indeed need to run silent.

On the other hand, if you're not running silent, it doesn't make you visible, it makes your icons visible. Your icons are not you. It means people can hack your devices, but they can't target you. You can't aim at someone's physical body through the matrix.

Also, to be invisible to devices (cameras, drones), you need improved invisibility. Regular invisibility is a form of mind control that only works on people with brains. (I suppose you could argue that that could still make your icon invisible to people in the matrix, but it doesn't.)
You're right to rell him to turn his equipment off, or silent. Invisibility does nothing gor the matrix. If the mage is wondering around with his commlink active, a matrix perception test WILL find the matrix icon for said commlink.

Also: Invisibility comes in two flavors.

Invisibility: this only works on living targets, and not cameras.
Physical Invisibility: this one works on living targets, and cameras.

Note that neither spell works against Ultrasound sensors. Nor do they provide any use for non visual targeting. (Noise, smell, touch).

Further note:
Both spells are EASILY visible from the astral planr, so neither work on spirits, nor those using astral perception...

(Invisibilty is not the 'I win' button some mages think it is)
The thing is, Matrix icons aren't directly 1:1 correlated with their physical position. If you want to track the exact position, you need Trace Icon. They can roughly figure it out, and notice 'hey there's unexpected icons within 100m', assuming the place has enough border to not see the neighbours in the Matrix within 100m.

So basically you're made invisible, but you're still online in the Matrix (just like being invisible doesn't hide you in the Astral Plane), and while they can't just spot where you are, they can realise you're there.
General Discussion / Re: What to be mindful of when running 4E?
« Last post by mcv on <06-17-21/0355:32> »
I wouldn't port 5th edition Matrix rules to 4e. I'm running 5e with 4e adventures, and I keep running into situations that the 5e matrix rules simply cannot represent. Also, 5e matrix rules aren't particularly complex, but they are very confusing. Matrix rules are actually the one area where I heard good stuff about 6th edition, so if you want to tinker with the system, I'd look there.

That said, 4th edition matrix rules do make a lot of sense. They certainly feel more real than those of 5th edition. It really has only two problems:

  • It's super crunchy; doing stuff there takes a lot of time and rules.
  • It breaks with classic Shadowrun tropes like deckers and cyberdecks. You only need skill to hack. It does make sense in a way, but not everybody likes it.

But if you're set on 4th, by all means go for it. It's certainly not the worst edition of Shadowrun, and the 20th Anniversary Edition is apparently the best written/edited core rulebook of Shadowrun ever. Also, 4th edition timeline is super dense with tons of stuff going on, lots of great metaplot, great adventures, sourcebooks, etc.
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