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Run & Gun is Live!

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Mäx

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« Reply #105 on: <04-22-14/1147:03> »
Run & Gun isn't huge...

It's not huge, but it is a litllebit bigger then Arsenal, witch makes the it quite wierd that it has a lot less usable content then Arsenal did.


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jim1701

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« Reply #106 on: <04-22-14/1316:02> »
The gear layout in Arsenal was pretty efficient IMO and easy to read.  The gear layout in Run and Gun?  Not so much unfortunately.   :(

bull30548

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« Reply #107 on: <04-23-14/2318:15> »
So  here is a GM related question where  in run and gun do they address the armor stack issue?  My players are having a fit about the fact that the classic form fitting armor which has been an armor piece in their arsenal since, in some cases, Shadowrun began introducing it.  I honestly do not have a reasonable explanation for why that for example the player couldn't wear a bulletproof concealed vest (or half shirt in the case of formfitting) and an armor jacket and the two armors bonuses do not stack.  Now I am grounded in some reality realizing they couldn't or shouldn't try form fitting with military grade armor and say a long coat and expect all three to stack or even be compatible with one another but my first example is kind of hard to explain.  Any advice or perhaps a page number i can reference to address this since they make a legitimate argument?
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SlowDeck

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« Reply #108 on: <04-23-14/2328:18> »
Armor and Encumbrance, page 169 of the main rulebook.

I'm checking to see if Run and Gun has any alternative rules.
« Last Edit: <04-23-14/2331:48> by SlowDeck »
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Medicineman

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« Reply #109 on: <04-24-14/0349:13> »
 
Quote
Any advice or perhaps a page number i can reference to address this since they make a legitimate argument?

Houserule it !!
FF T-Shirt +1
FF 1/2Body +2
and FF Fullbody +3 (without cap &gloves) or +4 (with cap and gloves)
pretty easy ImO

with an easy Dance
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Namikaze

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« Reply #110 on: <04-24-14/0414:49> »
I honestly do not have a reasonable explanation for why that for example the player couldn't wear a bulletproof concealed vest (or half shirt in the case of formfitting) and an armor jacket and the two armors bonuses do not stack.

It's because the item only gives you the benefit of the best equipment.  Sure, you could run around with ceramic plates AND a Kevlar vest, but you wouldn't really be doing anything more than simply making it harder to walk.

The relevant section of the main book is thus:

Quote
If a character is wearing more than one piece of armor at a time, the value of the highest armor piece applies for determining Armor. All the other pieces do nothing but add a lot of bulk; too much can make Joe Shadowrunner look like the SoyPuff Marshmallow Man, slowing him down more than the protection is worth.

So basically the devs are saying that there could be rules for adding more armor, but then there'd have to be more rules for Encumbrance, which has always been a pain for bookkeeping.  If you want to do the bookkeeping, just do like the old system did and treat one half of the second-highest armor as a bonus.  Then use that bonus with the current Encumbrance rules.
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frankhlane

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« Reply #111 on: <04-30-14/0707:46> »
Hey guys, I really like SR5.  I'm a huge supporter.  Please let us help you proofread books in the future by releasing the whole book as a beta product before you release the full version.

I know you think nobody will buy it if it's released in total before the full version is released.  You are wrong, we give you our money because we love shadowrun.  If you let us proofread books, you can crowd source corrections that will prevent books from being released with a ton of problems like Run and Gun.

I'm sorry because at first glance I wanted to love this book.  I'm out there every day defending SR5, telling people it rocks and I love it.  However, between me and you, you gotta let your fans help you out on these products because there's a ton of things in them that are all fucked up.  It's so close too.  SR5 is close to being my favorite edition of Shadowrun and I'm an old fucking tryhard who's been pushing shadowrun since D&D was "Advanced".  However, I can't stand behind a "release quality" product that isn't release quality, not in the core book of SR5 and not in Run and Gun.  If this is the combat book for Shadowrun 5, I need you to repair it so that I can take pride in showing it to people who I'm telling to love Shadowrun as much as I do.

Please.
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Critias

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« Reply #112 on: <04-30-14/0906:34> »
The problem isn't a shortage of proofreaders, FWIW. 

Csjarrat

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« Reply #113 on: <04-30-14/0912:17> »
The problem isn't a shortage of proofreaders, FWIW.
Then they either need to actually start using proofreaders or use better ones because some of the errors show a glaring lack of editing and proofing.
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jim1701

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« Reply #114 on: <04-30-14/1016:44> »
The problem isn't a shortage of proofreaders, FWIW.
Then they either need to actually start using proofreaders or use better ones because some of the errors show a glaring lack of editing and proofing.

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Michael Chandra

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« Reply #115 on: <04-30-14/1430:47> »
The problem isn't a shortage of proofreaders, FWIW.
Then they either need to actually start using proofreaders or use better ones because some of the errors show a glaring lack of editing and proofing.
I don't think the quality of the proofreaders is the problem either. Some of the biggest issues with R&G and SR5 Core appear to me to be version changes and mistakes everyone easily misses.
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Namikaze

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« Reply #116 on: <04-30-14/1525:38> »
Someone mentioned this in a different thread a while back, but it still holds true.  There are certain terms that we should have defined, along with the mechanics that follow the terms.  For example, what does a Direct Neural Interface do?  Make it do that all the time.  It's partly because of inconsistency with terminology that we have see problems with editing.  At least, that's my opinion.  A glossary of Shadowrun terms would be handy, even if it's a giant undertaking to accomplish.
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frankhlane

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« Reply #117 on: <04-30-14/2116:52> »
The problem isn't a shortage of proofreaders, FWIW.

This might seem a little bit harsh, but if it isn't a shortage of manpower it's a shortage of quality work.

There is a reason why proofreaders work in certain ways, it's because of the "can't see the forest for the trees" effect that authors get.  It's really hard to proofread your own writing because your brain just overlooks stuff it "knows" to be fine.

If you're telling me that the authors were not in charge of proofreading their own work and that an entire team that did not take part in the writing allowed SR5 and R&G to be released in the state that they have been released, something is going fucking wrong over there that we are begging you to let us help you fix for free.

Do not get me wrong.  I love SR5.  I think R&G has a ton of great ideas and is like all of the ingredients of a delicious cake that were poured into a good looking frosting shell and then baked for 7/10th the required time.  Then, when the hungry fans cut into the mostly-baked mess and go "what the fuck this isn't finished yet" it is really really hard for said fans to tell their friends "SR5 is awesome, I love it, buy the book right now".  Instead, we have to make excuses like "SR5 is going to be awesome, I really like where it's going and hopefully most of the stuff that's wrong will get sorted out."

Now the problem is that as I'm sitting here, I've heard no news about SR5 getting re-released with the updates in it (which really change certain core rules quite a bit).  And woe to the poor fuckers who bought the physical SR5, they're hosed forever unless you're sending them free new books.  "Oh, we made a bunch of typos" is totally acceptable for errata.  "Oh, everyone pointed out that this set of recoil rules doesn't work as intended so we changed them" is a problem with releasing a product before it is finished.

Now take the fact that R&G introduces a TON of complex new shit and NONE of the complex new shit is actually finished and we have a big fucking mess on our hands, chummers, that COULD HAVE BEEN AVOIDED if you had released the full text of R&G to the fans here on the forums for proofreading.  We would have LOVED to save you the embarrassment and the discredit of releasing a book that's all fucked up.  We love Shadowrun, we want to do everything in our power to make it the best it can possibly be.

Please, for fuck's sake, let us help you.

If you honestly believe that nobody would buy the books if you released the beta first, you are straight up motherfucking wrong and being wrong in this instance is fucking up Shadowrun.  As it stands everyone is stealing the pdfs all over the internet anyway, so stand the fuck up, ask for the help that you need from the fans who want to help you, and release an acceptable product.  We've loved Shadowrun for a long, long time.  We want you to do it justice.  Stop being pigheaded, it's 2014, crowdsource the shit you need to crowdsource.
« Last Edit: <04-30-14/2127:30> by frankhlane »
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firebug

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« Reply #118 on: <04-30-14/2122:07> »
Someone mentioned this in a different thread a while back, but it still holds true.  There are certain terms that we should have defined, along with the mechanics that follow the terms.  For example, what does a Direct Neural Interface do?  Make it do that all the time.  It's partly because of inconsistency with terminology that we have see problems with editing.  At least, that's my opinion.  A glossary of Shadowrun terms would be handy, even if it's a giant undertaking to accomplish.

Something like that would solve a plethora of problems.  Quite big ones too, like 4th edition's rules about hacking cyberware and the importance of "is your connection to cyberware a DNI, or just a plain 'neural interface' that isn't like having a datajack?"  It would be a lot of work but, jeeze.
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Jeeze.  It would almost sound stupid until you realize we're talking about an immortal elf clown sword fighting a dragon ghost in a mall.

SlowDeck

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« Reply #119 on: <04-30-14/2142:32> »
Frankhlane, elsewhere on this site is a topic with an email in it you can use to apply. If you really feel you can improve the product, send them an email about working for them.
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