Shadowrun

Shadowrun General => Gear => Topic started by: JimJungle on <07-30-11/0505:36>

Title: Can Dragons Get Cyberware?
Post by: JimJungle on <07-30-11/0505:36>
Are they allowed to lose essence? Or does that mess them up? I was wondering where the Cyber Dragons were at. Can you imagine a Great Dragon with Deltaware? Beautiful. Great Dragon with Grapple Hands...
Title: Re: Can Dragons Get Cyberware?
Post by: farothel on <07-30-11/0510:38>
If I recall there's one with a datajack (Celedyr?), so it can be done.  But I'd doubt they can make cyber that can handle the shape change to metahuman form (except the aforementioned datajack).  Imagine dragon sized wired reflexes that have to be accomodated into a metahuman body.

Also I don't think there's much interest, given that all dragons are awakened, and getting too much cyber screws up your awakened potential.
Title: Re: Can Dragons Get Cyberware?
Post by: JimJungle on <07-30-11/0646:53>
Well then how about a Cyber Zombie Dragon?
Title: Re: Can Dragons Get Cyberware?
Post by: Angelone on <07-30-11/0957:55>
Eilohan was the dragon with the datajack, he posted under Cerberus on Shadowland. He's been in a coma since the crash. Also iirc the datajack made him go mumble mumble.
Title: Re: Can Dragons Get Cyberware?
Post by: Patrick Goodman on <07-30-11/1052:42>
Oh, you can go ahead and say it.  Eliohann was frelling psycho because of that datajack.

Oh, and to answer the OP: I reckon they can get certain pieces of cyber, but off all the creatures on God's green earth, they're the ones most closely tied to magic, IMO, and the notion of cyber for dragons just doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Even a little bit of cyber can throw off the balance of a magical creature's existence.

I mean, hell, if a simple datajack drives a dragon insane...and it did...can you imagine what some of the truly invasive stuff would do?

Yeah, you can do it...but why?!
Title: Re: Can Dragons Get Cyberware?
Post by: CanRay on <07-30-11/1058:11>
Eilohan was the dragon with the datajack, he posted under Cerberus on Shadowland. He's been in a coma since the crash. Also iirc the datajack made him go mumble mumble.
Coma hell.  He's gone!  Body's working, no brain activity.  No aura even, IIRC.
Title: Re: Can Dragons Get Cyberware?
Post by: Chrona on <07-30-11/1720:56>
Eilohan was the dragon with the datajack, he posted under Cerberus on Shadowland. He's been in a coma since the crash. Also iirc the datajack made him go mumble mumble.
Coma hell.  He's gone!  Body's working, no brain activity.  No aura even, IIRC.

Unless his minds just elsewhere~

In all seriousness though, are we -sure- he isn't astrally projecting/his body has gone into the state dragons used to survive the 5th world?
Title: Re: Can Dragons Get Cyberware?
Post by: Red Canti on <07-30-11/1859:05>
Now I'm curious, has anything less sapient than a human gotten Cyberware? Like the pet of a particularly rich bastard. Or Lab animal test subjects back when it was new technology?
Title: Re: Can Dragons Get Cyberware?
Post by: lurkeroutthere on <07-30-11/1902:10>
Yes, there are various rules for animal cyberware, Running Wild has some of the latest iterations.

Title: Re: Can Dragons Get Cyberware?
Post by: CanRay on <07-30-11/1904:34>
Now I'm curious, has anything less sapient than a human gotten Cyberware? Like the pet of a particularly rich bastard. Or Lab animal test subjects back when it was new technology?
Cybercurs (Cybernetically enhanced dogs) with slot you up!!!

IIRC, Hatchetman had an issue with them.
Title: Re: Can Dragons Get Cyberware?
Post by: Chrona on <07-30-11/1906:07>
Theres a few Cyber animals in running wild but every few pieces drives them more insane
Title: Re: Can Dragons Get Cyberware?
Post by: CanRay on <07-30-11/1911:46>
Which is an advantage from certain points of view...
Title: Re: Can Dragons Get Cyberware?
Post by: CanRay on <07-30-11/1912:08>
...

*Headdesk*

I want to make stats for the K-9000 now...
Title: Re: Can Dragons Get Cyberware?
Post by: Trenchknife on <07-31-11/1445:47>
"Here at Mitsuhama we put the tin in Rin Tin Tin."
Title: Re: Can Dragons Get Cyberware?
Post by: JimJungle on <08-01-11/0010:16>
OK, what about Dragon that was born after Crash 2.0 that grew up to be a Technomancer? Is that possible? On a related note, how long does it take for Dragons to mature?

How about a Drone thats the size and shape of a Great? That would be an army stopper right there. And who would win in a fight, a Drone Dragon or the real thing? The Drone doesnt have Magic, but you could pack alot of hardware into that thing.

I'm curious, like a cat. That's why my friends call me Whiskers.
Title: Re: Can Dragons Get Cyberware?
Post by: CanRay on <08-01-11/0013:32>
OK, what about Dragon that was born after Crash 2.0 that grew up to be a Technomancer? Is that possible?
Nope.  Magic and Resonance don't mix.

And Dragons are instinctively magical, it's part of their very nature.  That's how they're able to race bullet trains in Japan without wings.  ;D
Title: Re: Can Dragons Get Cyberware?
Post by: KarmaInferno on <08-01-11/0013:47>
I'm not certain there HAVE been any dragon births in all of SR history.

All the ones featured so far have all been pretty darn old.

As in, the ones who are a few thousand years of age, those are the youngsters of the dragon set.



-k
Title: Re: Can Dragons Get Cyberware?
Post by: CanRay on <08-01-11/0015:02>
There's been dragon EGGS found...

Read "Never Trust An Elf" for the details on that.  And why you pick your fights carefully.

And never, ever slot with the Bot'Kham!!!
Title: Re: Can Dragons Get Cyberware?
Post by: Critias on <08-01-11/0028:24>
OK, what about Dragon that was born after Crash 2.0 that grew up to be a Technomancer? Is that possible?
Nope, unless you choose to hack the setting a bit and have some fun with houserules.

(1) There's no sign that new dragons have been born that recently, IIRC.  Remember, it was just 2065 that the Crash 2.0 happened.  Humans born since then aren't of Shadowrunner-age yet, much less dragons.

(2)  Nothing with a Magic score can have a Resonance score.

Quote
On a related note, how long does it take for Dragons to mature?
Probably a while, given their lifespan.
Title: Re: Can Dragons Get Cyberware?
Post by: JimJungle on <08-01-11/0035:08>
OK, forget the dragon, are there other sentient non-metas that could be TMs? Like a sasquatch. Or a CyberSquatch. That would be wicked.
Title: Re: Can Dragons Get Cyberware?
Post by: CanRay on <08-01-11/0037:26>
OK, forget the dragon, are there other sentient non-metas that could be TMs? Like a sasquatch. Or a CyberSquatch. That would be wicked.
If they aren't naturally magical to begin with, then it might be possible, yes.

They can, however, accept cybernetics (At the usual penalties) if said cybernetics are modified for their bodies.  There's talk of a Pixie with a Datajack, IIRC.
Title: Re: Can Dragons Get Cyberware?
Post by: Red Canti on <08-01-11/0143:01>
OK, forget the dragon, are there other sentient non-metas that could be TMs? Like a sasquatch.
Sweet Christmas.
Title: Re: Can Dragons Get Cyberware?
Post by: KarmaInferno on <08-01-11/0402:26>
Yeah, most of the Magically Active critters have at least one point of Magic, and as such they cannot be Technomancers.

There are Resonant creatures, though. That cat you see lounging in front of the local Stuffer Shack node? Might actually be a cat.


-k
Title: Re: Can Dragons Get Cyberware?
Post by: Lacynth40 on <08-01-11/0646:46>
Wait, how does cyber and those one point of magic creatures work? The dual natured ones. I always went with if their essence dropped below one, they lost their dual-natured-ness. Please tell me that it isn't if they lose one point of essence, they lose their dual-natured-ness. Or I have to redesign a ghoul...
Title: Re: Can Dragons Get Cyberware?
Post by: CanRay on <08-01-11/0957:05>
Wait, how does cyber and those one point of magic creatures work? The dual natured ones. I always went with if their essence dropped below one, they lost their dual-natured-ness. Please tell me that it isn't if they lose one point of essence, they lose their dual-natured-ness. Or I have to redesign a ghoul...
Typically those with cybernetics have boosted their magic rating, otherwise, they lose their dual-natured-ness, and die as they're magical creatures and need that magic level to survive, IIRC.
Title: Re: Can Dragons Get Cyberware?
Post by: Stahlseele on <08-01-11/0959:17>
ghouls don't need dual natured to survive . . if they get cyber-eyes at least . .
Title: Re: Can Dragons Get Cyberware?
Post by: KarmaInferno on <08-01-11/1000:38>
If it's got Magic points it loses Magic if Essence is lost, same as for any other creature.

Unless Infected have some special exception I'm not aware of, if you want to retain any Magic based abilities you have to buy the Magic attribute up high enough to offset any Essence losses.

I know magically active Vampires have this vicious cycle of having to increase their Magic attribute over and over just to stay ahead of their constant Essence loss.



-k
Title: Re: Can Dragons Get Cyberware?
Post by: Lacynth40 on <08-01-11/1020:35>
Hmm... Just have to remember to make the cyber installation BEFORE the infection in the background story... And remember to buy up that point of magic before installing any more, so they have the point to lose... Would really suck just throwing that much karma down the crapper though. And it looks like those infected with essence loss don't lose magic when their essence drops from essence loss. But, installing cyber does make them lose the magic... Weird. But, anyway, back to OP, and how this relates, even the lowly ghouls lose their special spark when just a smidge of cyber is installed. Can't imagine a dragon being able to handle cyber well. Heck, even Unckie Dunkie didn't try, and he was all about being modern.
Title: Re: Can Dragons Get Cyberware?
Post by: CanRay on <08-01-11/1036:56>
Dragons cheat, however.  They just ride shotgun in someone else's head while THEY'RE in the Matrix.
Title: Re: Can Dragons Get Cyberware?
Post by: Lacynth40 on <08-01-11/1040:48>
Or a 20XL trode net... Does the same thing if I remember right...
Title: Re: Can Dragons Get Cyberware?
Post by: CanRay on <08-01-11/1043:23>
Sorta-kinda-not really.  Dragons perceive far more than metahumans do, and ASIST is designed with humans in mind...  Possibly metahumans as well.  Certainly not dragons.

At least with the one-remove, it doesn't feel like everything is bland, or that they just had been crippled in a sense or three.
Title: Re: Can Dragons Get Cyberware?
Post by: JimJungle on <08-01-11/1623:09>
So how about that Drone Dragon?
Title: Re: Can Dragons Get Cyberware?
Post by: Patrick Goodman on <08-01-11/1708:08>
I know magically active Vampires have this vicious cycle of having to increase their Magic attribute over and over just to stay ahead of their constant Essence loss.
I'll have to double-check a couple things, but I don't think it's quite as vicious a circle as it might at first appear. Not to say it's not a bitch, but I don't think it's quite that bad...I'll try to get back to you soonish on this one.
Title: Re: Can Dragons Get Cyberware?
Post by: Chrona on <08-01-11/1715:37>
I know magically active Vampires have this vicious cycle of having to increase their Magic attribute over and over just to stay ahead of their constant Essence loss.
I'll have to double-check a couple things, but I don't think it's quite as vicious a circle as it might at first appear. Not to say it's not a bitch, but I don't think it's quite that bad...I'll try to get back to you soonish on this one.

Vampires can get Essence 12 and magic only goes down if Essence<Magic afaik
Title: Re: Can Dragons Get Cyberware?
Post by: FastJack on <08-01-11/2128:59>
I know magically active Vampires have this vicious cycle of having to increase their Magic attribute over and over just to stay ahead of their constant Essence loss.
I'll have to double-check a couple things, but I don't think it's quite as vicious a circle as it might at first appear. Not to say it's not a bitch, but I don't think it's quite that bad...I'll try to get back to you soonish on this one.

Vampires can get Essence 12 and magic only goes down if Essence<Magic afaik
And, because they have the Essence Loss weakness, they lose 1 point of Essence every lunar cycle.
Title: Re: Can Dragons Get Cyberware?
Post by: Chrona on <08-01-11/2136:32>
I know magically active Vampires have this vicious cycle of having to increase their Magic attribute over and over just to stay ahead of their constant Essence loss.
I'll have to double-check a couple things, but I don't think it's quite as vicious a circle as it might at first appear. Not to say it's not a bitch, but I don't think it's quite that bad...I'll try to get back to you soonish on this one.

Vampires can get Essence 12 and magic only goes down if Essence<Magic afaik
And, because they have the Essence Loss weakness, they lose 1 point of Essence every lunar cycle.

Yeah I just mean try to keep your essence>Magic
Title: Re: Can Dragons Get Cyberware?
Post by: Charybdis on <08-02-11/0116:05>
As a side note, there are sapient, magically active creatures that can have Cyberware

Drakes and Shapeshifters for example, can get Cyberware (as outlined in Runner's Companion), but the 'ware is not available when they shift from their natural form.

Ergo, a Drake PC can have Cyberware a go-go in natural Human form, but it is magically disabled and inert when in Drake form.
Also, Shapeshifers can get Cyber/Bio in their natural ANIMAL form, but it goes all inert and useless when Shapechanged into a metahuman

So, seeing as the precendent is set for magical creatures to have cyberware (and Dragons have certainly had some minor work publicly done), it's certainly possible. However when dragon Shifts into human-talky mode, all implanted ware goes intert

Note: This is probably a good thing, can you imagine the size of the ware required for a dragon's wired reflexes?! Now imagine a 20' Cyber-spinal cord sticking out of a human-sized flesh-puppet.... ooey-gooey to say the least...
Title: Re: Can Dragons Get Cyberware?
Post by: CanRay on <08-02-11/1113:49>
Wouldn't Shapeshifters "Heal" the cybernetics out of their own bodies?  IIRC, fillings in one character popped out after being put in.

Unless, and this is nasty, they're made of a silver alloy!
Title: Re: Can Dragons Get Cyberware?
Post by: Charybdis on <08-02-11/1748:09>
Wouldn't Shapeshifters "Heal" the cybernetics out of their own bodies?  IIRC, fillings in one character popped out after being put in.

Unless, and this is nasty, they're made of a silver alloy!
Critters with Regeneration (eg Vampires) can still get cyberware implants, but it must be Delta-ware (or else it does indeed get painfully 'Healed' out of their system)

However nice, expensive, customised Deltaware will stick around.
Title: Re: Can Dragons Get Cyberware?
Post by: Trenchknife on <08-02-11/1831:40>
Critters with Regeneration (eg Vampires) can still get cyberware implants, but it must be Delta-ware (or else it does indeed get painfully 'Healed' out of their system)

However nice, expensive, customised Deltaware will stick around.

That just implies all sorts of nastiness to be.  <begins pondering the very capable aide de campe to a Great Dragon>
Title: Re: Can Dragons Get Cyberware?
Post by: CanRay on <08-02-11/1832:23>
"This thing is so much a part of my system now, it heals itself!"  "But...  It's a cyberarm."  "Look, Delta Clinics are almost as much magic healing processes as medical ones.  Don't ask stupid questions."
Title: Re: Can Dragons Get Cyberware?
Post by: Charybdis on <08-02-11/1914:58>
"This thing is so much a part of my system now, it heals itself!"  "But...  It's a cyberarm."  "Look, Delta Clinics are almost as much magic healing processes as medical ones.  Don't ask stupid questions."

ShapeshifterPC in human form: Doc, I need you to check out my grapple-claw

Doc: *runs a cyber-scanner over the human*
                  You don't have a cyber-claw, go away
Shapeshifter-PC: *Shifts to bear form, rears up on hind legs and points to 3' chrome paw with 5" claws*

Doc: Yeah, I'm  not sure I can fix that
       *runs screaming*
Title: Re: Can Dragons Get Cyberware?
Post by: CanRay on <08-02-11/1923:24>
"Damnit, Chewie!  We loose more Street Doc contacts like that."

"Rawr-rorrah."

"Yes, yes, I know you're sorry."
Title: Re: Can Dragons Get Cyberware?
Post by: Charybdis on <08-02-11/1937:38>
"Damnit, Chewie!  We loose more Street Doc contacts like that."

"Rawr-rorrah."

"Yes, yes, I know you're sorry."
I don't think Chewie and Harrison are talking anymore....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWTtMdXAazs
Title: Re: Can Dragons Get Cyberware?
Post by: Chrona on <08-02-11/1944:22>

I don't think Chewie and Harrison are talking anymore....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWTtMdXAazs

I love that vid
Title: Re: Can Dragons Get Cyberware?
Post by: JoeNapalm on <08-04-11/1517:33>
Dragons cheat, however. 


Truer words have never been spoken.  ;D

Sounds like you've been talking to players in my old D&D campaign...

Youth and skill are no match for age and guile!


-Jn-
Ifriti Sophist

Title: Re: Can Dragons Get Cyberware?
Post by: Charybdis on <08-04-11/1828:58>
Dragons cheat, however. 
So do GM's but Shhhhhh!  :-X
Title: Re: Can Dragons Get Cyberware?
Post by: CanRay on <08-04-11/1916:32>
If you ain't cheatin', you ain't tryin'.
Title: Re: Can Dragons Get Cyberware?
Post by: Charybdis on <08-04-11/1924:35>
If you ain't cheatin', you ain't tryin'.
That's what my wife says.... no..wait...

Dammit...  >:(