Shadowrun
Shadowrun Play => Rules and such => Topic started by: Zsinj on <11-08-10/1656:56>
-
Quick question, If I have titanium bone lacing (str/2 +3P in unarmed combat) and wear shock gloves (5S unarmed damage) do these 2 damages stack? Am I doing physical and stun damage together? The same question with shock frills which are just fur strips, do the shock frills stack with the physical damage?
-
No.
The way I understand it is that you have to choose whether each given attack is going to be an attack to use the gloves/shock frills (shock and stun damage), or to use your raw strength (physical damage).
So, iirc - they don't stack.
-
I agree with Voydangel, best I can interpret, no, you don't stack the "I punch/kick/head-butt" damage with the "I attack with shock-gloves" damage or the "I brush them with shock frills" damage.
Grabbing someone with a shock-glove is not the same thing as karate-chopping them. And if you DID want to apply that Str/2+3P through the fragile electronics of a shock glove, I'd probably say "bye-bye glove".
Think of it as using different techniques, you aren't bringing your full strength to bear (or else they'd include strength in the damage for a shock glove to begin with), you're pressing a shock-pad to them.
If you don't like that common-sense explanation, the other perspective is they're three different weapons (shock glove, shock frills and head-butt) with three different damage values. You have to choose which one you're using.
All that being said, nothing explicitly states this in the book, other than the damage codes (5S(e) for shock gloves, Str/2+3P for titanium punching). Therefore, your GM could say that when you hit someone with shock-gloves or frills, you can follow through with the full force (Str/2+3P) on top of that in a single throw. But, don't try that at my table.
Related, but side note: there is no damage notation for shock frills and the pricing is not put in terms of "cost x Rating", though Armor Modifications specifically states that everything except chemical seal is rated 1 - 6. Should probably be brought up in the errata forum. I suppose they could argue that you use your unarmed combat damage (in this case, Str/2 + 3P) since the description says you use unarmed Combat. However, that contradicts the "rating from 1 to 6" in the description above. All of this is on page 327 of SR4A, btw.
EDIT: Posted the question about Shock Frills DV in the errata forum. GM Gods help me if I stupidly overlooked something obvious.
-
No.
The way I understand it is that you have to choose whether each given attack is going to be an attack to use the gloves/shock frills (shock and stun damage), or to use your raw strength (physical damage).
So, iirc - they don't stack.
Thats correct, either you try to hit them or you try to touch them with your shock glove, can't do both of those thinks at the same time.
Chaemera: My copy of the SR4A at least list shick frills damage in page 327(316 in the non anniversary edition) as 6S(e)
-
Thanks, thats what i figured but dont see a clarification in the book.
It did seem odd that i'd do more damage with my fist than with a sword Unless i'm using my chi... but then that would be a diffrent rpg.
thanks
-
Chaemera: My copy of the SR4A at least list shick frills damage in page 327(316 in the non anniversary edition) as 6S(e)
Serves me right for posting before I perform the required RTFM check, errata post deleted.
-
I came across this post and decided to through my 2 cents in. I think the two should stack in some cases. Example if I am bitch slapping some one and I have titanium bone lacing (str/2 +3P in unarmed combat) and have a Str of 4 I am going to do 5p worth of kinetic damage, now if at the same time I have shock gloves on, which go off on impact then when I bitch slap some one they should have to absorb 5P of kinetic damage and 5S of electric. Another example is if I am a troll and I go and bear hug some one to death while wearing shock frills the person being hugged should have to take damage from me crushing there internal organ and additional damage from my shock frill turning them into a crispy critter. I am not saying the damage should stack all the time but in situation like the above they should. I also agree that the rough treatment of the shock glove should destroy them after awhile or they shouldn't be allowed to be recharge.
-
"This pair of insulated plas-fabric gloves has a wire mesh that discharges electric current when triggered by impact."
Which leads me to believe that the electrical shock is discharge when you punch some one, not by mere touch. While this can mean that the damage replaces the damage of the fist, it can also be read as dealing both sets of damage at the same time.
Personally, after reading what electrical damage does, I am inclined to allow the damage to stack, but reduce the shock glove's damage. Getting zapped by an electric weapon ain't no joke in Shadowrun, and you can drop a target with one hit without dealing a single box of damage. My suggestion is to allow shock gloves to be used as a touch attack, or with a punch. If it is used with a punch, the character deals physical damage, and the target must suffer the secondary effects of an electrical attack (Body + Willpower [3] or drop on the ground twitching, -2 dice even if they succeed, etc). Use the 5S(e) rating in any case where the character's strength wouldn't apply.
But that's just the way I see it.
-
For firearms the dv of stick and shock rounds replaces the dv of the gun pg 324 SR4A. So I say its one or the other but not both.
-
Nothing in the game deals damage on both tracks. The key here, is that there is clarification. A Shock Glove attack does 6S(e) damage. Your strength, implants, etc. have nothing to do with it. Your unarmed attack does Str/2+modifiers damage. You can only attack with one in any given action unless you split your dice pool.
Personally I would think the shock gloves would have to use a relatively small shock pad for the area you strike with. Otherwise in a brawl they would be just as risky as the mono-whip, because you're constantly getting jostled around, blocked, shoved, etc. All it takes is one unfortunate lock and you'd be tasing yourself into mr. yellowpants if it covered the entire fist.
Long story short, main reason is always going to be for balance. If you really want to have both damages, see if your GM will let you split you dice pool between both weapons for the strike.
-
Technically the shockpad should be in the palm area of the glove or else the chances are too high to accidentally use it on yourself. To combine the damage with a normal melee attack, you then have to hit them with the palm, which is too much a restriction for efficient brawling. It could imply a -x damage penalty to your unarmed attack that its damage will be insignificant compared to the shock damage.
-
Nothing in the game deals damage on both tracks.
Thats the most important Point (ImO)
If you go the "Evil Way" you end up with poisoned Vibrokatanas of fiery Schock that come with a Damage Code of
9P BOD only& STR/+5P AP -4 & 3P AP 1/2 & 6S (E) AP 1/2
With all Dances in One
Medicineman
-
An Additional Idea that could easily come up- could shock gloves go off if you use a touch-range spell on an enemy?
-
SR4 limits stacking attacks, not always logically, in the name of game balance. Maybe they go a bit far - in SR3, you did normal damage in addition to shock damage, with a slight reduction to the power of the former from wearing the gloves. So it's certainly something that can be house-ruled. Be aware that you will be powering up certain builds, though. If you go that route, I would suggest the shock glove damage as a flat damage value, with the "normal" punch being increased in power by the net hits, and with the opponent getting to soak the two sets of damage separately, rather than having to soak a massive combined amount of damage.
-
SR4 limits stacking attacks, not always logically, in the name of game balance. Maybe they go a bit far - in SR3, you did normal damage in addition to shock damage, with a slight reduction to the power of the former from wearing the gloves. So it's certainly something that can be house-ruled. Be aware that you will be powering up certain builds, though. If you go that route, I would suggest the shock glove damage as a flat damage value, with the "normal" punch being increased in power by the net hits, and with the opponent getting to soak the two sets of damage separately, rather than having to soak a massive combined amount of damage.
Yeah, it'd certainly power up the ork phys ad I built (haven't played and probably won't) as an experiment to give him shock gloves--thus the 'Don't Tase Me Roll'--on top of his 12P DV and -3 AP.
-
SR4 limits stacking attacks, not always logically, in the name of game balance. Maybe they go a bit far - in SR3, you did normal damage in addition to shock damage, with a slight reduction to the power of the former from wearing the gloves. So it's certainly something that can be house-ruled. Be aware that you will be powering up certain builds, though. If you go that route, I would suggest the shock glove damage as a flat damage value, with the "normal" punch being increased in power by the net hits, and with the opponent getting to soak the two sets of damage separately, rather than having to soak a massive combined amount of damage.
This seems like a very reasonable way to go about things. Using this idea, I'd also allow stun batons to do damage as a club and flat stun damage as well, because... well... duh.
-
Technically the shockpad should be in the palm area of the glove or else the chances are too high to accidentally use it on yourself. To combine the damage with a normal melee attack, you then have to hit them with the palm, which is too much a restriction for efficient brawling. It could imply a -x damage penalty to your unarmed attack that its damage will be insignificant compared to the shock damage.
Uh... Palm attacks not powerful? Now you got me rattled up there :D I have used palm attacks half of my 10-year martial arts career and have come to the conclusion they're in some ways *more* powerful than fist attacks...
Anyways, I can see it this way: you hit with full force, be my quest and do both damages, but you can say bye to those gloves/baton... Unless you have bought melee hardening for them. ;) I just think it should cost at least twice as much, given the weakness of structure on most electric devices. And even then you could, for example, roll a d6 and get them destroyed on a roll of 1.
-
Anyways, I can see it this way: you hit with full force, be my quest and do both damages, but you can say bye to those gloves/baton... Unless you have bought melee hardening for them. ;) I just think it should cost at least twice as much, given the weakness of structure on most electric devices. And even then you could, for example, roll a d6 and get them destroyed on a roll of 1.
Given the low price tag, I'm sure most Melee Adepts would say "Thank you, sir!" and carry around several spare pairs at all times.