Shadowrun

Catalyst Game Labs => Catalyst's Shadowrun Products => Topic started by: VonEros on <09-07-13/0202:18>

Title: New Copy of SR5 has pages falling out!
Post by: VonEros on <09-07-13/0202:18>
Hello. I am not sure if this is the correct thread for this. I purchased SR5 at Dragon-Con over Labor day weekend. I have really enjoyed the book and have treated it with the respect due a volume of that cost and quality. However, pages are starting to fall out of the book. I am barely 40 pages into it! Is there anything that can be done for this? I can give you what ever kind of verification data you need to verify that I bought the book legit. Just let me know. Thanks. You guys are doing great work and have done right by the fans and the source material.

VonEros
Title: Re: New Copy of SR5 has pages falling out!
Post by: AJCarrington on <09-07-13/0802:56>
I strongly suggest you contact the CGL BattleShop directly:

http://www.battlecorps.com/BC2/static.php?page=5 (http://www.battlecorps.com/BC2/static.php?page=5)
Title: Re: New Copy of SR5 has pages falling out!
Post by: VonEros on <09-09-13/0954:29>
Thank you, AJ.

I sent word off to them. The binding seems to be getting worse. UGH. I hope someone can help, though I am not sure what can be done other than replacing the book...
Title: Re: New Copy of SR5 has pages falling out!
Post by: ambarmetta on <09-17-13/1102:44>
I finally received my pre-order yesterday afternoon and had time to read through it.  Love the book, except this issue with pages falling out of the standard Hard Cover copy is happening to me too.  Specifically, a chunk of pages around p. 84 (you know, the all important character creation section) is loose. 

I am sneding an email to Randall since I had tried that address earlier.  he's out doing promotion or something, presumably, so he probably can't deal with that...I hope they can address this, but they probably won't until after the street date hits, which pushes back any kind of replacement options.

Will update when I hear back--IF i hear back.
Title: Re: New Copy of SR5 has pages falling out!
Post by: VonEros on <09-30-13/1550:34>
Yeah. I have not heard word one either. The binding continues to let go. I am looking into alternate means of addressing the issue. Prolly going to have to sleeve all of the pages and put the whole thing in a binder. Not really pleased with that option. For one, it will set me back another $20 or $30 bucks in page sleeves. Anybody else seeing this? Has there been ANY official response? Please, help!
I will not front here and say that this will turn me off of buying goods from you guys. I am a gaming junkie and you guys sell the pure "blue" stuff. I just wanted you to know that we are customers and we are being let down. I hope I here from someone soon. Thank you.
Title: Re: New Copy of SR5 has pages falling out!
Post by: Ralff11 on <09-30-13/2033:04>
I had the exact same issue with my LE copy (red dragon cover).  Within a week, the pages started falling out near the first fold out.  By a week later, a large section had come out.  Contacted Catalyst and never heard back.  Contacted Battlecorps support and they are sending me a new copy.

I'm concerned that it's some defect with the binding and that my new copy will have the same issue.

Has anyone seen a standard copy to see if the binding differs?  I know the fourth edition I have hasn't given me any issues, and, though I'm not hard on my books at all, I need a book that will stay in one piece, or I might as well have gotten the corebook pdf only and printed it...
Title: Re: New Copy of SR5 has pages falling out!
Post by: VonEros on <10-01-13/0900:28>
Agreed! I have, what I believe is, the official first printing. My 4th Ed. book was a beast. What happened to that binding? I paid $60 for this book. Yeah, the art is lovely. Yeah, I love the fic included. However, if all of the production money got spent before the binding was secured, that seems silly.
Title: Re: New Copy of SR5 has pages falling out!
Post by: Michael Chandra on <10-01-13/1003:51>
That last line is a bit silly. It's not as if Catalyst bound the book themselves and went cheap there to save money, they hired a printer and apparently the printer screwed up the job.
Title: Re: New Copy of SR5 has pages falling out!
Post by: VonEros on <10-02-13/1555:43>
Mayhap that is the case. However, I have not seen word one from Catalyst on this. I have sent several emails to the company through, what I have been told are, the correct channels. The fact is that I have book that is disintegrating a month after I bought it, and I have not even read the whole thing yet. That is bloody silly.
Title: Re: New Copy of SR5 has pages falling out!
Post by: Michael Chandra on <10-02-13/1749:18>
It is. But so is assuming Catalyst went cheap due to being broke.
Title: Re: New Copy of SR5 has pages falling out!
Post by: CanRay on <10-03-13/0012:43>
"Made In America" used to mean something.

I think it means something different nowadays.
Title: Re: New Copy of SR5 has pages falling out!
Post by: VonEros on <10-03-13/0902:41>
I am not implying that they are broke. I know that they are not broke. Sure. They aren't pulling down WOTC kinds of cash, but they are not hurting. What I am upset about is the lack of explanation from Catalyst and the lack of quality in the product that we have purchased.
Whatever the reasoning behind the bad batch of books, someone from Catalyst should say something to the poor sods that got them.
Maybe a :
"We are going to offer you guys a download of the PDF"
or a:
"We can offer you another copy of SR5 at cost"
or even a:
"We are embroiled in a heated debate with the binding company to get them to cover what losses any kind of recompense we might offer you, as a consumer, would incur".
Hell! At this point, I would feel better about it if I got a:
"We can not offer you anything at this time. We are very sorry that this happened and we hope that you continue to support our releases".
Does any of that sound silly or unreasonable?
I get that you are on their Demo Team, I have plans to run SR5 at conventions in 2014, but this is a bad way to run a business.
Title: Re: New Copy of SR5 has pages falling out!
Post by: Michael Chandra on <10-03-13/1001:58>
Demo Team isn't really an official employee thing though, it's not why I'm defending them. And I too am surprised they haven't made any statements yet, but on the other hand they might be trying to inventarize the size of the problem before action is taken. I don't know how swamped they are right now so do not know why exactly no response was given and what they're currently internally debating on the manner. So yes, I am feeling rather uncomfortable under the fact all I hear so far is "they haven't said anything yet".

But that part is their responsibility, while responsibility for the wrong binding lies with the printer, not with Catalyst. And it was only that last part that I was responding to. I perfectly understand frustration and I understand the way you feel about the lack of information from Catalyst, and have no intent of downplaying that. All I am saying is that it's rather weird to assume Catalyst deliberately went cheap on printing the $100 books.
Title: Re: New Copy of SR5 has pages falling out!
Post by: ambarmetta on <10-09-13/0019:46>
Not to drag a potentially dead topic around, but I did eventually receive a replacement copy, thanks to Dawn and whomever else she worked with at CGL Cares.  To the point, the replacement standard has sufficient binding.  Something tells me it won't last.

There was some confusion just getting someone to let me know if it had shipped or not.  For instance, I was given the UPS tracking number of the original order (not going to help), and had to insist again.  Still they came through for me on this matter.  What is relevant here is that I love Shadowrun.  I want to love Fifth Edition, despite the massive need of errata, interesting layout decisions, intial binding issues and clear rush-to-market this book came through. 

I'm not sure I can, honestly, because of the kind of pulling teeth it has felt like so far to get responses.  Still, they did respond.  Additionally, and this comes from the consumer mentality thing, I have less confidence in purchasing any additional pre-orders if Catalyst doesn't proofread prior to publication.  I know other companies drop the PDF first, and have time to edit it -- I'll admit to not knowing how rare that scenario is in the current RPG world, but I do know it is possible. 

I will say that Catalyst came through, but after a few days mulling it over, I think I'm going to pass on my concerns over their handling of this incident and the book back to them.  Hopefully we see an improvement in this matter by December, because what they were trying to do is amazing. 

if you haven't received your replacement, folks, keep at it. 
Title: Re: New Copy of SR5 has pages falling out!
Post by: Bull on <10-09-13/0330:31>
One thing to keep in mind is that unfortunately, CGL is a VERY small company with only a handful of full time employees, and of those only two or three don't do something else on the side.  Most of us are part time and have other, full time jobs we maintain.  Customer Service is not an area that has a full time position, as most of the time it doesn't require that much attention.  this is one of those rare times that it does, and you can bet the volume of emails going in is through the roof, between real issues and people who are simply very impatient (Understandably so, but still).

There's also the fact that we don't ship and warehouse our own product.  We have another company, PSI, that handles that.  But I'm not certain of the exact logistics, but having another party involved can't help speed up inquiries.

I do know that Jason, Dawn, and the rest of CGL are working behind the scenes to follow up on issues and try to handle them, as I occasionally see a few of the emails flying back and forth. But, it takes time.  Sorry :(

Bull
Title: Re: New Copy of SR5 has pages falling out!
Post by: AJCarrington on <10-09-13/1042:01>
Really appreciate you taking the time Bull...very much appreciated. Perhaps, if the opportunity presents itself, you could pass along to Jason and/or Randall the value of having them pop in periodically. While I don't speak for everyone, I think that it is fairly safe to say that there is frustration about the "perceived" lack of response from CGL. Even popping in to say that the issues have been heard and are being worked on would be of value, in my opinion.
Title: Re: New Copy of SR5 has pages falling out!
Post by: VonEros on <10-09-13/1317:33>
Agreed! Thank you, AJ and Bull. I am still waiting for any kind of response to my emails. I do hope to hear something from someone soon.
Title: Re: New Copy of SR5 has pages falling out!
Post by: Mauler on <10-11-13/1700:59>
I have read my Limited Edition once. Carefully. I am rather disappointed.  :(

(http://www.1w6.de/upload/1/oleolesuperbuch.jpg)

Title: Re: New Copy of SR5 has pages falling out!
Post by: Tacitus05 on <10-12-13/1404:41>
I have the special edition myself, that I picked up at GenCon. By the end of the con, the gold in the letters on the binding and the cover had partially rubbed off. Kinda upset that I spent 100$ for that.
Title: Re: New Copy of SR5 has pages falling out!
Post by: bigity on <10-12-13/1601:33>
Were the books all printed from the same printer in China?
Title: Re: New Copy of SR5 has pages falling out!
Post by: CanRay on <10-12-13/1929:51>
Were the books all printed from the same printer in China?
IIRC, CGL was getting a US Printer.  Don't quote me on that, I only have the PDF.

*Pokes Bull with my cane*
Title: Re: New Copy of SR5 has pages falling out!
Post by: Ralff11 on <10-12-13/2319:10>
Looks familiar Mauler ... mine after a week or so (sent a whole collection over to battlecorps). 

Just having it open started pulling large chunks out of the book.  Still not sure if the binding was supposed to be stuck to the back like it was (you can see that opening the book tore it away from the bookcover).

(http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj191/ralff11/SR/WP_20130925_007.jpg)

My order was switched back to "processing" at BattleCorps after talking to customer service.  It's been a couple weeks, so I'm hoping that the delay means that they'll send me one after talking to the printers. I'm getting a lot of reading done on my phone  :D
Title: Re: New Copy of SR5 has pages falling out!
Post by: Tacitus05 on <10-13-13/0033:29>
Wait..are all these the Mayan additions?
Title: Re: New Copy of SR5 has pages falling out!
Post by: ahayford on <10-16-13/0848:04>
My regular edition is starting to do that exact same thing on the spine...and I've only read it up to the Matrix section. I've been very gentle with it....I should probably stick to pdfs, but I love the hard copies. Something about the binding methods used on these huge books just does not hold up. I should remember that and throw down for better binding or just get the pdfs.
Title: Re: New Copy of SR5 has pages falling out!
Post by: Michael Chandra on <10-16-13/1013:33>
That's the first time I heard about the regular edition doing this. I really hope this does not become a pattern. :<
Title: Re: New Copy of SR5 has pages falling out!
Post by: VonEros on <10-16-13/1037:23>
My copy is also the regular edition. I have been meaning to post images, but keep not having time.
Title: Re: New Copy of SR5 has pages falling out!
Post by: Redwulfe on <10-18-13/2338:59>
I'm having the same problem with my book only opened the book three times and the pages pulled away for the spine. Contacted catalyst and they contacted me the same day to get it fixed. Very pleased at the response.

Red
Title: Re: New Copy of SR5 has pages falling out!
Post by: Reaver on <10-19-13/0406:38>
ok, so this is sounding like a printer issue that has been made aware of and probably fixed in the next batch then if Redwulfe got a response back in the same day....


which means all you poor guys that posted last month got the ball rolling for everyone else (good job!!!)


But hey, at least CGL is trying to take care of you (us), but it definitely isn't an easy thing that can be resolved in a day or a week give the out sourced printing, and limited staff of CGL..
Title: Re: New Copy of SR5 has pages falling out!
Post by: VonEros on <10-22-13/1237:11>
Red,

Who did you email? I have not gotten a single response. Please, let me know. Thank you.

VonEros
Title: Re: New Copy of SR5 has pages falling out!
Post by: Bull on <10-26-13/1805:39>
This was posted to another forum (for completely unrelated reasons), but found it interesting and apropos.

(http://i.imgur.com/IJNhuXo.jpg)

Not saying this is why there are problems, but it's something to consider.
Title: Re: New Copy of SR5 has pages falling out!
Post by: Lord Nikon on <10-27-13/1042:46>
I have to say, I got this book a week ago and I've been reading it only to have some pages getting pulled away. I had this happen with another book once and I thought nothing about it until it fell apart. Those were the old orange spine AD&D books from the '80s. This book is nicely done, huge and costly. So I am adding my name to pot here for falling apart.. :(

Edit: I emailed the company and they responded quickly, with a wonderful resolve. :)
Title: Re: New Copy of SR5 has pages falling out!
Post by: VonEros on <10-30-13/1247:14>
What gets me is here we are, thirty posts and over a thousand reads later, and we still have no official word on what can, will, or even might be done to resolve what is clearly not an isolated issue. That is really disappointing. Even with a skeleton crew, you would think someone could have said something by now...
Title: Re: New Copy of SR5 has pages falling out!
Post by: Redwulfe on <10-30-13/1609:32>
The e-mail I used was the battle corps contact one. They resolved the issue quickly and though my new book is not falling apart yet I can see why they are. Typical books of this size have the pages glued to a price of cloth that run the length of the book and is not directly glued to the spine. Go to your local game store and you will se it very easily especially on hero system books. This allows the pages to flex away from the spine and not have issues. In the Shadowrun book this peice of cloth is replaced with a peice if papers tick and it is in some of the books I looked at glued excessively and fixed to the spine which when opens the pages try to flex and the papers layers give way causing it to pull apart and leave parts of it still attach to the spine. This weeker peice of paper doesn't hold the pages strongly enough. Or at least that is my opinion based on less than a years work in a printing company many and I mean many years ago so please take what I say with a large grain of salt.

All in all I am very happy with the way the company fixed my purchase and after checking out the books in the store I found one that wasn't glued directly to the spine and it is holding up really well so far. Crosses fun gyres :)
Red
Title: Re: New Copy of SR5 has pages falling out!
Post by: Warlordtheft on <10-31-13/1551:51>
I bought mine at my FLGS and am in my first read through. 3 pages fell out, 1 near the insert, 2 a couple of pages later. Should I still go through battle corps? Are they going to send me a new copy?
Title: Re: New Copy of SR5 has pages falling out!
Post by: CanRay on <10-31-13/1831:39>
I has a copy now!  YAY!!!  ;D

I'll tell you how it holds together.
Title: Re: New Copy of SR5 has pages falling out!
Post by: Lord Nikon on <11-17-13/1939:24>
Well.. update on mine. I emailed Catalyst directly, and got a nice wonderful response, and they even sent me a replacement book. By the time it came, my original book the first half of the book the pages had been sliding out. I tried a few things from various book sites about getting some type of glue and placing them back in, but the pages came out again.

The replacement book after two readings, has stayed together. But I followed the how to open the book based on the picture shown in here in an earlier post. I am very scared to use it. I mostly am using the falling apart one.

Funny.. my 2e softcover that was beat to hell and thrown around the table back when I was a young kid, hasn't had one page fall out..  I think maybe the problem is its hardcover, and such a large book. I wonder how the softcover book is. I did see a SC book on ebay.. I wonder if it was a POD from drivethru or something.
Title: Re: New Copy of SR5 has pages falling out!
Post by: Crunch on <11-18-13/1238:42>
Almost certainly the Origins pre release softcover.
Title: Re: New Copy of SR5 has pages falling out!
Post by: Gardensnake on <11-18-13/1334:34>
Almost certainly the Origins pre release softcover.

There is a retailer-incentive soft cover as well. For every so many copies a retailer ordered (10 I think), they received a soft cover version of the hard back. It doesn't have the origins blurb on the cover.

William
Title: Re: New Copy of SR5 has pages falling out!
Post by: Lord Nikon on <11-18-13/1553:47>
Almost certainly the Origins pre release softcover.

There is a retailer-incentive soft cover as well. For every so many copies a retailer ordered (10 I think), they received a soft cover version of the hard back. It doesn't have the origins blurb on the cover.

William

I saw a bunch selling on ebay, for almost the same price as the hardcover. I wonder if the softcover will stay together better. I think all those pages and the hardcover is what may be pulling the pages.
Title: Re: New Copy of SR5 has pages falling out!
Post by: Reaver on <11-19-13/0905:58>
while I like the nice hardcover book.... in many ways I like the softcover books better.


I have some Robotech and Rifts books from back in the 80's... and they are still in good shape given their age and abuse they have endured over the years.
Title: Re: New Copy of SR5 has pages falling out!
Post by: Bull on <11-19-13/2000:08>
The Softcover feels very, very fragile.  It's a VERY large, very heavy book, and it always feels like the very weight of the tome is going to rip itself apart whenever I pick it up.  My softcover is safely stored on the shelf now.
Title: Re: New Copy of SR5 has pages falling out!
Post by: Dr. Meatgrinder on <11-19-13/2037:09>
The Softcover feels very, very fragile.  It's a VERY large, very heavy book, and it always feels like the very weight of the tome is going to rip itself apart whenever I pick it up.  My softcover is safely stored on the shelf now.

I had the same feeling after handling the Origins Special Edition a few times.  I now carry a hardcover when I go to events.  The interior spine is starting to show signs of wear at the bottom (as if the pages might come loose), but I'm thinking of trying some bookbinding glue to reinforce it a bit.

I still don't think it'd be safe to pick up the hardcover by one cover, but I tend not to treat my books like that anyway.
Title: Re: New Copy of SR5 has pages falling out!
Post by: Airswing on <11-19-13/2218:42>
I too have had a fifth edition fall apart.

Which contact did you use? Its been a week for me and i have heard nothing from them yet.

Its a shame because i was just getting into the character creation when it all went to pieces.
Title: Re: New Copy of SR5 has pages falling out!
Post by: Lord Nikon on <11-21-13/2014:30>
The Softcover feels very, very fragile.  It's a VERY large, very heavy book, and it always feels like the very weight of the tome is going to rip itself apart whenever I pick it up.  My softcover is safely stored on the shelf now.

I see. I have the pathfinder Beta book from Gencon that is the same size as the Pathfinder book, and that still holds after all the abuse my group did to it. Its almost the same size.. if they can do it, catalyst can too :)
Title: Re: New Copy of SR5 has pages falling out!
Post by: Michael Chandra on <11-21-13/2049:48>
Interesting bit, by the way, I got a chance to look at a german copy (girlfriend can handle German well so she got a German player of ours to order one for her, at 20 euros instead of 58 it's a bargain), and they bound in sections there. So rather than all pages glued directly to the back, they glued it in bits, and from the side it looks like a repeated u-shape of paper. Not sure how much sense that description makes to people.
Title: Re: New Copy of SR5 has pages falling out!
Post by: Reaver on <11-22-13/0858:16>
Interesting bit, by the way, I got a chance to look at a german copy (girlfriend can handle German well so she got a German player of ours to order one for her, at 20 euros instead of 58 it's a bargain), and they bound in sections there. So rather than all pages glued directly to the back, they glued it in bits, and from the side it looks like a repeated u-shape of paper. Not sure how much sense that description makes to people.

basically the pages are bound in groups right? say 50 pages at a time if I am following you....
Title: Re: New Copy of SR5 has pages falling out!
Post by: Michael Chandra on <11-22-13/1022:16>
Yeah, something like 30 to 40 pages per group I think.
Title: Re: New Copy of SR5 has pages falling out!
Post by: Ralff11 on <11-22-13/2225:52>
Update on mine.  Got my replacement copy a couple weeks ago.  Been reluctant to open it but finally did today since I have a group coming over.  Looks like it's the same as the original book (with the pages attached to the back).  Just opening the book as gentle as I can, I can see the glue want to pull away from the back.  I'll be babying this copy too I guess...
Title: Re: New Copy of SR5 has pages falling out!
Post by: Airswing on <11-23-13/0640:04>
So what is being done about these faulty books?

Has the printer been held accountable for the abysmal quality of these books?
Title: Re: New Copy of SR5 has pages falling out!
Post by: Michael Chandra on <11-23-13/0803:47>
basically the pages are bound in groups right? say 50 pages at a time if I am following you....
I tried to count them and it's 16 groups, can't really see well at the end whether the final group is bigger or smaller. So that's roughly 32 pages per group.
Title: Re: New Copy of SR5 has pages falling out!
Post by: Reaver on <11-23-13/0849:58>
So what is being done about these faulty books?

Has the printer been held accountable for the abysmal quality of these books?


That would be up to MR. Hardy and the other product managers. And we will probably never hear about what, if anything is done with/to/about the printers.
Title: Re: New Copy of SR5 has pages falling out!
Post by: CanRay on <11-23-13/1641:14>
I guess 500-pages of awesome is just too much.
Title: Re: New Copy of SR5 has pages falling out!
Post by: Reaver on <11-23-13/1738:11>
I guess 500-pages of awesome is just too much.

agreed.
Title: Re: New Copy of SR5 has pages falling out!
Post by: Lord Nikon on <11-24-13/0926:12>
Well something needs to be done. Its cool they are replacing the book as a one time courtesy, but its going to turn off new people or returning people.

If the Pathfinder folks can make a book with nearly the same amount of pages and its stood up to massive playing and reading time, so can this company. :) But I love them either way.
Title: Re: New Copy of SR5 has pages falling out!
Post by: Reaver on <11-24-13/0936:20>
Well something needs to be done. Its cool they are replacing the book as a one time courtesy, but its going to turn off new people or returning people.

If the Pathfinder folks can make a book with nearly the same amount of pages and its stood up to massive playing and reading time, so can this company. :) But I love them either way.

actually, 2 of the 3 pathfinder books that my group has have fallen apart. Admittedly, not in weeks or days (took a couple of months)... so this problem is not exclusive to just Catalyst.
Title: Re: New Copy of SR5 has pages falling out!
Post by: Mara on <11-24-13/1224:39>
Well something needs to be done. Its cool they are replacing the book as a one time courtesy, but its going to turn off new people or returning people.

If the Pathfinder folks can make a book with nearly the same amount of pages and its stood up to massive playing and reading time, so can this company. :) But I love them either way.

actually, 2 of the 3 pathfinder books that my group has have fallen apart. Admittedly, not in weeks or days (took a couple of months)... so this problem is not exclusive to just Catalyst.

Yes, My pathfinder core book is having issues. Not as bad as described, mind you. Best book binding I have seen is on the l5r corebook where it has separated from the spine, but the thick binding string is holding it together so well, you wouldn't even notice.
Title: Re: New Copy of SR5 has pages falling out!
Post by: witchdoctor on <12-08-13/1246:11>
I had this issue with two books in a row. The first book lasted about a week before the pages started coming loose which I took back to the store and the owner replaced it for me and the second book immediately started losing pages. I just e-mailed catalyst to see what they can do for me, here's hoping.
Title: Re: New Copy of SR5 has pages falling out!
Post by: Airswing on <12-08-13/1950:32>
I had this issue with two books in a row. The first book lasted about a week before the pages started coming loose which I took back to the store and the owner replaced it for me and the second book immediately started losing pages. I just e-mailed catalyst to see what they can do for me, here's hoping.

They were slow to get back to me but replaced the faulty books.

Just hang in there.
Title: Re: New Copy of SR5 has pages falling out!
Post by: VonEros on <12-09-13/1128:31>
It seems that, since I bought my book from a vendor, I get to pound sand. I have not had any response to any of my emails and do not expect one at this point. I guess that the next book I order will have to come through Catalyst directly. If I order more. a $60 loss is quite the hit for me these days.
Title: Re: New Copy of SR5 has pages falling out!
Post by: risoarisco on <12-10-13/1549:58>
hey guys, im here because in this forum is where i found the info to get in touch with catalyst for my faulty book and just today Randall, the guy whose email is in the webpage answer me, so in case anyone in catalyst is reading, thanks guys!  and for the other users who havent heard from them, in my experience the answer came after 2 weeks, but it sure did, so hang in there, and i can assure you, the people in charge is cool,understands the problem and are eager to help.

in my case i put in the mail photos of the book and a copy of the receip, so you all should do the same in case you havent
Title: Re: New Copy of SR5 has pages falling out!
Post by: Shamie on <12-11-13/1014:04>
Hello, i wanna ask if this "pages falling out" problem still continues? Im currently arriving to the states and i was thinking of buying a copy of SR5 but now im not sure as im gonna be in the states for only 1 months so if my book starts to fall appart i dont think im gonna be able to contact battle corps in time.

How common this problem is?

Thank you
Title: Re: New Copy of SR5 has pages falling out!
Post by: Crunch on <12-11-13/1357:55>
It doesn't appear to be very common. My copy certainly hasn't had any issues, and only a handful of people have reported problems.
Title: Re: New Copy of SR5 has pages falling out!
Post by: Shamie on <12-11-13/1606:59>
It doesn't appear to be very common. My copy certainly hasn't had any issues, and only a handful of people have reported problems.

thanks for the answe  :D
Title: Re: New Copy of SR5 has pages falling out!
Post by: All4BigGuns on <12-11-13/1614:37>
Mine started pulling away from the spine, and I put a little super glue in between there and it hasn't started pulling away again as yet. Probably wouldn't help if loose pages have started coming out, but I just thought that some who were having some issues might appreciate it.
Title: Re: New Copy of SR5 has pages falling out!
Post by: witchdoctor on <12-11-13/1750:58>
I had this issue with two books in a row. The first book lasted about a week before the pages started coming loose which I took back to the store and the owner replaced it for me and the second book immediately started losing pages. I just e-mailed catalyst to see what they can do for me, here's hoping.

They were slow to get back to me but replaced the faulty books.

Just hang in there.

Ok, so I talked to someone named Dawn via email and I explained that I bought it from a local gameshop and she asked for an order number so she can replace it. I don't have one since I bought my copy in person in an actual physical brick and mortar store. I've replied to her twice since she asked for the order number and have gotten no response at all. What can I do to get my book replaced if Dawn won't answer me.
Title: Re: New Copy of SR5 has pages falling out!
Post by: All4BigGuns on <12-11-13/1810:19>
I had this issue with two books in a row. The first book lasted about a week before the pages started coming loose which I took back to the store and the owner replaced it for me and the second book immediately started losing pages. I just e-mailed catalyst to see what they can do for me, here's hoping.

They were slow to get back to me but replaced the faulty books.

Just hang in there.

Ok, so I talked to someone named Dawn via email and I explained that I bought it from a local gameshop and she asked for an order number so she can replace it. I don't have one since I bought my copy in person in an actual physical brick and mortar store. I've replied to her twice since she asked for the order number and have gotten no response at all. What can I do to get my book replaced if Dawn won't answer me.

Has the most recent one actually lost any so far, or is it just starting to come away from the spine? If the latter, you could try what I posted--above--that I did.

Gotta say though, even looking at the picture someone posted in this thread, it doesn't seem as bad as the old White Wolf books were.
Title: Re: New Copy of SR5 has pages falling out!
Post by: witchdoctor on <12-11-13/2318:41>
I had this issue with two books in a row. The first book lasted about a week before the pages started coming loose which I took back to the store and the owner replaced it for me and the second book immediately started losing pages. I just e-mailed catalyst to see what they can do for me, here's hoping.

They were slow to get back to me but replaced the faulty books.

Just hang in there.

Ok, so I talked to someone named Dawn via email and I explained that I bought it from a local gameshop and she asked for an order number so she can replace it. I don't have one since I bought my copy in person in an actual physical brick and mortar store. I've replied to her twice since she asked for the order number and have gotten no response at all. What can I do to get my book replaced if Dawn won't answer me.

Has the most recent one actually lost any so far, or is it just starting to come away from the spine? If the latter, you could try what I posted--above--that I did.

Gotta say though, even looking at the picture someone posted in this thread, it doesn't seem as bad as the old White Wolf books were.

No I've legit had every page I've open to come loose. A good 1/4 of the book is just pages I've slid back in with the desperate hope that I can get a replacement somehow. I figured I could try babying the book until the second printing came out and it looks like since I've been hung out to dry I may just have to live with not having a book until the second printing comes out. Needless to say I am EXTREMELY unhappy with how Catalyst has tried to help me.
Title: Re: New Copy of SR5 has pages falling out!
Post by: VonEros on <12-12-13/0935:43>
I am having the same issue. I told them upfront that I bought mine through a Con booth. The first 1/4 of the damned book has fallen out. I have heard noting at all. I would really like to have, at least, heard that they cold not help me due to the the third party sale. Very poor customer service. Also, this issue is clearly not that rare. There are many people who have viewed this and a good number that have said they are having similar problems. Some of these folks had the Super Phat Mayan Edition fall to tatters. An official statement would be nice...
Title: Re: New Copy of SR5 has pages falling out!
Post by: witchdoctor on <12-12-13/1754:29>
I am having the same issue. I told them upfront that I bought mine through a Con booth. The first 1/4 of the damned book has fallen out. I have heard noting at all. I would really like to have, at least, heard that they cold not help me due to the the third party sale. Very poor customer service. Also, this issue is clearly not that rare. There are many people who have viewed this and a good number that have said they are having similar problems. Some of these folks had the Super Phat Mayan Edition fall to tatters. An official statement would be nice...

Exactly, I paid good money for this book and I'm by no means rich so paying $60 for a book I can't even use is kind of a problem.
Title: Re: New Copy of SR5 has pages falling out!
Post by: Crunch on <12-13-13/1038:53>
If you bought it at a brick and mortar why not go talk to the store owner? He can probably contact his distributor and at the very least get order numbers etc.
Title: Re: New Copy of SR5 has pages falling out!
Post by: Lord Nikon on <12-16-13/0809:58>
My new copy is holding up nicely. I did have that problem as well with my first book, but I wrote in, provided photos of how it looked and explained and they said me a book. I contacted CGL directly and not battlecorps or whatever the site is.
Title: Re: New Copy of SR5 has pages falling out!
Post by: PeterSmith on <12-16-13/0935:47>
I contacted CGL directly and not battlecorps or whatever the site is.

BattleCorps and Catalyst Game Labs are both part of InMediaRes.
Title: Re: New Copy of SR5 has pages falling out!
Post by: bull30548 on <01-06-14/1438:17>
Well I just had mine fall apart on me to and it was like a section of it just plopped out. Surprised the hell out of me as the section that came free I wasn't even looking at. I have contacted battleshop as that is who I ordered it through. Ironically this was my second book as it appears my first order got lost.  I have high hopes for the company and am just glad I have a PDF copy as well to use as I wait a response.
Title: Re: New Copy of SR5 has pages falling out!
Post by: Reaver on <01-06-14/2119:56>
I've had my book since 2nd week of release. It had been abused to heck and back (12 flights, stuffed into a backpack with electrical equipment, had glycol spilled on the back cover)

And all my pages are still firm for the amount of abuse the book has taken.

Heart goes out to those of you that are having problems.
Title: Re: New Copy of SR5 has pages falling out!
Post by: Mara on <01-06-14/2149:27>
I've had my book since 2nd week of release. It had been abused to heck and back (12 flights, stuffed into a backpack with electrical equipment, had glycol spilled on the back cover)

And all my pages are still firm for the amount of abuse the book has taken.

Heart goes out to those of you that are having problems.

I remember when TacOps for BattleTech came out, and they were having similar issues with some of the books. I think it is
something with whoever does their binding. Some of the larger books, a small, but noticeable, percentage have issues. Then
there are people like me who get the good luck and the books hold together through years.
Title: Re: New Copy of SR5 has pages falling out!
Post by: Tkeela on <01-13-14/1944:54>
Seen about 12 purchased SR5 books, 3 had pages problem, ick, that's a bad pool to judge from:(
Title: Re: New Copy of SR5 has pages falling out!
Post by: witchdoctor on <01-13-14/2320:38>
To give people an update... so far catalyst has done nothing to fix my issue. I've been two months without a usable book and the only response from catalyst is that I should go through channels despite me repeatedly explaining to them that the store I bought it from has no usable copies to give them. I have since gone back an additional time and got another copy, using the technique described earlier to limber up the spine only to have it immediately fall apart. When I informed the store owner about this he pulled all the books he had and will not sell them until he can replace them with copies he is confident they will not have this problem, He is currently pursuing thing on his end to get replacements from his supplier that might not have this issue. Any suggestions at this point are welcome as I have sent my sixth email to catalyst about this and have seen no attempts or willingness for them to fix their mistake.
Title: Re: New Copy of SR5 has pages falling out!
Post by: Michael Chandra on <01-14-14/0632:22>
The problem likely is that Catalyst cannot help you, since you're not the one who bought from them. Since you bought from a store, unfortunately this has to go up and down the chain.
Title: Re: New Copy of SR5 has pages falling out!
Post by: witchdoctor on <01-14-14/0754:10>
But the store literally cannot help me. It's a catalyst product and they should at least support their product, I bought this product because I trusted that I would at least have a usable product, I do not and it's due to a manufacturing defect that is ultimately the result of a Catalyst decision.
Title: Re: New Copy of SR5 has pages falling out!
Post by: Michael Chandra on <01-14-14/0830:41>
They support the product, as is shown by the people who received replacement copies when their directly-bought product failed. However, the ones they're supporting likely have to be the people who bought the product, which here would be the Distributor from whom the shop got its supplies.
Title: Re: New Copy of SR5 has pages falling out!
Post by: Crunch on <01-14-14/1037:50>
But the store literally cannot help me.

Why can the store not help you? The typical process here (as an old retail hand) would be to return the item to the store and either get a replacement copy or your money back.
Title: Re: New Copy of SR5 has pages falling out!
Post by: witchdoctor on <01-14-14/1744:25>
One the store can't get new copies and they have replaced my book twice so far and the same thing has happened with all three copies I have gotten there and two they have no idea if they're going to be reimbursed by the vendor. They are a small store so they can't just eat the cost of all the defective books they sold, ie all of them, and still be able to stay afloat.

They support the product, as is shown by the people who received replacement copies when their directly-bought product failed. However, the ones they're supporting likely have to be the people who bought the product, which here would be the Distributor from whom the shop got its supplies.

I've sent them pictures of the defective book as requested and have not heard anything from them at all. Even a "I'm sorry we can't replace this book as you didn't buy it from our store." would be preferable to the silence I've gotten from them so far.
Title: Re: New Copy of SR5 has pages falling out!
Post by: VonEros on <01-15-14/1555:05>
Witchdoctor,

I am in exactly the same boat. I started this thread and I have heard a lot of great advice here about how to get this addressed. I have tried all of it. I have heard not a single word from Catalyst. I did not have the advantage of buying from a "brick & mortar" store that I can go back to. I bought my copy of SR5 at a Con booth this past Dragon-Con. Apparently, that means that I get to eat that $60. Really nice. I am not going to say anything hollow, like "I will never buy form this company again". However, I will say that this has been a really bad customer experience.
Title: Re: New Copy of SR5 has pages falling out!
Post by: Tuoweit on <01-19-14/1621:16>
I haven't had pages fall out of my collector's edition (or whatever they're calling it) yet, but it's only a matter of time - the paper backing has mostly ripped free of the bulk of the pages, and they're only held together by glue and scraps at this point.

I don't expect Catalyst to be able to do anything about my book, nor am I faulting them for the binding failing, but I would like to say I'd be happy to spend a few bucks extra to get future books bound like my old 1st Edition AD&D books whose bindings are still flawless - the pages appear to be stitched directly together and the whole glued to the cover, I think it's what's known as an oversewn binding - despite the abuse heaped on the books themselves.  That kind of binding doesn't lay as flat as the so-called "perfect" binding, but it sure lasts.  Maybe I can find a local bookbinder to do that for me with this one....
Title: Re: New Copy of SR5 has pages falling out!
Post by: Reaver on <01-19-14/1626:37>
I honestly think its the size of the book...

My pathfinder book bit the dust after a few months of heavy use and it was 400+ pages as well.
Title: Re: New Copy of SR5 has pages falling out!
Post by: Tuoweit on <01-19-14/1658:53>
I honestly think its the size of the book...

My pathfinder book bit the dust after a few months of heavy use and it was 400+ pages as well.

Yes, I'm inclined to agree, page count plus the particularly heavy full colour pages.  I had a similar binding failure to what I described above occur with my HERO 6E1 book (though in that case it was the paper glued to the cover that ripped rather than the back itself).  I've started putting my books spine-down in my backpack instead of upright to take the weight of the pages off the binding.
Title: Re: New Copy of SR5 has pages falling out!
Post by: koolmath5 on <02-02-14/0959:44>
Here is the deal. A book that large should have been stitched as well as glued. That was a decision that would have been made CGL prior to printing they own this mistake.  Instead of hiding they should offer everyone who has had the same problem a new book. This is just another "what else do you expect from CGL" moment. Their runners tool kit has been delayed along with their beginners boxed set. What turned out to be the "Year of Shadowrun" has turned out to be another  year of hollow promises and release dates.  I have shelved my 5th edition and moved on just because I, as many others, am tired of waiting for them to get their house in order. 
Title: Re: New Copy of SR5 has pages falling out!
Post by: Namikaze on <02-02-14/1058:15>
Here is the deal. A book that large should have been stitched as well as glued. That was a decision that would have been made CGL prior to printing they own this mistake.  Instead of hiding they should offer everyone who has had the same problem a new book. This is just another "what else do you expect from CGL" moment. Their runners tool kit has been delayed along with their beginners boxed set. What turned out to be the "Year of Shadowrun" has turned out to be another  year of hollow promises and release dates.  I have shelved my 5th edition and moved on just because I, as many others, am tired of waiting for them to get their house in order.

Based on the input that I've seen here, I'd say that less than 5% of the books that CGL printed are affected by this problem.  Clearly that means heads must roll, right?  Oh lordy, the Year of Shadowrun has ruined my life!

Realistically, this kind of thing happens all the time with all books.  The rate of failure in printing isn't always as high as 5%, but it does happen often enough that the retail industry has rules that generally follow for it.  Rule one, return your product to your retailer.  Rule two, retailer replaces your product.  It's not that complicated, and I don't know why everyone is blaming CGL for everything.  Should it have been stitched as well as glued?  Perhaps - but when 95% of the product is perfectly fine...  it's hard to say that it should have been stitched as well.
Title: Re: New Copy of SR5 has pages falling out!
Post by: Michael Chandra on <02-02-14/1357:10>
Instead of hiding they should offer everyone who has had the same problem a new book.
As far as I'm aware, they have provided new books to everyone who bought directly from them. Unfortunately when you buy through a retailer, the retailer is the one responsible for sending it up the chain. Combined with that is that stocks are emptying out and they had to do a second printing, which takes time to get into place.
Title: Re: New Copy of SR5 has pages falling out!
Post by: VonEros on <02-03-14/1012:42>
I am one of the unfortunates who obtained SR5 through a retailer and not direct. I will not make the same mistake when I order the next copy. I have said for the start that this was not a "I will never buy your products again" kind of post. I love Shadowrun and CGL has done a great job with the property. It just sucks that I have a $60 book with a $5 binding job. Should they have been stitched? I don't have P&L sheet in front of me to make that call. The same goes for the "give everyone affected a new copy" suggestion. All I can say for sure is that I was hoping for better, and I did not get it. I will buy more copies. I will wait how ever long for releases, assuming that they come out with the same level of editing quality that one would expect. I am a runner, and that is not likely to change, chummer.
Title: Re: New Copy of SR5 has pages falling out!
Post by: Galamoth on <02-06-14/1852:13>
I purchased a book directly from them at a convention and i have been unable to contact anyone in customer service. The website lists Randall Bills as the contact for that kind of thing but i have been unable to make contact with him. Is there someone else there i can email?
Title: Re: New Copy of SR5 has pages falling out!
Post by: VonEros on <02-07-14/0838:53>
I hope that you kept your receipt, chummer...
Title: Re: New Copy of SR5 has pages falling out!
Post by: Galamoth on <02-07-14/1702:35>
I did not. But i do have Randal Bills signature in the front cover... so that at least shows i got it from them at a con and not at a local game store or something.
Title: Re: New Copy of SR5 has pages falling out!
Post by: Redwulfe on <02-09-14/2023:36>
Well looks like my second copy lasted longer than the first but is now itself falling apart. This one lasted for about 4 months it's probably because I only opened it once a week with kids gloves. The first only lasted one week and I only opened it a few times. Not sure the retailer will give me a new one as it has been 4 months but I feel it should be replaced. Sending an email to catalyst to see if it will still be covered. I hope the second printing has a stronger binding.