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[SR6} Cyberjacks, Commlinks, and Cyberdecks

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gsrutkowski

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« on: <04-29-22/1041:44> »
From what I see, looking at the descriptions and reading the stats, I would assume that the point of a Cyberjack is to provide the DP/FW for Cyberdecks.  However, I can still run a Cyberdeck through a commlink.  And from what I gather, a Cyberdeck could, potentially, have it's own radio (wireless connection).
So then, could one run a Cyberjack through a commlink?  And if so, which DP/FW would you use?  I assume it's the lowest of the two: Almost always a commlink. 

But then I get to thinking about Cyberlimbs.  A common decker tactic in SR5 is attacking someone Cyberlimbs via entering their commlink and shutting down anything with the wireless on.  In SR6, the same sort tactic can be used, but now I have to wonder about the Cyberjack in this situation: Would the decker hit the commlink, then have to hit the Cyberjack to attempt to get to the Cyberlimbs?  the Cyberjack itself doesn't seem to have a signal rating, implying it doesn't have a radio.  And I assume -- based on the description -- that you'd likely run a cable from the 'Jack to the Commlink.  And could this potentially have benefits for, say, a Street Sam looking to protect his Cyberlimbs by hiding them behind the 'Jack?  As well, could one utilize the 'Jack as a commlink for purposes of engaging Wireless benefits?

MercilessMing

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« Reply #1 on: <04-29-22/1224:29> »
From what I see, looking at the descriptions and reading the stats, I would assume that the point of a Cyberjack is to provide the DP/FW for Cyberdecks.  However, I can still run a Cyberdeck through a commlink.  And from what I gather, a Cyberdeck could, potentially, have it's own radio (wireless connection).
So then, could one run a Cyberjack through a commlink?  And if so, which DP/FW would you use?  I assume it's the lowest of the two: Almost always a commlink. 
A cyberjack's standalone utility is not well defined.  The CRB describes the commlink and the cyberdeck as the gear that connects to the matrix, which means that's what makes the persona.  Since cyberdecks don't have a D/F you have to wonder what a device with 0/0 D/F can actually do.  Best not to think too hard on it. 
According to the book, as best I can figure, you can't "combine" a cyberjack and commlink.  You can make your PAN with your commlink and connect your cyberjack to your network like any other device, but your commlink's stats would be used to defend. 
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But then I get to thinking about Cyberlimbs.  A common decker tactic in SR5 is attacking someone Cyberlimbs via entering their commlink and shutting down anything with the wireless on.  In SR6, the same sort tactic can be used, but now I have to wonder about the Cyberjack in this situation: Would the decker hit the commlink, then have to hit the Cyberjack to attempt to get to the Cyberlimbs? 
No, once the decker has access to the network (hit the commlink in this case) they have access to everything on that network.  The cyberjack isn't protecting anything. 

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And I assume -- based on the description -- that you'd likely run a cable from the 'Jack to the Commlink.  And could this potentially have benefits for, say, a Street Sam looking to protect his Cyberlimbs by hiding them behind the 'Jack? 
A hardwired network behind a wireless network?  That's interesting, but the rules don't treat it differently.  The point of SR6 is to simplify these things.  At the end of the day, your devices are either wireless on or wireless off, and having gaining access to the top-level PAN grants access to anything it covers.

Xenon

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« Reply #2 on: <04-29-22/1948:39> »
Intended combinations seem to be Commlink+SIM Module+Trodes/Datajack (anyone), Cyberdeck+Cyberjack (deckers) or RCC+Control Rig (riggers).

But there are many more combinations that seem to be valid (basically everything except cyberdeck and RCC at the same time).

Commlink (no DNI, no SIM)
Commlink+Trodes/Datajack (no SIM)
Commlink+SIM module+Trodes/Datajack
Commlink+Cyberjack (no SIM)
Commlink+SIM module+Cyberjack
Commlink+Control Rig
Commlink+Cyberjack+Control Rig

Cyberdeck+Commlink (no DNI)
Cyberdeck+Commlink+Trodes/Datajack
Cyberdeck+Commlink+Control Rig
Cyberdeck+Cyberjack
Cyberdeck+Cyberjack+Control Rig

RCC (no DNI, no SIM)
RCC+Trodes/Datajack (no SIM)
RCC+Commlink+SIM module+Trodes/Datajack
RCC+Cyberjack (no SIM)
RCC+Commlink+SIM module+Cyberjack
RCC+Control Rig
RCC+Control Rig+Cyberjack


Trodes or Datajack = DNI (which is needed for VR together with SIM module)
Cyberjack = DNI, matrix edge actions, extra VR actions and good defense
Control rig = DNI, SIM module and jump in
Cyberdeck = SIM module and hacking
RCC = sharing, noise reduction and good defense


I would assume that the point of a Cyberjack is to provide the DP/FW for Cyberdecks.
It also enable matrix edge actions and extra actions while in VR mode (also if you are not using a cyberdeck)


I can still run a Cyberdeck through a commlink.
Yes, but without a cyberjack you will end up with pretty crappy DR and no extra actions in VR mode.


And from what I gather, a Cyberdeck could, potentially, have it's own radio (wireless connection).
If you want to access the matrix it seem as if you need to combine it with either a cyberjack or a commlink.


could one run a Cyberjack through a commlink? 
You can have both a commlink and a cyberdeck in the same network, yes.


And if so, which DP/FW would you use? 
You can rotate all attributes through your persona, even if they originated from different devices.


I assume it's the lowest of the two: Almost always a commlink. 
Your network will most likely be protected by the firewall of your cyberjack (you typically pick the stronger of the two)


A common decker tactic in SR5 is attacking someone Cyberlimbs via entering their commlink and shutting down anything with the wireless on. 
In SR5 you interacted directly with wireless devices no matter if they were slaved to a master device or not.
You didn't have to first gain access on the commlink and then gain access on his device, you just hack the device directly.

Having said that, augmentations (including cyberlimbs) were connected to their host via neural link.
Wireless was not needed unless there was a wireless bonus you wanted to utilize.
(and if they are not wireless enabled then they were immune to hacking)


Would the decker hit the commlink, then have to hit the Cyberjack to attempt to get to the Cyberlimbs? 
In SR6 you don't hack individual devices one by one. You hack the entire network at once.
The network will use the higher firewall of the commlink and the cyberjack.
Once you have access on the network you also have access on all devices and augmentations that is part of the network.


the Cyberjack itself doesn't seem to have a signal rating
Signal rating?


....that you'd likely run a cable from the 'Jack to the Commlink.  And could this potentially have benefits for, say, a Street Sam looking to protect his Cyberlimbs by hiding them behind the 'Jack? 
Doesn't matter if devices in a network are connected via a wire or if they are connected wireless. Once a hacker gain access on your network (either via brute force or by probing for a backdoor) he will gain access on the entire network and all its devices. A network is a network is a network.
« Last Edit: <04-29-22/1959:05> by Xenon »

Stainless Steel Devil Rat

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« Reply #3 on: <04-29-22/2156:14> »
From what I see, looking at the descriptions and reading the stats, I would assume that the point of a Cyberjack is to provide the DP/FW for Cyberdecks.  However, I can still run a Cyberdeck through a commlink.  And from what I gather, a Cyberdeck could, potentially, have it's own radio (wireless connection).
So then, could one run a Cyberjack through a commlink?  And if so, which DP/FW would you use?  I assume it's the lowest of the two: Almost always a commlink.

There wouldn't be any need for a commlink.  The cyberjack basically IS an implanted commlink, only significantly more capable.

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But then I get to thinking about Cyberlimbs.  A common decker tactic in SR5 is attacking someone Cyberlimbs via entering their commlink and shutting down anything with the wireless on.  In SR6, the same sort tactic can be used, but now I have to wonder about the Cyberjack in this situation: Would the decker hit the commlink, then have to hit the Cyberjack to attempt to get to the Cyberlimbs?  the Cyberjack itself doesn't seem to have a signal rating, implying it doesn't have a radio.  And I assume -- based on the description -- that you'd likely run a cable from the 'Jack to the Commlink.  And could this potentially have benefits for, say, a Street Sam looking to protect his Cyberlimbs by hiding them behind the 'Jack?  As well, could one utilize the 'Jack as a commlink for purposes of engaging Wireless benefits?

What the sammie "should" do in 6e is daisy chain their PAN to the rigger or hacker's PAN.  If your team doesn't have one (shame on your team) then the next best thing is to just get as good a commlink as you can, swap D over to F, and hope for the best.  Make sure you get at least 1 skill rank in electronics so you can shut wireless comms off on devices that start to get hacked.
RPG mechanics exist to give structure and consistency to the game world, true, but at the end of the day, you’re fighting dragons with algebra and random number generators.

MercilessMing

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« Reply #4 on: <05-02-22/1602:06> »
There wouldn't be any need for a commlink.  The cyberjack basically IS an implanted commlink, only significantly more capable.
I would like to think of the cyberjack this way, but is there anything in the CRB that supports this?


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then the next best thing is to just get as good a commlink as you can, swap D over to F, and hope for the best. 
I have always treated attribute swapping as a feature unique to cyberdecks.  Looking again, no I don't see that restriction, not entirely convinced it's intentional, but you've spoken with Banshee more about this than me.


And where did anyone get the idea that commlink + cyberjack was a valid combo?

Banshee

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« Reply #5 on: <05-03-22/1147:42> »
Commlink and Cyberjack relationship... that was a huge omission on my part in bit getting it put into words on paper in the CRB. I did address it in my FAQ (which btw the way is slowly making it way into official channels in some domestic or another) .... but a cyberjack connects to the Matrix in the same way as a commlink so there is no need for an additional device in the network except the cyberjack lacks any vocal/audio component so can't handle voice communication. Combining them serves no purpose other than allowing this but isn't against any of the rules.

As for the attribute swapping that was not original intent ... my intent was limited to swapping on just the inherent device and not across devices... but that was a deliberate editorial change .... so you're kind of right
Robert "Banshee" Volbrecht
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Former RPG Lead Agent
Catalyst Demo Team

MercilessMing

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« Reply #6 on: <05-03-22/1505:06> »
Oh nuts, I'm familiar with your FAQ but I guess I forgot/didn't see that part.