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Encouraging PCs' morals to slip

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Crash_00

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« Reply #30 on: <11-28-11/1933:49> »
See i have the opposite problem. Usually I'll come up with a plan that causes the GM to sit there, head twitching, with a sound of broken gears for a few minutes. There are few things that the appropriate amounts of briber, threat, or torture (illusion of torture for those goody good characters) can't accomplish.

I remember one run where I was playing one of my meanest characters (the one with the organlegger contacts) where I had captured an enemy mage and was torturing him for information. Between the wounds from capturing him, the Hyper I injected, the photo of his family that he was positive we had captured also, and the fact that I kept slapping stim patches on him to keep him awake (which could cause magic loss in SR3 but I really didn't know at the time), he told us everything we wanted to know and offered his help.

Then of course there was drone with a mounted troll fire mage incident. That ones is fairly self explanatory, but needless to say, the GM did not see it coming.

Some things money can't buy, but there are always other options  ;D

Zilfer

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« Reply #31 on: <11-28-11/1940:44> »
See i have the opposite problem. Usually I'll come up with a plan that causes the GM to sit there, head twitching, with a sound of broken gears for a few minutes. There are few things that the appropriate amounts of briber, threat, or torture (illusion of torture for those goody good characters) can't accomplish.

I remember one run where I was playing one of my meanest characters (the one with the organlegger contacts) where I had captured an enemy mage and was torturing him for information. Between the wounds from capturing him, the Hyper I injected, the photo of his family that he was positive we had captured also, and the fact that I kept slapping stim patches on him to keep him awake (which could cause magic loss in SR3 but I really didn't know at the time), he told us everything we wanted to know and offered his help.

Then of course there was drone with a mounted troll fire mage incident. That ones is fairly self explanatory, but needless to say, the GM did not see it coming.

Some things money can't buy, but there are always other options  ;D

I should probably incorperate Torcher to give it to them as an option because my group doesn't do that either!
Having access to Ares Technology isn't so bad, being in a room that's connected to the 'trix with holographic display throughout the whole room isn't bad either. Food, drinks whenever you want it. Over all not bad, but being unable to leave and with a Female Dragon? No Thanks! ~The Captive Man

Crash_00

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« Reply #32 on: <11-28-11/1955:19> »
Torture one of them once, leave them bloodied and crippled for a few days/weeks and they'll remember oh to well when they next try to do information gathering on a hostile force.

ladymykka

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« Reply #33 on: <11-28-11/2003:00> »

You would be an interesting DM to play under. +1 for your sadisticness. :D

As one of the folks that has lived through this experience, I can indeed confirm it is very interesting.   A rip your heart out with a spoon and makes you ask for more kind of interesting. A throw you through the meat grinder and leaves you saying lets do it again kind of interesting.

By the way mr.DM.. what time is our next game?

JustADude

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« Reply #34 on: <11-28-11/2230:38> »
There are two rules to a good Shadowrun game I've found.
A.) It works best if the guy that usually comes up with the crazy plans is the GM. Things get derailed a lot less and usually the same guy can think on the fly to come up with challenges for everyone else's crazy plans.

B.) Anything the GM can imagine and plan for can, and most likely will be, one upped by the players.

I miss SR3. Contacts were so much cheaper back then.

So, you want Mr. Welsh as a GM, then?  ;)
“What is right is not always popular and what is popular is not always right.”
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"Being average just means that half of everyone you meet is better than you."
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rasmusnicolaj

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« Reply #35 on: <11-29-11/0452:48> »
Then let the hounga agree to the wetwork on behalf of the whole group.
Maybe as part of a bet or something that leaves them no option of backing down.
Or would that be evil?

Rasmus
Deplore killings made in the name of religion. Can't it just be for fun?

CanRay

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« Reply #36 on: <11-29-11/1003:11> »
The group wakes up to a really bright light, an anonymous voice can be heard:

"You've all been fitted with a cortex bomb.  There's a list of names on the floor in front of the door out.  They all need to die in 24-hours, and have biomonitors installed in them to make sure they're alive or dead.  If you fail...  The bombs go off.  Your time starts...  Now."

The lights go off.
Si vis pacem, para bellum

#ThisTaserGoesTo11

ladymykka

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« Reply #37 on: <11-29-11/1006:36> »
With so many people chiming in on how you can achieve this goal, I feel obliged to mention that you have on your hands a very unique concept.  In a game world that is bent on destroying a person's humanity, sometimes quite literally by carving away little pieces at a time, you have a team that is determined to cling to their ethics and morals... and in the end to themselves.  Koodos to you as a DM that your world can inspire your players to take the much more difficult path through life.  I would be more interested in how long or how far they can go rather than the end result of slipping.  Enjoy the choices they make and reward them for walking the path of most resistance.  Now I'm not saying go easy on them, quite the opposite.  What I'm trying to say is not to consider your efforts a failure if at the end of the day, they are still holding on.

With that being said.... *evilgrin*    If you can get your hands on a couple of the season 2 mission modules, I would reccomend reading SRM02-03 "The Grab" and its sequel SRM02-08 "Chasing the Dragon"   I wouldn't run them back to back, but they really do explore some very dark content.
« Last Edit: <11-29-11/1022:38> by ladymykka »

JustADude

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« Reply #38 on: <11-29-11/1135:38> »
With that being said.... *evilgrin*    If you can get your hands on a couple of the season 2 mission modules, I would reccomend reading SRM02-03 "The Grab" and its sequel SRM02-08 "Chasing the Dragon"   I wouldn't run them back to back, but they really do explore some very dark content.

Been a while, but as I recall, part 1 is pretty easily non-lethal if you know what you're doing... well, except for the freakin' helicopter.

As for the sequel... yeah, that one's got pretty dark and messy.
“What is right is not always popular and what is popular is not always right.”
― Albert Einstein

"Being average just means that half of everyone you meet is better than you."
― Me

Zilfer

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« Reply #39 on: <11-29-11/1144:57> »
Just read through the second one and o.O' if you've played the first one well than bleh no monehz!!!
Having access to Ares Technology isn't so bad, being in a room that's connected to the 'trix with holographic display throughout the whole room isn't bad either. Food, drinks whenever you want it. Over all not bad, but being unable to leave and with a Female Dragon? No Thanks! ~The Captive Man

ladymykka

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« Reply #40 on: <11-29-11/1202:41> »
With that being said.... *evilgrin*    If you can get your hands on a couple of the season 2 mission modules, I would reccomend reading SRM02-03 "The Grab" and its sequel SRM02-08 "Chasing the Dragon"   I wouldn't run them back to back, but they really do explore some very dark content.

Been a while, but as I recall, part 1 is pretty easily non-lethal if you know what you're doing... well, except for the freakin' helicopter.

As for the sequel... yeah, that one's got pretty dark and messy.

You're absolutely correct with regards to the first mission.  Its not for the run that I suggest this one.  Its for the... "give the players handout #3" ... in which the fallout of the mission, (something that
they had no control over but are in the end morally responsible for)  is described as only the media can... clinical and painful

JustADude

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« Reply #41 on: <11-29-11/1426:15> »
With that being said.... *evilgrin*    If you can get your hands on a couple of the season 2 mission modules, I would reccomend reading SRM02-03 "The Grab" and its sequel SRM02-08 "Chasing the Dragon"   I wouldn't run them back to back, but they really do explore some very dark content.

Been a while, but as I recall, part 1 is pretty easily non-lethal if you know what you're doing... well, except for the freakin' helicopter.

As for the sequel... yeah, that one's got pretty dark and messy.

You're absolutely correct with regards to the first mission.  Its not for the run that I suggest this one.  Its for the... "give the players handout #3" ... in which the fallout of the mission, (something that
they had no control over but are in the end morally responsible for)  is described as only the media can... clinical and painful

Ah, right, THAT handout. I remember being pissed as hell about that, yeah. Especially since we went through a lot of trouble to get the target without inflicting even a single box of Stun on her.
“What is right is not always popular and what is popular is not always right.”
― Albert Einstein

"Being average just means that half of everyone you meet is better than you."
― Me

Malex

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« Reply #42 on: <11-29-11/2129:11> »
The group wakes up to a really bright light, an anonymous voice can be heard:

"You've all been fitted with a cortex bomb.  There's a list of names on the floor in front of the door out.  They all need to die in 24-hours, and have biomonitors installed in them to make sure they're alive or dead.  If you fail...  The bombs go off.  Your time starts...  Now."

The lights go off.

This is sort of the same motivation I've used to force my PCs to work together. They all woke up with a Cranial Bomb attached to their brainstems and were told that if they didn't do the job or if they tried to kill the man responcible for their situation... boom, dead.  ;D
Look past the lies, and all the scary stuff that remains is the truth.

Tagz

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« Reply #43 on: <11-29-11/2312:22> »
I've got a story back from when I was a player, playing the hacker.  It's been a while so I've forgotten a few of the specifics but it's pretty good.

Anyhow, we're on a job to investigate a series of murdered kids in the Redmond barrens.  After tons of legwork, favors, asking questions of the wrong people (the kind who respond in gunfire), it turns out the perpetrator is a upper-management piece of work for Mitsuhama.  I won't get into the details of what he was doing but suffice to say it made us motivated to stop him.

We set up surveillance, take shifts, and wait days for a chance to nab him.  We finally get our chance and it goes off without a hitch.  Skip scene back to the safehouse, we're arguing what to do with him.  I had figured that the solution was obvious, kill the slot.  The rest of the group hadn't thought that far ahead and now that he was defenseless and bound to a chair they started to lose their nerve.  We had been doing some Robinhooding up to this point, doing bad things sure but only to bad people to help good people.  Cold blooded murder was something that (besides myself) the group wasn't quite ready for, regardless of what he had done.

In character I lose my cool and take off saying "Do whatever the frag you like!", partly because I felt it made the scene awesome and partly because I wanted to see what they'd do without me (I had much more experience and the group often turned to me for solutions, so sometimes I would opt out of the decision making process.  It only felt fair.).

So, after some talk they decide that they just need to get a bit more evidence and then they can go to Lone Star.  Some gamma-scopoline and a little time and the face has gotten more info then he wanted to know, but now they can get the videos the sicko made and have him eye and ear recording telling them where to get the trids.  They get them and come back, telling the sicko that it's all over for him, that he's going away for a long, long time and he should just cooperate and make it easier on everyone.

Everyone but me goes to the police station, evil NPC in tow.  They're smart enough to only bring stun weapons, have their most up to date fake SINs, and I'm still in contact with them via commlink, begrudgingly reminding them about other things to remember so they appear to be good little UCAS citizens.

They turn him and the evidence they aquired in.  My GM asks them "So, there are a few open seats.  Do you want to stick around or take off?"  He was giving them a chance at escape, but they didn't realize it.  They decided to wait, they wanted to see sicko get his karmic reward.

So they wait about an hour when sicko, and two very well dressed men walk out from the hallway laughing politely.  "Haha, Well the next eighteen holes I won't go so easy on you!" one of them says to the sicko.

Everyone in the group has the same reaction: their jaw drops.  They snap a photo of the guys and ask me to try and look them up.  I find them.  One is a high priced lawyer for Mitsumama, and the man who was joking with the sicko was the LoneStar-Mitsumama liaison.

They talk for another minute then sicko and lawyer walk up to the group (minus me).  He looks at them slyly then pulls out his commlink.

"Hello, cleaner?  Ah, yes.  I'm in desperate need of having my suit cleaned.  Yes, a few troublesome... stains... that need to be ... removed."  As he says that he turns to each one of them in turn, spending a few seconds looking at each one.  They realize he's taking pictures of them with his cybereyes.  "I'm ever so busy, you do pickups at home, yes-oh-you don't have my address on file now do you?  Hold on just a moment while I forward that to you."  The lawyer then pulls out a manilla folder and hands it to the perv.  The perv holds it open in a manner that the players can see, clearly wanting them to know it's contents.  It's a dossier on THEM, it's all the info Mitsuhama was able to pull on them.  He reads off the address of their safehouse right in front of them.  "Same fee as always?  A rush charge?  Very well, that's reasonable.  Very good.  Goodbye."

It's now they realize what just happened.  This guy is getting off scott free and is now contracting a hit on them, right in front of them, in the middle of a Lone Star precinct, surrounded by two dozen cops.  And if they try to stop him right then and there, THEY would be the ones the cops throw to the ground, taze, beat, or worse.  They effectively can't do anything at the moment.

He puts the commlink away and walks past them with that sly-smug smile.  The group is pissed now, they start after him to follow but get stopped at the door.  Lone Star has a few "questions" for them.

They each get thrown into separate interrogation rooms and questioned.  It's clear from the questioning that they suspect them of creating counterfeit material to blackmail the sicko NPC.  And after checking and rechecking everyone's SINs, sure enough two of them come up as fakes.

The GM is feeling somewhat merciful at this point, instead of killing the SINless or due process, the investigaters decide to "teach these bums a lesson" and just beat the two who failed the SIN check until they overflowed to just one or two physical boxes left.  The other two were just harassed emotionally and kept being given the chance to "Make this all go away, we know it was those two SINless that put you up to this.  Just give us a confession... nothing bad will happen to you, we promise."

Eventually my character comes down to bail them out.  Literally.  They're car's impounded and the two who failed the SIN check are black and blue, the two that passed have court dates (they know they'll have to ditch the SINs), nearly all the money thats been made running to this point was spent on posting bail and bribes to let the SINless go, the safehouse is no longer safe, we're now on Mitsuhama's radar and not in a good way, and there's a hit out on four out of five team members.  Oh, and did I mention that the sicko was going home safe and sound?


Now the team is ready to kill.
« Last Edit: <11-29-11/2318:43> by Tagz »

rasmusnicolaj

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« Reply #44 on: <11-30-11/0317:41> »
Now the team is ready to kill.

Excellent (Mr. Burns style)

Rasmus
Deplore killings made in the name of religion. Can't it just be for fun?