[eryrwyn]

I'm a new Shadowrun 5e player who's trying to turn the concept I have in my head into a mechanically effective character who will be able to shine in his chosen areas of expertise. Given that characters in this system tend to be very much specialists in what they do, I wouldn't want to create a character and be unable to enjoy playing him because he's incapable of doing what he was supposed to do. That's why I've come here to ask for your help in making sure that doesn't happen.

First of all, I'd like to play a Troll Mystic Adept who can also substitute for a Face whenever needed. And yes, I realise that is not the most optimised choice and an elf would be much better. The thing is... I want to play a Tir na nÓg/Irish Troll (Formorian) and not an elf. I've chosen Formorian metavariant mostly for the fluff -- the Celtic mythology connection and Irish heritage, but their less monstrous appearance and higher Charisma certainly helps in getting what I want!

As I want to be able to substitute for a Face, I intend to stick with a Charisma Magic Tradition, most likely Shamanism as neither Aztec nor Voodoo fit the character I have in mind. This also means that I could be pretty good at summoning if I invested enough skill points in the conjuring skill group. As I've never played, I'm not sure how powerful Spirits can be but I really like the concept of a spirit summoner so I'd like to go with that.

As far as Charisma goes... the starting maximum Charisma of a Formorian is 5 so it's not optimized at all. From what I've read, I could go the Changeling route and take Metagenetic Improvement (CHA) and possibly also Glamour for the additional +1 to social tests and +2 to social limits. I also like the idea of a Glamour-casting Formorian troll -- after all, according to legends of the British Isles, fey were the ones to cast such charms over mortals. Plus, it's kind of like making a Fomorian Dryad... which I find quite hilarious.

There is also the possibility of going with some cyber- and/or bio-ware to enhance my charisma. It seems like I could take the Genetic Optimization (CHA) for 0.3 Essence for +1 Charisma. There's also the Biosculpting procedure which increases trolls' Charisma by 2 for 0.5 Essence. And there's always Tailored Pheromones which might not increase Charisma but they're still pretty amazing thanks to the bonus to all social tests and limits they provide. Of course, all these options come with the same two problems. Essence loss and Nuyen. I guess I could sacrifice 1 point of Essence... how limiting is it? As I have no experience I cannot be sure if it's worth it in the long- (or short-)-term. I could technically try going the Transhuman Prototype route... for +1 starting Essence but the problem of having enough nuyen remains. It could be somehow mitigated by taking the In Debt negative quality, I imagine. The most optimal way I can think of is taking the Genetic Optimization (CHA), the Biosculpting for +2 Cha and Tailored Pheromones (+1) to fill that point of Essence. It will require Resources C... or possibly D with maximum In-Debt -- which seems kind of scary to be honest.

There's of course Exceptional Attribute but I doubt will have enough points for that, at least not at chargen.

I will, of course, use spells to further enhance my Charisma and other attributes. I imagine Agility and Willpower will prove most useful? And Reflexes but I think i'll take that as an adept power instead of a spell.

Still on the topic of spellcasting... how much of a problem Arcane Arrester is for a spellcaster PC? I wouldn't want not to be able to get my buffs or healing spells or other utility spells on because of a racial feature.

I imagine it's only natural to try and make use of the high starting Body and Strength attributes of a troll by going melee -- would I be better of going with a weapon or going unarmed? I looked through the available spells and I really liked the lightsabers spellblades -- they specify that you can use any melee skill. Knucks use Unarmed Combat and they're a weapon... does that mean that I could choose Unarmed as my spell blade? I suppose not... so I should probably stick with an actual weapon then -- probably Blades - the extendable spear looks great and fits the image of a Celtic follower of Lugh!

For ranged combat, I'll pass on mundane weaponry and just stick to my magic for this, saving me some skill points and some cash as well.

At how much Defence and Soak should I be looking to be a fairly competent combatant and not get hit/hurt all the time?

So far, the best I could think of was either Metatype B and Magic A or Metatype A and Magic B (is it better to have 10 spells and two 5-rank skills or fewer spells but higher Edge?) + Attributes C, Resources D and Skills E. The skills make me really sad but they're the easiest thing to pick up in-game, especially with Jack of All Trades which I could end up taking. This distribution assumes the terrifying In-Debt 15 though.

[Medicineman]

If you want to, you could search here ( or in the Dumpschock Forum)
for Fancy Derek   the Giant Pimp

and loosing Essence, Well (ImO)
for an awakened it's quite OK to loose 1 (maybe even 2) Essence for 'ware that helps him in his prime Area .
If the Priority system is too ...stringent go look for the Sum to 10 option from Run Harder ( or was it Run Faster ? sorry , I often forget the english titles I mean the runners compendium of the 5th Ed. )

>>> would I be better of going with a weapon or going unarmed?

better go for Unarmed as a myst Ad you've got Spells, Spirits and dozens of Adept Powers to be an Awesome Melee Fighter
( but You need Karma, oh so much Karma to become truly Awesome)
AND your Fists (or Feet if You go Capoeira ) can't be taken away from You/your Char


with a Fancy Dance
Medicineman

[Whiskeyjack]

-Troll metavarient
-MysAd
-Face
-With Ware

You are trying to do too much. It comes from fighting multiple currents really hard. You wind up with an expensive metatype, which competes for priority with magic and skills (face/mage is skill intensive), and you're a metavarient, which has a karma cost, which you need to maximize PP, and that meta has a low attribute cap for your chosen role and drain stat, which you are trying to fix with ware, which hurts your magic, and which is expensive, which limits your ability to take Foci to shore up the new magic weaknesses (and which also need karma)....you see where I'm going?

Now that's not to say that your idea is bad. It's not. It's a fine idea. I'm just saying when you try to fight against type THIS much in a system with this kind of priority chargen, it typically ends up being fairly ineffective, because the system actively fights against this being effective barring significant house ruling (it could be more effective in 4e BP, simply because of the nature of that system). This is the kind of idea that shines in a crazy Sum-To-15 game where everything is Prio A and you don't have to make any trade-offs in character building, but in a standard game, compromising to fit everything you want in is likely to result in a fairly low-utility mess, mechanically speaking.

Honestly there's a reason people recommend starting with a sam or something. This is not a newbie friendly concept both in terms of rules and resource realities, and seasoned pros in the system would be hard pressed to execute it effectively.

[Dwagonzhan]

Welcome to Shadowrun! A few comments on the concept:

Summoner-Face is a viable build, and an old favorite of mine. However, this build is likely the most karma-hungry I've seen.
It needs Karma for:
i) Several Initiations just to get the Metamagic you need. (with Adept Power Points AND Magician metamagics available, it's going to be quite a list!)
ii) Raising your Magic attribute (duh)
iii) Skills. Since you're a Face you need solid social skills. However, by the necessity of your other choices, you will be placing a VERY low priority on skills starting out.
iv) Spells, and likely a Mentor Spirit (choose carefully!)
v) If you manage to get ahold of Foci, you need Karma to bond them to you

Good news for you: Outside of acquiring magical Foci, Shamans are very cheap to build (nuyen-wise), which means you can put most of your income into magical security (remember to share with your team if they need a place to duck astral-tracking!), and equally importantly (as a Face) CONTACTS. With a CHA of 5 or 6, you have a pretty healthy pool of Contact points starting out, and should be just as important as choosing your spells.
I cannot stress the Contacts issue enough; I've lost count of how many times having the right Contact with a boosted rating has saved my bacon (mostly in SR2+3, but I suspect SR5 is no different).

Since your Essence is at a premium, an Awakened-friendly doctor (corp or street doc, if you can somehow find one) is a must. Without one, you risk permanently losing Essence to bad fights.

On that note: I'd personally avoid sacrificing ANY essence to Cyber/Bio-Ware starting out, unless there is a piece of sweet tech you simply cannot live without.
Every point of essence you shed puts you closer to Burnout, with each new point lost being more painful than the last (especially as a MystAd where your Magic score pulls double duty).
This is especially relevant in the long term, as you may lose some essence incidentally as a consequence of a really bad fight, poor health-care/recovery, or prolonged exposure to all manner of nasty environments (if the GM considers that in Lifestyles in the setting; I know I do).
By keeping all your starting essence, you have a better "buffer" against long-term loss of effectiveness.

Hope that helps a bit, and wasn't too rambling or redundant!

[gilga]

I tried to play with the numbers a bit,
I get good result for unarmed combatant mystic adept troll, I struggle to squeeze in face and troll - I can do it - but then you become less of an 'adept' because I find my self tempted to just give you social stuff with all the adept powers, so no reflexes and improved unarmed and so forth.

I went: Troll A, Magic B, Attributes B, Money E and Skills E (This is reasonable as Magic B gives some skills).

The augmented part I did with a little debit, bone density augmentation R3 (+2 unarmed damage, and more soak dice) + 2 striking callus. (+2 unarmed damage).

Str is 9 - so you get a base damage of: 9 + 4 = 13 P now in adept powers 13P seemed enough so I gave you improve reflexes and improved unarmed (both at 3) so you get very nice dicepool for unarmed.

Shark mentor spirit (both unarmed and combat spells) I avoided killing hands and critical strike as well damage seemed enough for me.  The last quality is biocompatibility(bioware) that I have to take to fit all that bioware into 1 point of essence and then prototype transhuman for 6 magic.

So overall you get 16 dice for combat spells 17 dice for unarmed with your striking callus. (15 for any other thing unarmed)  and well you are not a face, you get spellcasting and summoning + 7 spells - one of them can be improve charisma - to increase it from 5 to 9 ( so along with 1 skill point in social stuff you get to 10).   (No skill points - so this is as good as I can get you and make you an optimized combat monster).


I can post the char if you want, you need to maximize negative qualities as well.

[cbsmith]

As others have mentioned, you're fighting too many battles on too many fronts here.

Let's start with going Formian. Yes, Formians are cool and amusing. However, consider their disadvantages:

• Low max Charisma, as you mentioned (actually not that bad as troll reduction 2 gets you above human charisma max
• Low max Willpower. This one is huge. Willpower is key for both Mage & Adept drain. It's also key for composure tests (that's a thing for faces as well), and your stun damage track (particularly painful because to get that 5 Willpower, you give up your other ability maxes) if you are looking to be combat oriented too.
• Really low max Intuition. Aside from Intuition being arguably the most important mental attribute of the game, it's critical for a key face function: judge intentions (not to mention being perceptive enough to pick up on other things). Particularly given the Willpower issue, you're now looking at have at most... 3 Intuition.
• 12 Karma. You burn through 12 karma just by choosing them. The only other metavariant with that same cost is the Wakyambi. This is really painful for Mystic Adepts who need the karma for PP's. Seems like you would be better off just going pure mage, as the PP's can afford to buy aren't going to get you much.
• Priority slot/Edge. It kind of goes without saying you have a problem here already without throwing in Formian in to the mix.
• Arcane Arrestor. Maybe your GM will rule different, but as I read the rules as written.... you are definitely going to end up resisting spells you cast on yourself. Huge waste.

[li]Low agility max. It is the same as for a Troll, but with the willpower limit, you're effectively not going to get your base agility above 4 (which you would get there with your copious free attribute points.... ;-. That is going to make doing well with spellblade a bit tricky, no?
[/li][/list]

That's just the Formian choice. But then you've got the idea of them being a face and a combat monster as well. That by itself is rare and a a bit of work. Throw in spellcaster and summoner... yeah, not going to happen. Too many pieces where you are fighting yourself.

Give it up, pick one thing specifically you'll focus on, instead of trying to be all things to all people.