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Scatter Tables

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Snack Happy

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« on: <10-23-10/2311:14> »
When rolling for scatter for rockets,grenades, and missiles do you roll the 4d6 and count hits as meters off target or is it 4d6 the # rolled is how far off target? Of course taking off the appropriate other modifiers listed. Thanks just curious as we have a guy in the group who loves explosives.

Qemuel

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« Reply #1 on: <10-24-10/0009:32> »
roll 4D6, add the results.   (ex.  I roll a 1, 3, 3, 2.  That is equal to 9 meters off target).
next, multiply net successes by type of grenade scatter (ex.  rockets are -1 meters per net success.  grenade launcher is -2 meters per net success.  etc.)
If I managed 6 net successes, I've gotten that rocket within 3 meters of where I want it.

Angelone

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« Reply #2 on: <10-24-10/0943:18> »
For missiles you subtract the sensor rating as well as net hits from the scatter. Same for air burst grenades. Oddly enough the scatter table is more forgiving in the 4ed rules than the 4A.
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Snack Happy

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« Reply #3 on: <10-24-10/1259:00> »
Ok we thought that was right but it just seems very inaccurate with even a big dice pool to hit

RunnerPaul

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« Reply #4 on: <10-24-10/1314:54> »
Oddly enough the scatter table is more forgiving in the 4ed rules than the 4A.

Someone in the powers that be has it in their heads that grenades are "too easy", in particular, the option to target a location instead of a live target.

in the pre-SR4A era, they had issued a FAQ answer that tried to bring "player intent" into the mix, saying that targeting locations was disallowed if the player was intending to damage moving targets in the blast radius, that the only option is to directly target one of the potential victims in the blast radius.

There were some protests to this restriction, one of which was that it was unnecessary because it didn't look at the "big picture" of grenade usage. Sure targeting a location that can't dodge makes for an easier test with more successes, but that ease comes with a sacrifice. The original SR4 rules allowed extra successes on the attack roll to begin to stage up the damage of the grenade once scatter was reduced to zero, but only the damage felt by what you were targeting; blast radius and splash damage are still calculated off the base damage of the grenade. Essentially, a grenade that catches a good bounce and goes off in mid-air an inch from your chest is going to hurt more than one that lands twelve inches from your feet, even though both of those grenades have less than 1 meter of scatter from their target, and letting an especially skillful roll stage up damage once scatter goes to zero represents that. The catch being, when you target a location, you're foregoing the opportunity to stage the damage up against any of the live targets in the blast radius. Sure it's an easier throw, but the potential payoff is lessened because of it.

(The other "big picture" item to consider about grenades and their ease of use is that they're not particularly 'shadowy'. A grenade gets tossed on a run, and the opposition suddenly has justification to bring out a military-grade anti-terrorist response, which may very well bring their own grenades to toss back at the runners.)

One proposed solution was for the players to invest in a bag of cheap rat bio-drones, and keep them drugged up so that their agility and dodge were at the bare minimum. When you need to target a location, pull a rat-drone out of the bag, send it to that location, and then announce to the GM that you "intend" to target the rat. You get a throw that's almost as easy as targeting the location, while still meeting the FAQ's requirements for "player intent."

Another proposed solution was to just ignore that FAQ answer as it wasn't supported by the Rules As Written. After all, changes to the rules, especially ones that can invalidate combat tactics, should be put into the errata and rolled into the next printing.

So, when they came out with SR4A, they took out the part about extra successes staging the damage up against your specified target once the scatter had been reduced to zero. And to make sure that you're not likely to have extra successes that won't be doing anything anymore, they increased the scatter ranges to make you work harder. Nice of them to make sure that you wont feel that your well spent skill points are being wasted.

And now, because there's no difference now between a really successful throw that was aimed at a person and one that was aimed at a location, the FAQ answer's instructions to treat a throw against a location as if it had been thrown at a one of the mobile targets in the blast radius is workable, even if still not supported by the RAW.
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inca1980

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« Reply #5 on: <10-24-10/1428:11> »
So one thing i'm wondering is if the defender gets more net hits in the opposed test does he then start to increase the scatter distance?  I've been doing it in a way that each net hit allows the character to move one meter further from where the scatter roll determined where it went off.  This makes it so that they can dodge behind cover if it's close by. 

Angelone

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« Reply #6 on: <10-24-10/1435:37> »
I always understood the scatter on grenades, they roll I get it, having thrown them irl it's a very easy thing to compensate for so my only grip about it is the scatter is too big and random.

Missiles and rockets though? I really can't understand it. Granted I'm nowhere near as experienced with them, but imo it should be a hit or miss thing. Especially with guided missiles.
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Snack Happy

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« Reply #7 on: <10-24-10/1447:04> »
I agree with the grenades as well but why are the missiles and rockets such big distances off

Doc Chaos

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« Reply #8 on: <10-25-10/0736:08> »
Well, guided missiles DO get a bonus from their sensor rating, so those are not THAT far off... but yes, it is still pretty ridiculous.
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Chaemera

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« Reply #9 on: <11-01-10/1726:11> »
Missiles and rockets though? I really can't understand it. Granted I'm nowhere near as experienced with them, but imo it should be a hit or miss thing. Especially with guided missiles.

One of the players in my group fired LAWs for a living back in the day, they put them through windows. Rockets don't scatter. The question is where did the target move to, if you weren't aiming at a wall or a window (his usual target).
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