Shadowrun

Shadowrun General => The Secret History => Topic started by: dodger on <09-08-10/2224:06>

Title: Harlequin
Post by: dodger on <09-08-10/2224:06>
[OOC]
Ok, I've been playing Shadowrun for around 15 years or so and I've always wanted to run Harlequin, but I had never had access to the book...... until a co-worker (I work at a hobby/ gaming store) found out my long obsession with the game and he came in to work with a duffel bag bag full of his old books and inside I find a copy of Harlequin, as well as several 1st and 2nd edition books. (Happy day) Anyways I've glanced through the adventure and while I know I should not start a new team of runners with it, I would like to take them through it eventually. I wonder if this is easily converted to 4th, or should I just forget it and go with Dusk? (After the obligatory "Food Fight" for my new runners)
Any help/ advise would be great, and thanks in advance!

-Dodger 
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: FastJack on <09-08-10/2236:03>
I think it's okay for a new team of 'runners, but don't have any experience converting it. Glancing through it, it doesn't seem to be too difficult to convert...
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: dodger on <09-08-10/2256:29>
Well it would be a first for me as well. Do you think it would ruin the setting of the adventure to use the matrix as presented in 4th. (wireless I mean) I've looked into it before with other adventures (Brainscan) and we just used the 4th edition matrix rule set, but we turned the wireless router off to limited success.

-Dodger

As a side note, does this adventure touch on the cycles of magic and the Horrors like Harlequin's Back does? Or does it focus mostly with Harlequin's feud with Ehran? I'm starting a complete read-through now so I wont waste everyones time asking questions I can find out myself. I was just wondering if any veterans and run it and their impressions/ suggestions.
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: FastJack on <09-08-10/2307:11>
It's a definite focus of his feud with Ehran, no mention of the Horrors is even made. The matrix doesn't play a big part in the adventure, so you should be able to get away with using the 4E rules.
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: dodger on <09-08-10/2327:03>
Many thanks Sir Jack.
Not having to worry about the matrix in an older adventure is a great relief.

-Dodger

P.S. As a side question, has Harlequin been mentioned in anything later than Harlequin's back and the Dragon Heart Saga? I would love some additional reading, or at least some info on what has happened to the Laughing Man.
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: FastJack on <09-08-10/2353:35>
He keeps making comments in the Shadowland posts, the last time he was heard on the boards was in 2065 in the Shadows of Asia book. Although he's not part of the Jackpointers in the new sourcebooks -- but Jane "Frosty" Foster is.

Should also mention that Frosty is a big part of the Dawn of the Artifacts adventures (Available over on DriveThruRPG (http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=dawn+of+the+artifacts&x=0&y=0&quicksearch=1&search_filter=&filters=&search_free=&search_in_description=1&search_in_author=1&search_in_artist=1)), and Ehran popped up in the most recent part. There's one more part, but there's been no word on whether our favorite clown will be in it.
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: dodger on <09-09-10/0007:36>
Thats great news that Frosty is in the new adventures, and now Ehran re-surfaces as well? Mayhaps the old meta-plot is back in fashion eh?

-Dodger

Side note: I'm sure I'm not the only one who guessed that the "Jester Spirit" form the SNES game was somehow a link/ reference to our man H?
P.S. apologies for all or my misplaced thoughts this evening, it seems I need to go find me some soy-caf so I can keep my thought straight.
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: Doc Chaos on <09-09-10/0053:19>
Thats great news that Frosty is in the new adventures, and now Ehran re-surfaces as well? Mayhaps the old meta-plot is back in fashion eh?

I sure as hell hope not...
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: Tarot on <09-09-10/0125:05>
I'm pretty sure that in the short fiction at the beginning of the 1st installment of artifacts Harlequin and Ehron are the ones playing the vr game Dawn of Atlantis X: City of Spires. Harlequin is the dwarf and Ehron is the ork.
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: Casazil on <09-09-10/0127:10>
Ahh the Artfull Dodger been a bit sense I seen you pipe up. (Yes the character)

As to Dawn I seen to recall a teaser of this adventure where I think Jason said something that hinted Harlequin was going to make some sorta apearance.
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: FastJack on <09-09-10/0857:54>
I'm pretty sure that in the short fiction at the beginning of the 1st installment of artifacts Harlequin and Ehron are the ones playing the vr game Dawn of Atlantis X: City of Spires. Harlequin is the dwarf and Ehron is the ork.
Really... I haven't read them completely through yet, just skimmed them to see if I wanted to integrate them in the campaign I'm writing. Looks like I'll have to go back and read them.
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: Kaarchin on <09-09-10/0937:23>
That is one of the rare instance when i can say i am lucky to be French.
Some times ago Harlequin and Harlequin's Back where edited in French and in 4th Edition. So if you can find a French linguasoft you may want to check it out.

I still havent read them even if they are sitting on my desk for months now, waiting for a chum to keep his word and run it...
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: Doc Chaos on <09-09-10/0958:51>
I'm pretty sure that in the short fiction at the beginning of the 1st installment of artifacts Harlequin and Ehron are the ones playing the vr game Dawn of Atlantis X: City of Spires. Harlequin is the dwarf and Ehron is the ork.
Really... I haven't read them completely through yet, just skimmed them to see if I wanted to integrate them in the campaign I'm writing. Looks like I'll have to go back and read them.

Why in the name of all that is roasted and squishy would you want to integrate HIM into your campaign? o_O
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: FastJack on <09-09-10/1034:19>
What can I say, I like the crazy ol' coot. :D
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: Doc Chaos on <09-09-10/1044:11>
Well, I guess if it wasn't for the whole "immortal elves horrors earthdawn crossover" affair... I guess I'd think he's pretty neat ;)
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: FastJack on <09-09-10/1123:48>
You have to look at it like I do. The 'big dogs' took action to prevent the Horrors from crossing over for a least a few centuries. So, don't worry. Be happy. ;D
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: Doc Chaos on <09-09-10/1125:48>
You have to look at it like I do. The 'big dogs' took action to prevent the Horrors from crossing over for a least a few centuries. So, don't worry. Be happy. ;D

I just don't like that whole storyline... I'm simply much more Cyberpunk than Mage, I guess...
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: Critias on <09-09-10/1239:16>
Why in the name of all that is roasted and squishy would you want to integrate HIM into your campaign? o_O
It always seems to surprise the haters that not everyone hates Harlequin and the other Immortal Elves, the Great Dragon conspiracies, the Earthdawn links, etc, etc...
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: Doc Chaos on <09-09-10/1330:30>
I don't hate. I just don't like it, but I accept it as official story and I use it when need be (for example, when I'm GMing official adventures). But H is one (if not THE) most powerful beings in the known universe of Shadowrun. Bringing him into an adventure means some SERIOUS drek has or is about to hit the fast rotating object.
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: FastJack on <09-09-10/1336:08>
I don't hate. I just don't like it, but I accept it as official story and I use it when need be (for example, when I'm GMing official adventures). But H is one (if not THE) most powerful beings in the known universe of Shadowrun. Bringing him into an adventure means some SERIOUS drek has or is about to hit the fast rotating object.
Oh yeah... That's why he very rarely shows up in any games I'm running. If he's there, time to break out the HE/EMP grenades and lasers.
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: Jadehellbringer on <09-09-10/1343:06>
I don't hate. I just don't like it, but I accept it as official story and I use it when need be (for example, when I'm GMing official adventures). But H is one (if not THE) most powerful beings in the known universe of Shadowrun. Bringing him into an adventure means some SERIOUS drek has or is about to hit the fast rotating object.
Oh yeah... That's why he very rarely shows up in any games I'm running. If he's there, time to break out the HE/EMP grenades and lasers.

For a moment I thought you said HEMP grenades, and I was pondering new and interesting ways to take down a dragon...
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: Doc Chaos on <09-09-10/1431:08>
I don't hate. I just don't like it, but I accept it as official story and I use it when need be (for example, when I'm GMing official adventures). But H is one (if not THE) most powerful beings in the known universe of Shadowrun. Bringing him into an adventure means some SERIOUS drek has or is about to hit the fast rotating object.
Oh yeah... That's why he very rarely shows up in any games I'm running. If he's there, time to break out the HE/EMP grenades and lasers.

For a moment I thought you said HEMP grenades, and I was pondering new and interesting ways to take down a dragon...

Ok, since I am obviously not getting the joke here, could somebody enlighten the kraut, please? :)
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: Jadehellbringer on <09-09-10/1442:33>
I don't hate. I just don't like it, but I accept it as official story and I use it when need be (for example, when I'm GMing official adventures). But H is one (if not THE) most powerful beings in the known universe of Shadowrun. Bringing him into an adventure means some SERIOUS drek has or is about to hit the fast rotating object.
Oh yeah... That's why he very rarely shows up in any games I'm running. If he's there, time to break out the HE/EMP grenades and lasers.

For a moment I thought you said HEMP grenades, and I was pondering new and interesting ways to take down a dragon...

Ok, since I am obviously not getting the joke here, could somebody enlighten the kraut, please? :)

Hemp = marijuana = gas grenade full of weed smoke to make the dragon happy... or at least give him a case of munchies...
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: FastJack on <09-09-10/1446:21>
I don't hate. I just don't like it, but I accept it as official story and I use it when need be (for example, when I'm GMing official adventures). But H is one (if not THE) most powerful beings in the known universe of Shadowrun. Bringing him into an adventure means some SERIOUS drek has or is about to hit the fast rotating object.
Oh yeah... That's why he very rarely shows up in any games I'm running. If he's there, time to break out the HE/EMP grenades and lasers.

For a moment I thought you said HEMP grenades, and I was pondering new and interesting ways to take down a dragon...

Ok, since I am obviously not getting the joke here, could somebody enlighten the kraut, please? :)

Hemp = marijuana = gas grenade full of weed smoke to make the dragon happy... or at least give him a case of munchies...
How would giving a 10 ton lizard munchies HELP you?!?
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: Doc Chaos on <09-09-10/1524:16>
Make your death quicker? Dragon with the munchies is sure to gulp you down with one bite :)

Oh, and thanks Jade :) Yet another word for weed...
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: Jadehellbringer on <09-09-10/1641:09>
I don't hate. I just don't like it, but I accept it as official story and I use it when need be (for example, when I'm GMing official adventures). But H is one (if not THE) most powerful beings in the known universe of Shadowrun. Bringing him into an adventure means some SERIOUS drek has or is about to hit the fast rotating object.
Oh yeah... That's why he very rarely shows up in any games I'm running. If he's there, time to break out the HE/EMP grenades and lasers.

For a moment I thought you said HEMP grenades, and I was pondering new and interesting ways to take down a dragon...

Ok, since I am obviously not getting the joke here, could somebody enlighten the kraut, please? :)

Hemp = marijuana = gas grenade full of weed smoke to make the dragon happy... or at least give him a case of munchies...
How would giving a 10 ton lizard munchies HELP you?!?

If he's jonesing for Cheez-Its and Dr. Pepper, he's not paying attention to whatever it is I'm there to do. ;)

(Not that I'd know of such things, of course. I never went to college or anything, you know. ;) )
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: FastJack on <09-09-10/1644:33>
I don't hate. I just don't like it, but I accept it as official story and I use it when need be (for example, when I'm GMing official adventures). But H is one (if not THE) most powerful beings in the known universe of Shadowrun. Bringing him into an adventure means some SERIOUS drek has or is about to hit the fast rotating object.
Oh yeah... That's why he very rarely shows up in any games I'm running. If he's there, time to break out the HE/EMP grenades and lasers.

For a moment I thought you said HEMP grenades, and I was pondering new and interesting ways to take down a dragon...

Ok, since I am obviously not getting the joke here, could somebody enlighten the kraut, please? :)

Hemp = marijuana = gas grenade full of weed smoke to make the dragon happy... or at least give him a case of munchies...
How would giving a 10 ton lizard munchies HELP you?!?

If he's jonesing for Cheez-Its and Dr. Pepper, he's not paying attention to whatever it is I'm there to do. ;)

(Not that I'd know of such things, of course. I never went to college or anything, you know. ;) )
Meh... I was a Goldfish and Coca-cola man. And the straightest straight-X you ever saw in college. To this the day, the hardest thing I've done is Tequila. Sweet, evil tequila.

*ahem*

But on the subject of Harlequin, I'm kinda hoping he might make just a cameo in the last Dawn of the Artifacts book. If just to tweek Ehran's nose a bit...
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: dodger on <09-09-10/1824:22>
I hope so as well. But instead of tweaking his nose, he could maybe tug his ear?

-Dodger
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: Kentares on <09-09-10/2018:00>
You have to look at it like I do. The 'big dogs' took action to prevent the Horrors from crossing over for a least a few centuries. So, don't worry. Be happy. ;D

I just don't like that whole storyline... I'm simply much more Cyberpunk than Mage, I guess...

That whole storyline was the main culprit to get me into SR/ED (and like you I´m not a mage kind of guy)
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: Tarot on <09-09-10/2303:53>
I personally don't like to use the IM's or GD's in my games but I like the way they give depth and history to the rest of the setting. It's just that most of my runners are more concerned with street level affairs than earth shattering event's. (The artifacts arc may be an exception)
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: raben-aas on <09-10-10/0532:03>
For the record: I hate (yes, hate) the SR/ED crossover and every single bit that smells like it, too. ED as a former SR never worked for me, the concept in itself is broken in way too many places to actually even consider it as anything than a joke or a very very weak marketing tool (from a storytelling point of view, of course EVERYTHING can be explained ingame, much like Aliens versus Predator or Jason versus Freddy or Freddy versus Aliens or Winnie Poo versus Vader).  

If you wanna cross two totally unrelated games by the same publisher, play BattleRun. That at least would be FUN.

Sorry to sound like a total ass, and be assured that my eternal and infernal wrath will only manifest every so often by a short outburst like this one, without ever being directed against anyone in particular. Play everything you like, as long as I'm free to ignore the ED/SR stuff (so unless Harlequin gets voted to be the next world president or the Therans start actually popping up or we get f*ing windling street samurais, I'm fine).

AAS

BTW: I don't hate ED. It played some sessions, I liked it even somewhat, just not enough to keep playing it (so many systems, so little time). Just ED and SR having anything to do with each other is just ... wrong.
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: Doc Chaos on <09-10-10/0538:33>
Poo versus Vader).  

That I'd PAY to see.

Quote
windling street samurais

AAS

*cough*Pixies*cough* *runs for cover*
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: raben-aas on <09-10-10/0539:46>
Poo versus Vader).  

That I'd PAY to see.

You saw Episode III, or didn't you?  :)
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: Doc Chaos on <09-10-10/0550:50>
Now I have to clean my monitor... and keyboard... and parts of my desk...*

*this mess was brought to you by: Pepsi Cola
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: Casazil on <09-10-10/0648:12>
HA! for that he gets an applaud!
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: Frankie the Fomori on <09-10-10/1128:33>
LOL, I can see why some people do not like the cross over but for me even though i started with SR i played ED for three years in high school. We put so much into developing it, and our GM was brilliant with his conspiracy theory type games. He made us fear even the lowest level Horror, so know it is awesome to see it continued.

As far as seeing some of IE or great dragons in games I run.....yeah if they are there, it is not going to be playing a big role, maybe old Caimbueul is in a cafe, or out for a night in France...but i do not like world shaking events in my games. I include Inscets, shedim, and nasty blood magic, big NPC's, but never on the scale of do this or a country falls....that stuff lost it's fun years ago, I like creating a setting that is rich with detailed NPC's, and room for my PC's to create there story.

Have  a great day runners!
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: Prime Mover on <09-10-10/1244:01>
The setup was there it's a shame when Earthdawn was done it wasn't tied in better.  Honestly sometimes if feels like someone sitting around with both books on table said. "Hey you know what this Earthdawn thing is sorta like what we had in mind for SR's past...Hmmm".

Having said that I like that SR has ties to the last age and I've never really had a problem with IE's or GD's.  Interaction has always been low with these beings usually a plot point as opposed to a goal or game changer.  Although I've found as players learn more about whats going on behind the scenes in SR they tend to seek out these power players.

Edit: We could form a dev team and set up a proposal for "Shadowrun The Fourth Age RPG" to Catalyst and clean up the tie ins !
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: FastJack on <09-10-10/1340:26>
The setup was there it's a shame when Earthdawn was done it wasn't tied in better.  Honestly sometimes if feels like someone sitting around with both books on table said. "Hey you know what this Earthdawn thing is sorta like what we had in mind for SR's past...Hmmm".

Having said that I like that SR has ties to the last age and I've never really had a problem with IE's or GD's.  Interaction has always been low with these beings usually a plot point as opposed to a goal or game changer.  Although I've found as players learn more about whats going on behind the scenes in SR they tend to seek out these power players.

Edit: We could form a dev team and set up a proposal for "Shadowrun The Fourth Age RPG" to Catalyst and clean up the tie ins !
Nah... You'd have to call it ShadowDawn or EarthRun or somethin'... ;)
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: Doc Chaos on <09-10-10/1706:28>
Earthrun - the dawn of shadows

Actually, that doesn't sound so bad at all...
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: FastJack on <09-10-10/1751:37>
I don't know. I think ShadowDawn sounds better... More ominous.
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: Casazil on <09-10-10/1809:32>
Or you could make a new name not useing either of the current names for current games.
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: FastJack on <09-10-10/1810:44>
Where's the fun in that? ;D
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: Dead Monky on <09-10-10/1813:44>
Let's call it Sparkles and really mess with people's heads.
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: Casazil on <09-10-10/1818:18>
The proble with useing a combo name is some people who are hardcore fans of either would get all annoied at even the smallest of things that doesn't fit to what they know and then you end up with people causeing problems on fourms and what not or a game.

Sorry new name less headachs I just want to play! ;D
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: FastJack on <09-10-10/1829:34>
Ahh... The fans are going to get annoyed anyway since we're going to totally ignore back story and make the Horrors servants of The Beast and the PCs will be fighting them with swords & magic & a super-shuriken.

And I like the name Sparkles - really captures the feel of the setting.

(http://www.filmsy.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/08/Krull1.jpg) (http://www.hulu.com/watch/173606/krull)
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: Casazil on <09-10-10/1845:37>
Hey now !!! I like Krull!!!

In 2nd I worked out how to make the Krull blade work. (well to the best of my ability)
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: Dead Monky on <09-10-10/1856:55>
I need to see that still.  It looks kind of badass in a cheesy sort of way.
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: FastJack on <09-10-10/1859:54>
Click on the poster. I set it up with a link to Hulu where they've got it free-to-view.
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: Casazil on <09-10-10/1911:55>
Sweet!!
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: Dead Monky on <09-10-10/1923:47>
Hell yeah sweet.  Now I have something to do on my day off tomorrow.
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: The_Gun_Nut on <09-12-10/1038:09>
It is suuuuper cheeesy.  I watched it as a child in the theaters when it first came out.  (At the drive in, if memory serves.)  Even then I knew it was cheesy.  That didn't make it not fun, however, just fun in a different light.

I enjoy the references to ED that are sprinkled about in SR.  I just don't use the previous history for my games, as I tend to run games that are more street level (at least, at the beginning) and involve regular people more than fantastic creatures.  I really like the fact that everyone acts jaded and apathetic to miracles happening all around them.  It makes the setting just like the real world with real people in it.

Don't believe that people will be apathetic about miracles?  No?  How about the fact that, IRL and the current time, humans have flat out INVENTED a new life form?  Or the fact that we can remotely explore other planets?  How about the advancement of technology to the degree that we are beginning to see cyborgs and cybernetics crop up.  How about a printer that can "print" new organs for you?  How 'bout that cloining?

See?  It's amazing how people dismiss the world of wonders we have today.  I don't see that changing just because a few big lizards or long lived pixies just happen to be around.
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: bobo69 on <09-12-10/1336:18>
I like Krull too, I have the SE DVD with audio commentary.

Oh yeah I remember watching it with Lifeforce.
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: Casazil on <09-12-10/1829:20>
Lifeforce another movie I liked.
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: Longshot23 on <09-13-10/1117:02>
Back to Harlequin-related stuff . . . I find it interesting that in Corporate Guide, Frosty refers to Aina Dupree as 'the bitch'.  Given Aina's history (friendly if not romantic) with Harlequin himself, wouldn't you think Frosty would have less antipathy?  i suppose there's metaplot/background stuff that we just don't know . . .
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: The_Gun_Nut on <09-13-10/1118:00>
It's probably Aina's attitude Frost doesn't like.  Aina hasn't displayed any warmth to anyone in the passages I have read.
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: FastJack on <09-13-10/1236:13>
Actually, isn't Harlequin pretty turned off on Aina as well? Some choice comments in Aztechnology implies there's more bad blood than good between them...
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: Turtletron on <09-13-10/1615:58>
Earthrun - the dawn of shadows

Actually, that doesn't sound so bad at all...


Dawnrun- shadows of earth  :P
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: FastJack on <09-13-10/1618:55>
ShadowEarth - The dawn of running :P
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: anotherJack on <09-13-10/1630:40>
Quote
THE LONG SHADOWS OF EARTH
Equinox: Long Shadows of Earth is our first adventure campaign coming out for the Equinox game line.
::)
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: FastJack on <09-13-10/1646:44>
Quote
THE LONG SHADOWS OF EARTH
Equinox: Long Shadows of Earth is our first adventure campaign coming out for the Equinox game line.
::)
Sure... Ruin our fun! :P ;)
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: BlackMyron on <09-13-10/1937:44>
 Didn't Aina and Harlequin meet in Worlds Without End?  They seemed to get along okay, IIRC.
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: FastJack on <09-13-10/2005:27>
D'oh!

<internal enchephalon processorrr.. crassssshinnnngg>
<Math SP*$^U dump log 15%>
<Error>
<Error>
<Reboot Y/N?>
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: Longshot23 on <09-13-10/2010:23>
Actually, isn't Harlequin pretty turned off on Aina as well? Some choice comments in Aztechnology implies there's more bad blood than good between them...

I don't recall Aina posting in Aztechnology . . . or indeed ever.
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: FastJack on <09-13-10/2036:28>
I had gotten confused with Lady of the Court... My bad.
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: Longshot23 on <09-13-10/2100:54>
The Secret History posters in Aztechnology were as follows:

THE BIG ‘D’ = Dunkelzahn (no duh!)

HECATE = outed as Sheila Blatavaska, head of the Atlantean Foundation

WORDSMYTH = Ehran the Scribe

THE LAUGHING MAN = take a wild guess

LADY OF THE COURT = probably Lady Brane Deigh, never has been confirmed or denied

JUNGLE CAT = from Amazonia

UMSONDO = possibly from Azania, or near there

Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: BlackMyron on <09-13-10/2214:00>
  "Laughing Man" has a pretty interesting conversation with someone called Ambrose in the Virtual Realities 2.0 sourcebook - has anyone identified who Ambrose was?
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: FastJack on <09-13-10/2228:36>
I've seen no clues/hints as to who it may be. It's implied he's an Immortal, and may have been Ambrose Bierce (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ambrose_Bierce) during the downtime.
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: Longshot23 on <09-14-10/2103:04>
I have a list of the IEs and Dragons, if anyone is interested.  It's too big to post or attach.
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: FastJack on <09-14-10/2157:43>
If you want, you can mail it to me, I have some webspace I can host it on.

Also, it is more detailed than list on Dumpshock (http://ancientfiles.dumpshock.com/Immortals.htm)?
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: Longshot23 on <09-14-10/2241:21>
If you want, you can mail it to me, I have some webspace I can host it on.

Also, it is more detailed than list on Dumpshock (http://ancientfiles.dumpshock.com/Immortals.htm)?

Actually I ripped it from the Ancient History site, which Dumpshock references/links to.  I have it as a Word doc - best viewed in landscape.
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: bobo69 on <09-14-10/2308:40>
is the name Man of many names another knickname for Harlequin?
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: FastJack on <09-14-10/2315:47>
No. Man-of-Many-Names is an ancient shaman who has been around since 1st Edition and is considered to be one of the leading experts on spirits in the Shadows (and possible outside them too). A profile of him is available in the 10 Jackpointers (http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product_info.php?products_id=79178) PDF.
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: Angelone on <09-18-10/1747:40>
I think he is going to show up in the next Artifact adventure. I'll probably react badly if he does.


SPOILER for Darkest Hour




It seems Harlequin and Ehran are working together to get Frosty and the team to gather the artifacts for them, as shown by how Ehran was the Johnson in the Darkest Hour yet they were being gathered at Chateu D'if which is Harlequin's home.
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: Prime Mover on <09-21-10/1328:24>
I think he is going to show up in the next Artifact adventure. I'll probably react badly if he does.

Why all the hate?
Show some love for your Elders.    ;)
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: Angelone on <09-21-10/1512:10>
I've run through his adventures... The first wasn't bad, but Harlequin's Back >:(  >:( Even the fiction he's in is kinda offputting to me.
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: FastJack on <09-21-10/1520:48>
Pssht... Don't listen to Angelone. Just because him and his team decided NOT to stay on the bridge for all eternity... (j/k Angel!) ;D
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: Prime Mover on <09-21-10/1521:46>
Yea H2 really didn't capture the feel of the first.
My concept of him is from the 1st and thats how I've played him out.  Although the opening fiction for the second wasn't bad...actually adventures were meh.
Don't remember too much fiction with him in it outside of a few vignettes that I cared for either.
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: Prime Mover on <09-21-10/1523:32>
I'm no hater though.  I was luke-warm on 3rd edition due to lack of the rich backstory that 1st and 2nd had established.  IE's GD"s the whole nine yards.
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: The_Gun_Nut on <09-21-10/1700:24>
I've run through his adventures... The first wasn't bad, but Harlequin's Back >:(  >:( Even the fiction he's in is kinda offputting to me.
How DOES one relate to someone over 5000 years old?
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: Dead Monky on <09-21-10/1701:29>
LSD?
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: FastJack on <09-21-10/1708:41>
Ask them what it was like in the old days. Before they invented fire and stuff...

Did this to a guy we used to work with on the help desk that was in his late 40's/early 50's - HEY, it was the 90's and we were in our 20's. He had a great comeback too. He stopped at my desk, and just, in the most cavalier voice ever, "Well... It was dark. A lot. And the food was always cold."
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: BlackMyron on <09-21-10/2223:29>
  When I was a kid, my computer had 48K of memory... and NO HARD DRIVE.  There was no CD drive, not even a disk drive - we had to use an AUDIO CASSETTE RECORDER.   :o
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: FastJack on <09-21-10/2305:33>
  When I was a kid, my computer had 48K of memory... and NO HARD DRIVE.  There was no CD drive, not even a disk drive - we had to use an AUDIO CASSETTE RECORDER.   :o
But did you have a cup-holder? :P
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: Angelone on <09-22-10/0000:50>
I've run through his adventures... The first wasn't bad, but Harlequin's Back >:(  >:( Even the fiction he's in is kinda offputting to me.
How DOES one relate to someone over 5000 years old?

One doesn't I doubt even the most empathic person in the world could do it. It's just too foreign to our frame of reference.
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: Nomad Zophiel on <10-22-10/0330:03>
Shadowrun the Fourth Age -

Where your characters are outcasts, living iand working in the pseudo-medieval Emerald City. Through no fault of their own they are on the outside of society and are forced to take illegal jobs from various merchant princes, dragons and elven lords competing for scarce resources with no concern for the damage they are doing to the manasphere or the harm they may cause the common man. An entire subcaste of outcasts merchants known as Fixers set up the meetings between these Runners (so called because they are on the run from the law) with repsresentatives of the merchants known as Sir Johnson (because Johnson is still a generic name in the Fourth Age). Runners accept payment only in the anonymous currency of gold while constantly trying to stay off the radar of various surveillance magics and the Knights Errant.

Players can be humans, elves, dawrves, trolls and orcs (in the main book anyway). Despite a history of being an oppressed class, humans are nominally allowed equal rights. They still suffer social penalties outside their own ghetto or the powerful human Native Nations. While most of the high powered roles involve Magic, a small but growing force called "technology" has produced some surprising innovations that can turn the tide. Archteypes include the Black Knight (a masterless combat specialist whose abilities have been enhanced by Adept powers), the Horseman (who, despite the name, can posess and control any nonmagical animal) and pretty much all of the non-Technomancer characters you loved from Shadowrun.

After writing that I'm no longer entirely sure if I'm being a smartass or if this idea's got legs.
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: FastJack on <10-22-10/0831:49>
After writing that I'm no longer entirely sure if I'm being a smartass or if this idea's got legs.
I'd say the idea has legs (http://www.redbrick-limited.com/cms/index.php?categoryid=18) ;)
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: The_Gun_Nut on <10-22-10/0923:59>
It's called "Earthdawn" and there actually are character classes, so to speak.  (Hint:  They are called adept "Disciplines.")

It can be just as gritty as Shadowrun, even more bleak, but it can also have some high fantasy elements (hope, perserverence, that sort of thing).

And without assault cannons or anti-tank missiles or naval guns, dragons are pretty hard to take out.
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: Nomad Zophiel on <10-22-10/1924:32>
Yeah, the whole thing was kind of a parody of some earlier comments in this thread about how ED really didn't feel like SR-4th Age. It was intended to be a long and rather convoluted joke about a more Shadowrun-ish Earthdawn. A sample quote I should have included in the first one:
Quote
The setup was there it's a shame when Earthdawn was done it wasn't tied in better.  Honestly sometimes if feels like someone sitting around with both books on table said. "Hey you know what this Earthdawn thing is sorta like what we had in mind for SR's past...Hmmm".

Having said that I like that SR has ties to the last age and I've never really had a problem with IE's or GD's.  Interaction has always been low with these beings usually a plot point as opposed to a goal or game changer.  Although I've found as players learn more about whats going on behind the scenes in SR they tend to seek out these power players.

Edit: We could form a dev team and set up a proposal for "Shadowrun The Fourth Age RPG" to Catalyst and clean up the tie ins !
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: raben-aas on <10-26-10/1021:19>
  When I was a kid, my computer had 48K of memory... and NO HARD DRIVE.  There was no CD drive, not even a disk drive - we had to use an AUDIO CASSETTE RECORDER.   :o

The GDR was actually more advanced than we are now, back in the 80ies. Datasettes (Audio Casette Recorders) were pretty common as a storage device, but apparently only GDR hacks got the idea to broadcast code signals via RADIO, so that you could record the radio show on audio cassette and voilà: Instant program broadcast :)
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: Kot on <11-15-10/1026:08>
I'm going back to an old off-topic, if you forgive my thread necromancy. :P

The thing is, that ED was intended as a 'prequel/spin-off' for SR, but evloved on its own, growing in depth as much as SR did. So even if they had some things in common, like certain dragons, and immortal elves, they were different games in the same world. As for example DarkSun is to Forgotten Realms - we have elves and halflings in both, but they're entirelly different. ED has blossomed, and even though there was no serious line development for some time, it looks like there would be now. With the new Cathay sourcebooks, and plans on making city sourcebooks, AND a big, (new)metaplot ridden campaign RedBrick really succeded in making Earthdawn alive again... I only hope that ED will in time reach the level of development SR is on now... But they're still different games, and you can't blame ED for including SR's original elements.
I know, that dragons and immortal elves can be a pain in th rear - i hate the dragon-metaplot in ED myself, especially for killing my favorite dragon, Vasdenjas, Master of Secrets and Eater of Cities (just one). But i can just not involve players with that, or at the least try to turn them into major players, or at least pawns that do more than intended (if i ever manage to get a campaing running). But they're somwhere behind the shadows, oiling the cogs of metaplot, and saving the Sixth World. So if you want to inolve your players in saving the world, you either deal with it, or find another way. Not every threat is covered by the Immortal Elves and Dragons High Threat Response Squad. In fact, if players manage to find a way to deal with it, all the metaplotting NPC's could do is stare at the smoldering ruins littered with charred carcasses ot Some Evil Cult That Almost Called Verjigorm In and His Minor Servants*. And that works especially well, if the PC's left a camera at the site...

On the other hand, playing an ED campaign in which the Heroes deal with something, that raises its ugly head again in SR should be an awesome thing. Especially if your combat mage gets his Elementalists magical ring in the process, or something like that. It's not only that small things matter - medium and big ones do too. Forgetting about them would be racist anyway. :P


It can be just as gritty as Shadowrun, even more bleak, but it can also have some high fantasy elements (hope, perserverence, that sort of thing).

And without assault cannons or anti-tank missiles or naval guns, dragons are pretty hard to take out.
Well, the Horrors are still there in number. That's pretty much enough. :P
And as for the dragonslaying, the Theran Empire (Atlantis in SR) managed to pull of a dragon hunt just before the Scourge (the time, in which most Horrors came), because they wanted to have monopol on Kaers (the Vaults of ED, designed to withstand horror assaults), and dragons obviously had, and shared that kind of secret. They managed to kill a few dragons, but lost a Behemoth in the process. And a Behemoth was a giant flying fortress holding thousands of warriors, elemental weapons and hundreds of magicians - a true Death Star class weapon (fueled by a very nasty kind of Blood Magic, which still had it's beneficial uses, like oaths, back in the Age of Legends). And following that Icewing/Ghostwalker just walked in on their capital and began assasinating prominent bigwigs inwolved in the hunt... Yeah, he's that awesome. He's Big D's older brother, and the spotlight is on him in Earthdawn, as he's the only easily approachable dragon - you just need to climb wild mountains above the snow level, and bring him a nice gift... And that only grants you an audience. :P


* I assume they were savvy runners, and KILLED IT WITH FIRE. :P

P.S. Remember, that SR was first, and ED second. So there are no ED references in SR. There are SR references in ED. :P
P.P.S. And Adepts in ED can be as much of a deniable asset, as Shadowrunners. I can't remember how many times we were screwed over by our employer, and still managed to survive, and kick the living crap outta them. :P
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: The_Gun_Nut on <11-15-10/1311:01>
<snip>

I know, that dragons and immortal elves can be a pain in th rear - i hate the dragon-metaplot in ED myself, especially for killing my favorite dragon, Vasdenjas, Master of Secrets and Eater of Cities (just one)

If you are referring to the ED 2nd Edition published by Living Room Games, then don't worry.  FASA got irritated by LRG's handling of their line, and pulled their support.  RedBrick retro'd the timeline, and it is now prior to the war LRG started and then killed Vasdenjas with.  Go ahead and cheer.

Also, early on, the SR developers had an idea for something for metaplot, and included it in some of their products (Bottle Demon comes to mind).  It was only later, when Earthdawn was produced that it got fleshed out into the Horrors and the whole OHGODITSEATINGMYFACE thing.
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: Angelone on <11-15-10/1353:19>
I liked the Earthdawn setting not too crazy about the crossover with Shadowrun. I have to rebuy all my ED books now :'(

Edit- Although Battlerun was pure win.
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: The_Gun_Nut on <11-15-10/1355:34>
You can get a goodly number of them in PDF format.  I highly recommend RedBrick's Third Edition.  It cleans up the ruleset very well, and introduces some much needed character options (Disciplines were much more rigid before).  They also tweeked most (if not all) the talents and spells to work better together.
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: Angelone on <11-15-10/1400:29>
I'll check it out the only books I still have are the 1st ed core book, the horrors book, and the boxed set that had the magic items on the cards. Don't remember what the last one was called.
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: Prime Mover on <11-15-10/1400:46>
We'd been playing SR for a long while prior to ever trying out ED.  After a few games of ED one of my players started an uprising at our table.  Demanding to have their ED characters placed into some form of suspended animation at some point in the campaign and letting them show up in the Shadowrun universe.  Now I'm one thats all good with the crossover stuff and a big fan of -H- and other metaplot tie ins.  But honestly I had to say no to the character crossover.  I still hear the idea tossed around from time to time.   I always found the connections more backwards then forwards compatible though.
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: Prime Mover on <11-15-10/1402:02>
I'll check it out the only books I still have are the 1st ed core book, the horrors book, and the boxed set that had the magic items on the cards. Don't remember what the last one was called.

Lost City of Parlainth? (sp)
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: FastJack on <11-15-10/1425:44>
We'd been playing SR for a long while prior to ever trying out ED.  After a few games of ED one of my players started an uprising at our table.  Demanding to have their ED characters placed into some form of suspended animation at some point in the campaign and letting them show up in the Shadowrun universe.  Now I'm one thats all good with the crossover stuff and a big fan of -H- and other metaplot tie ins.  But honestly I had to say no to the character crossover.  I still hear the idea tossed around from time to time.   I always found the connections more backwards then forwards compatible though.
Heck, have them stumble into a strange locus right as a Theran high priest is casting an unknown spell, opening a portal to Seattle. In the middle of the Renraku Arcology. During the lockdown. ;)
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: Angelone on <11-15-10/1428:52>
No, I had that at one point but it disappeared to the same pocket dimension that half my d12s are currently residing. It's the Barsaive boxed set I still have.

Edit- I think it's Ravenloft.
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: The_Gun_Nut on <11-15-10/1508:06>
I'll check it out the only books I still have are the 1st ed core book, the horrors book, and the boxed set that had the magic items on the cards. Don't remember what the last one was called.
Barsaive boxed set.  Parlainth had a few, but you would remember the creepy black book that came with it.
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: Kot on <11-15-10/1727:59>
If you are referring to the ED 2nd Edition published by Living Room Games, then don't worry.  FASA got irritated by LRG's handling of their line, and pulled their support.  RedBrick retro'd the timeline, and it is now prior to the war LRG started and then killed Vasdenjas with.  Go ahead and cheer.
But they still have Prelude, where dragons are pulling all the strings. Remember that Denairastas is the Outcast. :P
And i did mean one of the sourcebooks, the one that has the Horror Cloud and the destruction of Skypoint (along with the death of Vasdenjas and Vestrivan, my two favourite dragons). I know the next one was rubbish and wamp gas.. .

Also, early on, the SR developers had an idea for something for metaplot, and included it in some of their products (Bottle Demon comes to mind).  It was only later, when Earthdawn was produced that it got fleshed out into the Horrors and the whole OHGODITSEATINGMYFACE thing.
More like 'OHMYGODMYDACEISATTHEBACKOFMYHEAD'(butitmattersnotasi'mdead). And it's a good thing they did. What i'd do without Horrors in ED? :P

Quote from: The_Gun_Nut
You can get a goodly number of them in PDF format.  I highly recommend RedBrick's Third Edition.  It cleans up the ruleset very well, and introduces some much needed character options (Disciplines were much more rigid before).  They also tweeked most (if not all) the talents and spells to work better together.
Well, it's still not as good as SR4 in regard to the edition before, at least in game mechanics. But it's a start. :P

We'd been playing SR for a long while prior to ever trying out ED.  After a few games of ED one of my players started an uprising at our table.  Demanding to have their ED characters placed into some form of suspended animation at some point in the campaign and letting them show up in the Shadowrun universe.  Now I'm one thats all good with the crossover stuff and a big fan of -H- and other metaplot tie ins.  But honestly I had to say no to the character crossover.  I still hear the idea tossed around from time to time.   I always found the connections more backwards then forwards compatible though.
Well, there's no time travel in the SR universe. Good. :)
And for once - that kind of suspended animation would be only aviliable through magic. And when the magic level goes down... :P Or i'd just Army of Darkness'd him.
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: Longshot23 on <11-16-10/0113:09>
We'd been playing SR for a long while prior to ever trying out ED.  After a few games of ED one of my players started an uprising at our table.  Demanding to have their ED characters placed into some form of suspended animation at some point in the campaign and letting them show up in the Shadowrun universe.  Now I'm one thats all good with the crossover stuff and a big fan of -H- and other metaplot tie ins.  But honestly I had to say no to the character crossover.  I still hear the idea tossed around from time to time.   I always found the connections more backwards then forwards compatible though.

Sounds like a Quest!

You could ask your ED players HOW this would be possible, pointing out things like floods, earthquakes, and basically the intervening millenia.  I don't know ED well enough to just shoot it down, other than it's verging on munchkinism.  I recall seeing one or two conversion guides for ED to SR, but I get the impression it's just not possible.
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: Kot on <11-16-10/0736:18>
As i wrote - the only way to survive that long is magic. And that stops working halfway there. ;P
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: Nomad Zophiel on <11-16-10/0752:07>
We'd been playing SR for a long while prior to ever trying out ED.  After a few games of ED one of my players started an uprising at our table.  Demanding to have their ED characters placed into some form of suspended animation at some point in the campaign and letting them show up in the Shadowrun universe.  Now I'm one thats all good with the crossover stuff and a big fan of -H- and other metaplot tie ins.  But honestly I had to say no to the character crossover.  I still hear the idea tossed around from time to time.   I always found the connections more backwards then forwards compatible though.


Honestly, that would SUCK. I mean, OK, assume that characters of races that don't exist in Shadowrun can still survive. The mana level is too low but they're a weird, one of a kind. Now everyone in the party takes Unecucated, Computer illiterate, Illiterate (or literate only in Sperethiel or Or'zet), Incompetent in more skills than I can count, at least one level of Distinctive Style and probably Uncouth. It really goes beyond that because they have no default on any technology more complex than a carriage and a crossbow. The only languages that might be useful in this new world are Sperethiel and Or'Zet. Non-magical gear transfers but anything else is iffy (ie down-converted to SR stuff at best). Then their magic would have to be down-converted to represent the lower mana level. Doesn't matter how good the characters are, they will not be Prime Runners for a while. Its entirely reasonable to insist that the 70-100 Karma go to buying off the flaws above and getting a useful language before they can spend on anything else.

I picture the first scene in the outside world going something like:
OK, half a dozen orcs are coming at you very quickly on. . .some sort of mount and they're waving. . .some sort of complex big metal sticks and they look hostile. This is followed by a few quick lessons in the dangers of bikes and firearms. Survival rate may not be too good.
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: Archivist on <11-16-10/0841:05>
We'd been playing SR for a long while prior to ever trying out ED.  After a few games of ED one of my players started an uprising at our table.  Demanding to have their ED characters placed into some form of suspended animation at some point in the campaign and letting them show up in the Shadowrun universe.  Now I'm one thats all good with the crossover stuff and a big fan of -H- and other metaplot tie ins.  But honestly I had to say no to the character crossover.  I still hear the idea tossed around from time to time.   I always found the connections more backwards then forwards compatible though.

I did run through an interesting spin on this idea at a convention ages ago when both games were in their first edition I think.  In an Earthdawn event, we recovered a magical item of some power, fought Theran agents, some minor horrors and contructs, while scrambiling to the top of a mountain (it may have been the Infinite Staircase actually) to skyships hovering above....scene fades to white

Pickup in the shadowrun event in mid-battle atop the Aztechnology pyramid in Seattle with helicopters circling, angry jaguar guards, a third party attacking etc.  And an artifact in our possession that everyone wants... 

It was a one off but quite fun.  The characters were pre-made being a convention event, but their core personalities remained the same.  Names and abilities were similar too.  So the ED Warrior was now SR phys adept, Archer was the gun bunny, Wizard obviously fine, Nethermancer was a Shaman with spirits on hand.  Even the names roughly carried over.  Oh and the GM kept the races in both to ork, elf, dwarf and troll.  (windlings/pixies had not been statted out yet in SR)
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: The_Gun_Nut on <11-16-10/1019:51>
Kot, the sourcebook was called "Barsaive at War" and it was made by Living Room Games.  It was one of the reasons that Earthdawn was pulled out of their hands.  MASSIVE changes to storyline, resulting in extremely focused adventuring possibilities, and almost zero improvements to the basic system (which ED severely needed).
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: Kot on <11-16-10/1649:49>
Wasn't there Barsaive in Chaos also?

And ED still needs improvements. And a lot of them...
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: The_Gun_Nut on <11-17-10/0928:48>
There was.  I think it was the proverbial straw, but I could be wrong.

ED could use some tweaks, to be sure.  Every system out there needs something one way or another.  I don't think it needs to be substantially altered, though.  For me, a lot of what makes Earthdawn special is how the system interacts with and reveals the world setting.  Changing it too dramaticly would pull the feel of the world away from what makes it special.
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: Kot on <11-17-10/1021:43>
I was talking about making the rules more modern, with more interaction points and rules like extended tests..
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: The_Gun_Nut on <11-17-10/1053:29>
What do you mean by "interaction points?"
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: Kot on <11-17-10/1115:00>
EDGE, and other kinds of mechanical influence beyond simple rolls.
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: The_Gun_Nut on <11-17-10/2143:09>
Well, there is Karma for adepts and their Discipline talents and Half-Magic tests.  That is what separates them from the average joes.

Also, a character can elect to "push" their abilities by sacrificing some strain (small amount of damage) to get a +3 bonus to any kind of test.  If they really need something to work they can take a blood wound, physically harming themselves and getting a Wound (a longer term penalty that they suffer after the test), in order to get a +7 bonus to a single test.

These are all in-game already, but not often utilized due to the price involved (damage points).  Both have an in-game, in-character rationale behind them even, like most things in ED do.  There are few game settings out there where core game concepts can and are discussed by characters in-game and in-character; Earthdawn mechanics can be discussed between characters and it doesn't break them OOC.
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: Kot on <11-18-10/0709:04>
Karma is not as flexible, as Edge, and Half-magic doesn't really do much, even in Third Edition of ED. Yeah, i know of life magic methods, and they fit the setting perfectly.

I'm just not satisfied with them. I like the way that works in Shadowrun 4th, and Savage Worlds, for example. More possibilities for the player, like a second attempt, failure negation, life-saving, and such...
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: The_Gun_Nut on <11-18-10/0815:10>
Earthdawn has all of those.  They are just called talents (and yes, they are upper Circle talents).

I think the disconnect is from you wanting all the PC's to have them, not just the higher Circle ones.  While I see that might be interesting to model (and I have a couple of ideas about how that could come about), too much might devalue the upper Circle abilities that grant adepts those abilities.

The Life Check talent lets a PC essentially save vs. death.  Second Chance does exactly what the name of the talent does:  Grant a second chance at an important dice roll.  The Vitality talent combined with any other healing ability, including Life Check, makes that character incredibly durable (essentially allowing a character to heal up to four times as much in a day, six times as often, it's that ridiculous).  With the right talent knacks (think specialties or new powers for a given ability), a PC can fall from hundreds of feet up and simply bounce off the ground onto his feet with no damage, bring a critically wounded comrade into a bonfire and heal them, stare at an object and make it shatter, or pick up a loaf of stale bread and beat someone to death with it.

To reiterate, I think that there is some room for what you want in ED, but it must be included in such a way as not to make the other abilities redundant or underpowered.
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: Kot on <11-18-10/1053:37>
Earthdawn has all of those.  They are just called talents (and yes, they are upper Circle talents).
Yeah, i know that, being around as a GM and Player from 1st ed to Third, and owning most ED3 books. ;P

I think the disconnect is from you wanting all the PC's to have them, not just the higher Circle ones.  While I see that might be interesting to model (and I have a couple of ideas about how that could come about), too much might devalue the upper Circle abilities that grant adepts those abilities.
)...)
To reiterate, I think that there is some room for what you want in ED, but it must be included in such a way as not to make the other abilities redundant or underpowered.
Yes. But look at it that way - ED is still in roleplaying rules bronze age. It looks - if you judge by the rules - as rough, as Laubenstein's artwork form the FASA times. No teamplay rules, no extended tests. Crafting rules are pulled out of thin air, and don't really support any kind of gameplay beyond 'don't make your own stuff'.
How many groups reach 13th circle by just playing? We didn't - my ED character just reached fifth circle. After three years of play...
ED should be Heroic. Rerolls help with that, as much as exploding dice.
I know i'm a bit bitter here, but looking at Shadowrun rules for the current edition i cannot help that. ED is not as good, as SR. Probably never will be.
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: The_Gun_Nut on <11-18-10/1328:33>
For the crafting aspect of it, my players are digging into that, and it's proving to be very interesting.  The small magic items are fairly formulaic, and the large ones are more story driven, but they all fit into the ruleset.

Assisted rolls do need some examining.  I have an idea for that, too, if you'd like to head over to the Earthdawn forums on RedBrick instead of cluttering up these (or we could just message each other).
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: Kot on <11-18-10/1416:25>
Heh. That'd be better. Let's get back to the Last Knight of the Crimson Spire. Which is a legend in Earthdawn already. :P
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: The Laughing Man on <11-19-10/2024:23>
So I've been running a game for a while now. After checking out the Ancient files website I've become really interested in the whole metaplot thing involving Harlequin and the Horrors.

I'm running what is a now a 3 year campaign and my game is at the point where most real threats end up being on the epic scale. So I figured this is perfect for some end game type stuff, to fill in parts where my own convoluted, rediculously epic ending of course, leaves off.  :D

Problem is outside of 4th edition my knowledge on books is very dim. Which books or supplementals should I check out to find good info on the metaplot and Harlequin?
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: FastJack on <11-19-10/2303:52>
Harlequinn (http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=2216&products_id=2063&it=1&filters=0_0_0_1700&manufacturers_id=2216) is the old campaign book that starts it all, giving you the idea that H is a baad mutha- "SHUT YO' MOUTH!"

Just talkin' 'bout Harlequinn...

After that, try to get a copy of Harlequinn's Back (http://www.amazon.com/Harlequins-Back-Shadowrun-Tom-Dowd/dp/B000PUUKO6) that details his history with the Horrors. He also pops up in Worlds Without End (http://www.amazon.com/Worlds-without-End-Shadowrun-18/dp/0451453719), House of the Sun (http://www.battlecorps.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=28_222&products_id=2475), and Beyond the Pale (http://www.amazon.com/Shadowrun-30-Beyond-Dragon-Heart/dp/0451456742).
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: Longshot23 on <11-24-10/0549:57>
Harlequinn (http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=2216&products_id=2063&it=1&filters=0_0_0_1700&manufacturers_id=2216) is the old campaign book that starts it all, giving you the idea that H is a baad mutha- "SHUT YO' MOUTH!"

Just talkin' 'bout Harlequinn...

After that, try to get a copy of Harlequinn's Back (http://www.amazon.com/Harlequins-Back-Shadowrun-Tom-Dowd/dp/B000PUUKO6) that details his history with the Horrors. He also pops up in Worlds Without End (http://www.amazon.com/Worlds-without-End-Shadowrun-18/dp/0451453719), House of the Sun (http://www.battlecorps.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=28_222&products_id=2475), and Beyond the Pale (http://www.amazon.com/Shadowrun-30-Beyond-Dragon-Heart/dp/0451456742).

And those are just the ones he's identified in.  Hands up anyone who doesn't think he uses disguises and Masking . . .
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: Doc Chaos on <11-24-10/0701:29>
And for everyone who does raise their hands, I've got some nice swampland to sell you...
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: Dead Monky on <11-24-10/1420:24>
And I'll throw in a "non-functional" grenade for free.   ;D
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: FastJack on <11-24-10/2139:23>
Harlequinn (http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=2216&products_id=2063&it=1&filters=0_0_0_1700&manufacturers_id=2216) is the old campaign book that starts it all, giving you the idea that H is a baad mutha- "SHUT YO' MOUTH!"

Just talkin' 'bout Harlequinn...

After that, try to get a copy of Harlequinn's Back (http://www.amazon.com/Harlequins-Back-Shadowrun-Tom-Dowd/dp/B000PUUKO6) that details his history with the Horrors. He also pops up in Worlds Without End (http://www.amazon.com/Worlds-without-End-Shadowrun-18/dp/0451453719), House of the Sun (http://www.battlecorps.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=28_222&products_id=2475), and Beyond the Pale (http://www.amazon.com/Shadowrun-30-Beyond-Dragon-Heart/dp/0451456742).
ANNNNNND...

They just released a PDF of Harlequinn's Back (http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product_info.php?products_id=86173{1}1). ;D

Plus, Mission #12: Elevator Ride to Hell (http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product_info.php?products_id=86171{1}1) has been released.
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: Longshot23 on <11-24-10/2227:26>
Harlequinn (http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=2216&products_id=2063&it=1&filters=0_0_0_1700&manufacturers_id=2216) is the old campaign book that starts it all, giving you the idea that H is a baad mutha- "SHUT YO' MOUTH!"

Just talkin' 'bout Harlequinn...

After that, try to get a copy of Harlequinn's Back (http://www.amazon.com/Harlequins-Back-Shadowrun-Tom-Dowd/dp/B000PUUKO6) that details his history with the Horrors. He also pops up in Worlds Without End (http://www.amazon.com/Worlds-without-End-Shadowrun-18/dp/0451453719), House of the Sun (http://www.battlecorps.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=28_222&products_id=2475), and Beyond the Pale (http://www.amazon.com/Shadowrun-30-Beyond-Dragon-Heart/dp/0451456742).
ANNNNNND...

They just released a PDF of Harlequinn's Back (http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product_info.php?products_id=86173{1}1). ;D

Plus, Mission #12: Elevator Ride to Hell (http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product_info.php?products_id=86171{1}1) has been released.

Finally . . . Pity Harlequin's Back is pretty much fixed in time (as is Harlequin, for that matter) - both supposed to take place in the 2050s.

Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: FastJack on <11-24-10/2319:09>
Doesn't mean you can't use 4E rules to have your runner's go through them. Hell, you could then have them as older runners (or even their kids) running through Dawn of the Artifacts. ;)
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: Longshot23 on <11-25-10/0524:03>
Doesn't mean you can't use 4E rules to have your runner's go through them. Hell, you could then have them as older runners (or even their kids) running through Dawn of the Artifacts. ;)

Harlequin The Next Generation?  ::)

Waaaaaaiiiiiiit a minute . . . .
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: Nomad Zophiel on <11-26-10/2220:35>
Doesn't mean you can't use 4E rules to have your runner's go through them. Hell, you could then have them as older runners (or even their kids) running through Dawn of the Artifacts. ;)

Or just have a party of elves. The difference between 20 and 40 years old doesn't mean much. Regular Elves can live for centuries. Immortal Elves aren't necessarily different from a game system perspective. I gather there's a difference between elves and Immortal Elves but being unfamiliar with ED I don't know the specifics. No need for Frosty to be the only IE born in the Sixth Age.
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: Kot on <11-27-10/0644:31>
No need for Frosty to be the only IE born in the Sixth Age.
Fifth? I think she was born before the Awakening.
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: FastJack on <11-27-10/1929:44>
Frosty was born in the 30's, since she was only in her twenties when she apprenticed to Caimbueul Har’lea’quinn at the end of the original Harlequin campaign.

Also, Lady Brane Deigh is also a "new" immortal elf in the sixth age, having come by her immortality by the rites of the Elven Queen.
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: Nomad Zophiel on <11-27-10/2323:25>
OK, Jack, so aside from the fact that IE's never age, is there any difference between them and normal elves? And how can they tell, anyway? Do they all get the "spot other immortal" skill?
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: Longshot23 on <11-28-10/0114:55>
OK, Jack, so aside from the fact that IE's never age, is there any difference between them and normal elves? And how can they tell, anyway? Do they all get the "spot other immortal" skill?

(throwing in my 2c worth before FJ)

There may actually be a test.  In the Aztlan S/B pg 64, when Ding Ramos was profiled, Wordsmyth (Ehran the Scribe) said he didn't believe the right evaluations had ever been carried out.  I don't think he was talking whether or not Ramos was Awakened, since that test is relatively well-known.
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: Critias on <11-28-10/1442:40>
OK, Jack, so aside from the fact that IE's never age, is there any difference between them and normal elves? And how can they tell, anyway? Do they all get the "spot other immortal" skill?
I think they've all officially got Immunity (Aging) and Immunity (Disease), as far as game stats go. 

More importantly, most of them recognize each other -- the "big name" Immortal Elves, at least -- because they've been sniping at each other, flirting with each other, fighting alongside each other, dueling against each other, working together with each other, working against each other, and generally bickering and bantering, for thousands of years

And they all know Frosty (now) because of her affiliations, who's mentoring her, and that sort of thing.  The Immortal Elves that exist, just like the Dragons that exist, are in a pretty exclusive club together, and while there might also be an Assensing aspect to it (where they recognize the magical potential someone's got, or can just tell there's something "off" about their aura)...I think they mostly spot each other just by knowing each other so very, very, well.
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: FastJack on <11-28-10/1511:52>
I think it also shows up on an assensing test, but you have to know what you're looking for. And those that know aren't a sharing group...
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: Kot on <11-28-10/1546:24>
Big D was, but there's that Immortal Elves vs Dragons thing, and i'm sure as hell he didn't want to antagonize them, as he was probably the most open to peace offerings. I still think that whole deal was as close to a 'borrowed lawnmover feud' as possible. And their egos didn't help...
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: Bradd on <11-29-10/1844:07>
And they all know Frosty (now) because of her affiliations, who's mentoring her, and that sort of thing.

If you believe Ghostwalker and Malcolm Carella, he's not just "mentoring" her.

Talking to Carella was fun, because it's the first time the PCs have seen anybody seriously bad-mouth Jane or her allies. For the most part, I've played up Jane as a helpful role model with a bit of a temper. The players like that she helps out, stays out of their way, and occasionally flips out and kills bad guys.
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: Kot on <11-30-10/0512:11>
I was thiking, and decided to put some kind of Harlequin-inspired plot element, as my players will have a campaign with Earthdawn ties and challenges on their hands. No Harlequin himself, but maybe a post or two, from the Jester.
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: Gideon on <12-05-10/1546:11>
Long 1st ed Earthdawn gamemaster here - my understanding of the Immortal Elves in earthdawn at least was that they were the elven children of one of the Great Dragons.  There is a document released by FASA as they desolved, that had rules and hints on this, called Dragons.  In this each elf gained a +1 to Willpower (actual and potential), gained Astral Perception/Sight and one "draconian" trait.  Pointed Ears, slit pupils, etc.

The Exiled One among the Great dragons is a repeat practitioner of breeding metahuman/dragon hybrids.

So this may not be true in SR, I could have miss read things, but this means that a genetic test may reveal Draconian DNA, as well as the ability to demonstrate a draconian trait or aspect to their aura.  Also determining your paternity/maternity among the living IEs may be all they are "testing"
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: MJBurrage on <12-05-10/1819:48>
Immortal elves have Immunity to Age, Disease, Pathogens, & Poisons.

As best as I can recall, Shadowrun has never suggested that immortal elves have inherently better attributes. Rather it made clear that millennia of earning karma has made them world class masters of any skill they have focused on.

As I recall, every one of them is magically active, so add defenses from magic that have not even been relearned by the Sixth World yet.
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: Kot on <12-06-10/0334:20>
As for the 'children of Great Dragons' - not so much. More like creations and sentient guardians, that supposedly were elven ancestors. And Outcast (Denairastas) was exiled for creating them, as it was forbidden. He probably was exiled along with his creations, and those were the core of the Danairastas clan of Iopos.
As for the Dragons book, it was a lot more than that. What you're describing are probably Drakes - immortal elves were just creations, they weren't related.
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: raggedhalo on <12-06-10/0511:44>
As best as I can recall, Shadowrun has never suggested that immortal elves have inherently better attributes. Rather it made clear that millennia of earning karma has made them world class masters of any skill they have focused on.

Harlequin has an Essence score of 8 (according to Harlequin's Back) - they mention it because the Treat and Heal spells in SR2 based their Target Number on your Essence score.
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: Kot on <12-06-10/0555:27>
It would fit, as he has a stronger-than-usual pattern.
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: Longshot23 on <12-06-10/1010:02>
As best as I can recall, Shadowrun has never suggested that immortal elves have inherently better attributes. Rather it made clear that millennia of earning karma has made them world class masters of any skill they have focused on.

Harlequin has an Essence score of 8 (according to Harlequin's Back) - they mention it because the Treat and Heal spells in SR2 based their Target Number on your Essence score.

That seems odd - I could understand him having Magic 8 (as a minimum, given his initiation), but not Essence 8.  Then again, it's been years since I read up on SR2.
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: MK Ultra on <12-07-10/0514:32>
SR1/2 were a lot more flexible about essence ratings. Shapeshifters also had essence 8 back then. Many critters had essence below 6 (i.e. Devilrats would have 3 or 4 iirc). In SR 3 & 4 he would most likely be statted with 6.

Immortal elves where created by the dragons, not sure if they have any dragon blood, though. They would have the Immunities as stated by MJBurrage.

The guidelines mentioned above (as I recall it was Int +1, Wil +1, Astral Sight, Nightvision and natural Spellcaster (not sure what that meant in ED) + some cosmetic dragon trait like eyes, horns or scales on some bodypart) In the ED Dragons sb were for Dragonkin - any metahumans decended from a true dragon in metahuman form. The traits diluted with each generation, which is why the Denairastas Clan was so incestuous and the Outcast chipped in some genes now and then. But those are destinct from both immortal elves and from drakes.
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: Nomad Zophiel on <12-07-10/0518:34>
Which leads me to new super-old bastard idea number 2. Dragon-blood vampire.  ;D
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: raggedhalo on <12-07-10/0519:54>
That seems odd - I could understand him having Magic 8 (as a minimum, given his initiation), but not Essence 8.  Then again, it's been years since I read up on SR2.

I always understood it to be because he was born in a time of much higher mana, and so everyone back then would have had Essence 8.  Just most of them aren't immortal...

I don't have my SR2 books to hand, but I don't remember shapeshifters having Essence 8.
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: Kot on <12-07-10/0612:11>
In the ED Dragons sb were for Dragonkin - any metahumans descended from a true dragon in metahuman form.
And now look again how many young people got something from Dunkelzahn's Will without any appaernt reason... :P
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: Nomad Zophiel on <12-07-10/1809:22>
There's actually a metagame story behind that. Most of the random tokens of esteem were for winners of a contest. People sent in their votes after Super Tuesday came out. One voter for each candidate got a prize, the whole SR line in print or something  like that. Each of the people in the will who get an unnamed token for no obvious reason are those winners.
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: FastJack on <12-07-10/1823:30>
The prize wasn't quite that grand. I don't have details, but according to Ancient File's Annotated Will (http://ancientfiles.dumpshock.com/Dunk_Will.htm), they were stuff like a stock certificate in a SR corporation or something similar.
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: Nomad Zophiel on <12-08-10/0407:46>
Well, I'd still buy that for a dollar. Hell, I wouldn't mind a Dunklezahn in '57 pin.
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: Longshot23 on <12-08-10/0520:18>
Well, I'd still buy that for a dollar. Hell, I wouldn't mind a Dunklezahn in '57 pin.

Sure as frag beats a 'Brackhaven in '76' pin . . .
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: Kot on <12-08-10/0708:20>
I'd vote for Harlequin. :P
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: FastJack on <12-08-10/0830:25>
I'd vote for Harlequin. :P
I wonder how many write-in votes he gets each year?
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: Doc Chaos on <12-08-10/1013:54>
Probably not that many, since most of the people who know (of) him probably either hate him or want him outright dead ;)
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: Kot on <12-08-10/1018:52>
No, no, no... I'd really vote on him. We had local government elections just now in Poland. And on the lowest level (the equivalent of a mayor, and city council) i didn't really have any choice. Harlequin would be an interesting local official. :P
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: Doc Chaos on <12-09-10/0045:12>
Uhm... coming to think of it like that... when I look at german political parties...

QUINN! GET YOUR ASS OVER HERE!!!
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: Semerkhet on <12-16-10/1307:58>
If you believe Ghostwalker and Malcolm Carella, he's not just "mentoring" her.

Talking to Carella was fun, because it's the first time the PCs have seen anybody seriously bad-mouth Jane or her allies. For the most part, I've played up Jane as a helpful role model with a bit of a temper. The players like that she helps out, stays out of their way, and occasionally flips out and kills bad guys.

I enjoyed GM'ing this moment of "Oh shit, who are we really working for?"  I've personally removed most of the "Jane as Deus Ex" moments from the DotA series.  I've also given the players the impression that Jane is moderately more powerful than them, but not too powerful.  Without Jane constantly upstaging them, the team actually likes her.  

A few spoilery thoughts: (edit: what, no spoiler tags in this forum?)
Spoilers Ahead


[spoiler]In the third installment there is a poorly explained reason why she is limiting her own magical powers.  I let the players guess among themselves why she's wearing a personal mana void amulet.  They figure it is to avoid the curse associated with acquiring the Sextant.

All this talk of Harlequin v.s. Ehran reminded me of a big misconception I had running DotA.  The intro fiction to Dawn, as has been mentioned, depicts a conversation between Harlequin and Ehran wherein Ehran asks if Harlequin would ask Jane to look into the stolen Sextant issue.  Given the, AFAIK, still secret relationship between Ehran and Jane Foster I just assumed that Harlequin would leave Ehran's involvement out of it when asking Jane to do the work.  So in the final scene of Dawn it is mentioned that Jane gets into the limo with a visibly "middle-aged" but unnamed elf, I just assumed that was Harlequin.  Nothing that happened in Midnight disabused me of that notion.  Not until Darkest Hour, when it suddenly becomes apparent to me that the authors intended all along that it was Ehran directly working with Jane.  Reading Bobby Derie's draft for the follow-up adventures to DotA just confirms that, as Harlequin was supposed to be more directly involved in the follow-up.  Anyway, I'm stuck with the players in my game working for Jane and a mysterious elf who introduced himself as Caimbuel and does not wear clown make-up. [/spoiler]
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: Kot on <12-16-10/1356:32>
Hey! You should've used Big Red Letters to warn about spoilers. Those tags don't work here. Or just use this image:
(http://d3uwin5q170wpc.cloudfront.net/photo/58165_460.jpg)
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: Semerkhet on <12-16-10/1359:10>
Hey! You should've used Big Red Letters to warn about spoilers. Those tags don't work here. Or just use this image:


Sorry, first time posting on these forums and I was unaware that the spoiler tags don't work here.  Post edited to add big red letters.
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: Kot on <12-16-10/1417:00>
Or you can always use small letters in a quote. That'd work fine. :)
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: FastJack on <12-16-10/1427:46>
Well, in your defense, you could always have Ehran use Caimbuel  as an alias/joke on Harlequin. ;)
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: Fizzygoo on <12-16-10/1633:42>
@Fastjack...um, little "weird" though...Daddy using by bf's name. [Insert trideo talk show E! style about how we all know that Ms. Foster and Harlequin are totally seeing each other complete with beach bikini pics of them making out and a sworn affidavit from the Sasquatch gardener. "chirp chirp, growll, grrrr," says the Sasquatch. "Oh so that's what Harlequin is like in the bedroom, I see," says Joan Rivers (of course she's still alive, plastics the gift that keeps on giving).]
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: FastJack on <12-16-10/1635:47>
Granted, there's nothing that says they aren't a couple, but there's also nothing that says they are anything more than Master/Apprentice.
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: Fizzygoo on <12-16-10/1728:35>
[begin French accent] But we are talking about love, no? The long hours spent together, master and apprentice, entangled in the raw emotional stew of the astral together. But of course they are lovers.[end French accent]

Yup, never seen anything official myself either. But a woman's womb is often a political playground. Queen Elizabeth I understood that quite well. Harlequin would have some interesting leverage (at the very lest something would change) if he was to become the father of Erhan's grandson/daughter. The thought's probably crossed all three of their minds...whether they liked the thought or not.
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: Bradd on <12-16-10/2038:18>
Granted, there's nothing that says they aren't a couple, but there's also nothing that says they are anything more than Master/Apprentice.

Ghostwalker and Malcolm Carella both seem to think they're a couple, and they're both at least somewhat credible.
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: Nomad Zophiel on <12-16-10/2049:25>
OK, granted the dating pool of Immortal Elves is small if they want to stay within their subspecies but when you've got a guy who measures his age in Ages and a woman whose age is double digits it gives a new meaning to robbing the cradle.
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: FastJack on <12-16-10/2132:09>
It's definitely one of those GM's call types of issues.
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: Fizzygoo on <12-16-10/2241:21>
Hehe, according the write up in Ancient Files on Dragons and Immortals http://ancientfiles.dumpshock.com/Immortals.htm#41 (http://ancientfiles.dumpshock.com/Immortals.htm#41)

Quote
Harlequin lives with Jane Foster in the Chateau d'If; an historic castle on an isle he owns in France.

Then, in Tom Dowd's Wyrm Talk http://pl.shadowrun.wikia.com/wiki/Wyrm_Talk_%28Tom_Dowd%29 (http://pl.shadowrun.wikia.com/wiki/Wyrm_Talk_%28Tom_Dowd%29)

Quote
“Um, I don’t know what dragons are into,” I said, “but I figure you [Harlequin] might want to put some clothes on before he comes in.”

...though there is no confirmation that the narrator is Foster that I could tell...though the big D says to her at the end, "“It has been a pleasure meeting you, my lady,” he said. “You do your heritage proud.”"

And then in Dowd's Post Mortem http://pl.shadowrun.wikia.com/wiki/Post_Mortem (http://pl.shadowrun.wikia.com/wiki/Post_Mortem)
There is this exchange between Erhan and Harlequin;

Quote
“So, since we are here,” the dwarf [Erhan in disguise] finally asks, keeping his tone as neutral as he can, “how is my daughter?”

The appearance of the dark skinned ork [Harlequin in disguise] shifts without warning, slipping into a smear of color and shape as his eyes widen slightly in surprise. He turns his head very slowly as he regains his composure. “Excuse me?”

A slight grin appears barely visible beneath the other’s matted white hair. “Of course I knew, you twit. I am not as completely self absorbed as you like to believe.”

Still all conjecture and innuendo...but :)

Quote
Fizzygoo doesn't know whether to laugh or cry at researching the possible love affair between to elves, hehe
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: FastJack on <12-16-10/2314:12>
A) Masters and apprentices of old lived together until the Master felt the pupil was learned enough to go on their own. He also took to protecting her from others that would like to have a bargaining chip against Ehran (and liked having the bargaining chip himself).

B) Harlequin is like the Elvis of the Sixth World. He shoots out TVs while eating PBJ&Banana sandwiches in the nude. And yes, that was Foster.

C) That only implies that Ehran has figured out that Harlequin's apprentice is his daughter (which Harlequin thought he was keeping secret from the elf per Harlequin, Harlequin's back and the Immortals discussion from Aztlan sourcebook).

Am I saying that they weren't romantically involved? Not at all, but the impression *I* get from all the sources they have appeared in is that they aren't. My opinion is that Harlequin takes his position as her instructor very seriously and would not cross that line being teacher/lover.
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: Bradd on <12-16-10/2357:46>
Ancient societies sometimes blur the lines between teachers and lovers, y'know. ;)
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: Nomad Zophiel on <12-17-10/0322:40>
Plato aside, I just keep thinking the line here is "maybe when you're older, precious. Get a thousand years or two under your belt and you might be mature enough for me."

I'm sure little Janey Foster's cute and all and having a mentor like Harlequin puts her in the ranks of the best Prime Runners. She may be one of the best in her league, but her league is maybe 50 years old. Harlequin's league includes elves and dragons who have first hand experience with Horrors scouring the world at least once. Compared to that, Frosty is a talented elementary shcool kid.
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: Bradd on <12-17-10/0453:46>
I somehow doubt that Harlequin chooses his bed partners solely according to their magical skills. ;D

But the most compelling evidence I've seen is that Ghostwalker accuses Jane of being as “impertinent as her mate.” If Ghostwalker knows Harlequin half as well as his brother did, I think he's onto something!
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: FastJack on <12-17-10/0859:30>
I somehow doubt that Harlequin chooses his bed partners solely according to their magical skills. ;D

But the most compelling evidence I've seen is that Ghostwalker accuses Jane of being as “impertinent as her mate.” If Ghostwalker knows Harlequin half as well as his brother did, I think he's onto something!
I don't recall that, where did he say that? Also, consider that Dragons may have a MUCH different outlook regarding relationships.
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: Prime Mover on <12-17-10/1010:53>
B) Harlequin is like the Elvis of the Sixth World. He shoots out TVs while eating PBJ&Banana sandwiches in the nude. And yes, that was Foster.

I always played H as more of a "Crow" figure then a burn out country singer.  Intelligent, confident, impulsive and dark humored.
The pressure of age and knowledge weight heavy on his mind his twisted sense of humor is his coping mechanism.
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: Nomad Zophiel on <12-17-10/2008:38>
I somehow doubt that Harlequin chooses his bed partners solely according to their magical skills. ;D

Who said anything about magic skills? Ask anyone in their mid-30's what its like to try and date someone fresh out of high school. Now multiply that difference by about 1,000. Even mentoring would be a pain in the ass. Assuming you haven't been in college for a few years imagine trying to teach a kid geometry from memory. Either you've so internalized parts of it that you forget that anyone might not know it or you've moved so far past certain parts that you can function just fine but can't explain the underlying steps anymore. Multiply by 1,000. That's any Fourth Age IE trying to teach any Sixth Age mage.
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: Bradd on <12-17-10/2121:38>
@FastJack: Ghostwalker comments on their relationship in DotA: Midnight, and in Darkest Hour somebody talks about them being a couple, possibly with firsthand knowledge.
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: FastJack on <12-18-10/0313:16>
Ahhh... that makes sense then. I have not read any of DotA in depth, because I'm hoping to play/run them in the future and so have put them on the pile, while concentrating on the sourcebooks instead.

Now I see that they have cleared up the relationship quite a bit since Harlequin's Back, when it remained vague and said that Jane wasn't sure what she was to make of their relationship.
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: Kot on <12-18-10/0527:05>
That's not much of a deal. Frosty is an adult woman. And despite his age, Harlequin is still childish, like a teenager (or at lest he acts that way).
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: Angelone on <12-18-10/1212:58>
B) Harlequin is like the Elvis of the Sixth World. He shoots out TVs while eating PBJ&Banana sandwiches in the nude. And yes, that was Foster.

Elf-is, He's the Elfis of the 6th world. ;) *Sigh* Reduced to bad puns... I've been working too much lately.
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: raggedhalo on <12-20-10/0647:14>
She may be one of the best in her league, but her league is maybe 50 years old.

She was about 18 in the first Harlequin adventure, which was set (IIRC) in 2050 - making her just 40 in 2072...
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: Semerkhet on <12-20-10/1526:03>
That's not much of a deal. Frosty is an adult woman. And despite his age, Harlequin is still childish, like a teenager (or at lest he acts that way).
I figure that if Harlequin is still nominally sane after living for thousands of years he has obviously developed coping mechanisms.  Coping mechanisms that would likely enable him to have a romantic relationship with a woman 1% of his age.


The following is all more or less spoiler-ific regarding DotA.


I agree that the implication from those two lines in DotA 2 & 3 is that Harlequin and Jane Foster are romantically involved, which is totally immaterial from the point of view of my particular group of players.  Having completed all three DotA episodes and having  heard the rather negative character reference for Jane and Harlequin given by Malcom Carella, the major concern of my players is deciding whether or not to take the inevitable next job, or to take the job and then betray their employer.  At the end of the last job they made it clear to Ms. Foster that if they were to continue the, so far, lucrative and successful business relationship they would need to be better informed of the overall goals and ramifications of the project being undertaken.  I mean, it doesn't take a genius to start putting the pieces together from the three missions so far and start making guesses about where it's heading.  I played up the unease by extemporizing some dialogue by Georgy Abelev of the APEP Consortium in which he warned the characters to evaluate what they were doing and decide if their current employer is the one they want to get his hands on the Keys.  The fun part being that Abelev spoke to them as if they'd already been informed of the big picture by Jane or Harlequin.  Since they hadn't been, Abelev's words just added to the feeling of being kept in the dark.  Being kept in the dark is par for the course in shadowrunning but when the stakes start rising as high as they do in DotA, strict professionalism can quickly go out the window.
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: Bradd on <12-20-10/1836:46>
More spoilers.

Huh, that's a nice touch. I may need to use that. My group doesn't like Abolev (left him for dead in DotA1), but they might take him seriously if he approached them with a conciliatory attitude. They're already a little puzzled about Samriel's involvement in SotA2, and even though they enjoyed working with him, they still don't trust him. I'm honestly a little surprised that they trust Jane so much, given how they always end up in feral cities, and their first Johnson (from On the Run) totally screwed them. I guess it's because she acts like a hotheaded hero, much like their typical D&D PCs.
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: dodger on <04-01-11/2016:13>
Holy Crap! This thread got looooong.  :o
Thank you all for the input. I have been really busy for a while and, alas I haven't been able to visit the forums until today.
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: Ancient History on <04-05-11/2129:53>
For what it's worth, I was there when what became the Dawn of the Artifacts was being drafted, and I ended up writing the blueprint for the (now dropped) sequel, Harlequin's Gambit (http://www.box.net/shared/ih8sp8pm21). I was signed up to write half the book, and we were in first drafts when I left. You can read the drafts online here:
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: Abstruse on <04-05-11/2144:07>
For what it's worth, I was there when what became the Dawn of the Artifacts was being drafted, and I ended up writing the blueprint for the (now dropped) sequel, Harlequin's Gambit (http://www.box.net/shared/ih8sp8pm21). I was signed up to write half the book, and we were in first drafts when I left. You can read the drafts online here:
  • Ch. 2 London Calling (http://www.box.net/shared/14j74jt0mq)
  • Ch. 4 End of Journey (http://www.box.net/shared/l52c5gxgm9)
  • Cast of Shadows (http://www.box.net/shared/podudgz65a)
Craaaaap, AH is here...now I can't pretend to be the know-it-all when it comes to Shadowrun metaplot :(
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: trea5on on <07-02-11/1426:04>
i think there's a billion storylines involving harlequin that could be put to ink, and most, if not all, be pretty damn entertaining.
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: dodger on <07-12-11/1151:38>
I agree that there could be MANY stories/ adventures about H, and they would b
E a good read. I hope that he gets some love in Artifacts unbound as even though I got started in Shadowrun before ED was around and loved it, it's the far-reaching metaplot that keeps me addicted to the game.

~Dodger
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: CanRay on <07-12-11/1221:17>
i think there's a billion storylines involving harlequin that could be put to ink, and most, if not all, be pretty damn entertaining.
There's a billion stores in the naked city, and none of them even remotely interesting as the multiple untold stories of the naked immortal elf.   ;D
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: Bull on <07-12-11/1937:19>
A billion stores?  Hrmm...  That'd be cool.  You could buy ANYTHING if you found the right store then.  Unless they're all Wal-Mart or something.
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: CanRay on <07-12-11/1945:24>
Everything you could want...  Except clothes.  It's the naked city after all.

Lots of options for shoes and boots, however.
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: dodger on <07-12-11/2351:28>
......naked.........Harlequin........room.......spinning form the mental image.............<BARF!!>

I think this thread has been officially been "Deep Wanged" ;)

~Dodger
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: CanRay on <07-13-11/1254:26>
*Evil Grin*  Slot and run, Chummer.
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: Sichr on <07-14-11/0755:06>
Shadowrun the Fourth Age -

Where your characters are outcasts, living iand working in the pseudo-medieval Emerald City. Through no fault of their own they are on the outside of society and are forced to take illegal jobs from various merchant princes, dragons and elven lords competing for scarce resources with no concern for the damage they are doing to the manasphere or the harm they may cause the common man. An entire subcaste of outcasts merchants known as Fixers set up the meetings between these Runners (so called because they are on the run from the law) with repsresentatives of the merchants known as Sir Johnson (because Johnson is still a generic name in the Fourth Age). Runners accept payment only in the anonymous currency of gold while constantly trying to stay off the radar of various surveillance magics and the Knights Errant.

Im going to create temporarily Alchera over Seattle with this setting. I just love the idea. :D
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: Sichr on <07-14-11/0851:39>

Also, a character can elect to "push" their abilities by sacrificing some strain (small amount of damage) to get a +3 bonus to any kind of test.  If they really need something to work they can take a blood wound, physically harming themselves and getting a Wound (a longer term penalty that they suffer after the test), in order to get a +7 bonus to a single test.


I see where this is comming from: Kurt Cobain putting a bullet through his head to became legend...

(appology to fans)
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: Sichr on <07-14-11/0946:48>
OK, Jack, so aside from the fact that IE's never age, is there any difference between them and normal elves? And how can they tell, anyway? Do they all get the "spot other immortal" skill?
I think they've all officially got Immunity (Aging) and Immunity (Disease), as far as game stats go. 


Well Chuck Norris not only posess both qualities, but  in addition his tears even heal cancer, too bad he never cried...does it mean he is ...oh god...he is herrrrrargh
.
.
.
Nobody mess with Chuck!!!
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: Lacynth40 on <07-26-11/2037:29>
If you want, you can mail it to me, I have some webspace I can host it on.

Also, it is more detailed than list on Dumpshock (http://ancientfiles.dumpshock.com/Immortals.htm)?

Hey, 'Jack, sorry for the Thread Necromancy here, but when I clicked the link, I got a 404 - Node Not Found error. Anywhere to find that list you two were talking about?
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: FastJack on <07-26-11/2331:08>
If you want, you can mail it to me, I have some webspace I can host it on.

Also, it is more detailed than list on Dumpshock (http://ancientfiles.dumpshock.com/Immortals.htm)?

Hey, 'Jack, sorry for the Thread Necromancy here, but when I clicked the link, I got a 404 - Node Not Found error. Anywhere to find that list you two were talking about?
Yeah, since I posted that link, it's been taken down.

But, do not worry, my boy Sherman! We have the Wayback Machine:  Time Travel to 2009! (http://web.archive.org/web/20090530062653/http://ancientfiles.dumpshock.com/Immortals.htm)
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: Lacynth40 on <07-27-11/0103:48>
I lurve the Wayback Machine....
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: CanRay on <07-27-11/0116:46>
*Looks around*  Where's Peabody and Sherman?
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: beowulf_of_wa on <08-16-11/0126:52>
Hey! You should've used Big Red Letters to warn about spoilers. Those tags don't work here. Or just use this image:
(http://d3uwin5q170wpc.cloudfront.net/photo/58165_460.jpg)

major spoiler? too bad the "major" is wearing captains bars.
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: bigity on <08-17-11/1434:18>
Someone obviously thought rank goes onto the name tag.

He is probably promoted by now, I bet there is another pic out there somewhere :)
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: beowulf_of_wa on <08-17-11/2239:36>
so he's Captain M Spoiler who deployed with the 101st Brigade, HQ (Finance)

poor bastard. what a crappy last name.
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: CanRay on <08-17-11/2247:22>
Not as bad as Mike Harris, the Curler.  He never did figure out why so many Ontarians hated him.
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: The_Gun_Nut on <08-18-11/0030:24>
Or the poor fellow who went through Navy boot camp around the same time as I.

Seaman Sample.
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: bigity on <08-18-11/1654:35>
My last name is Butt.  My roomie in basic, his last name was Morehead.

The door said Butt and Morehead on it.

I think Spoiler is an ok name, but Seaman Sample, that poor bastard has my sympathy.
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: CanRay on <08-18-11/1656:00>
Especially after Seaman Sample gets promoted a few times and becomes Leading Seaman Sample.  :P
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: The_Gun_Nut on <08-19-11/0015:37>
There is no "Leading Seaman" in the U.S. Navy rank system.

Seaman Recruit.

Seaman Apprentice.

Seaman.

None of those worked terribly well with his name. :P
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: CanRay on <08-19-11/0017:47>
Ah, right.  Remembering the Canadian Naval Ranks.

BTW:  About to have a separated military again!
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: beowulf_of_wa on <08-19-11/0028:43>
and then there are the older terms, able seaman and deck seaman or deckhand
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: Krypter on <09-18-11/2219:39>
For what it's worth, I was there when what became the Dawn of the Artifacts was being drafted, and I ended up writing the blueprint for the (now dropped) sequel, Harlequin's Gambit (http://www.box.net/shared/ih8sp8pm21). I was signed up to write half the book, and we were in first drafts when I left. You can read the drafts online here:
  • Ch. 2 London Calling (http://www.box.net/shared/14j74jt0mq)
  • Ch. 4 End of Journey (http://www.box.net/shared/l52c5gxgm9)
  • Cast of Shadows (http://www.box.net/shared/podudgz65a)
I ran Harlequin several times, back in the day, though I modified it heavily too. It's one of my most beloved SR adventures.

Thanks for the links, old dawg.
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: Prime Mover on <09-20-11/1254:36>
Good times, good times.  Fondly remember the first Harlequin adventure a kicking off point for a nearly decade long campaign.  Harlequin 2 wasn't as much of a success due to a few poorly fleshed out scenes and took some work to kick it into shape.  But still a fave.  From the first time I heard Gambit mentioned I was hooked, when the chapter roughs showed up I knew we lost what was shaping up to be a great third chapter in what really deserved to be a trilogy. 

Now....  we've lost Harlequins Gambit and Advanced Magic and get Artifacts Unbound a loose collection of info for putting together a flashy end for DotA.  I'm not usually very critical but for this book I expect I will be.  I'll try to reserve judgement but some info that's been discussed on other sites does not bode well in my opinion.
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: FastJack on <09-20-11/1329:38>
Good times, good times.  Fondly remember the first Harlequin adventure a kicking off point for a nearly decade long campaign.  Harlequin 2 wasn't as much of a success due to a few poorly fleshed out scenes and took some work to kick it into shape.  But still a fave.  From the first time I heard Gambit mentioned I was hooked, when the chapter roughs showed up I knew we lost what was shaping up to be a great third chapter in what really deserved to be a trilogy. 

Now....  we've lost Harlequins Gambit and Advanced Magic and get Artifacts Unbound a loose collection of info for putting together a flashy end for DotA.  I'm not usually very critical but for this book I expect I will be.  I'll try to reserve judgement but some info that's been discussed on other sites does not bode well in my opinion.
Just remember, things being discussed on other sites usually aren't "in the know" to current projects.
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: Prime Mover on <09-20-11/1528:03>
No but they've been spot on for the better part of the last year or so.
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: Prime Mover on <09-20-11/1537:28>
Don't get me wrong not all of the recent criticism has been deserved but the general outlines have followed through as discussed.  Theres a reference to AU as being akin to dragonball Z.  I guess their track record has forced me to be concerned for a line and a plot I've looked so forward too.  I'll reserve judgement till I see the finished project but I think my concerns are valid.
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: Crimsondude on <09-20-11/2000:16>
I'd also be wary of what anyone says about what it is or isn't because the only person who knows everything that is or isn't in AU is Jason.


I like Harlequin. He's in an interesting position if you look at where he stands among all of the pieces on the board right now.
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: CanRay on <09-20-11/2021:15>
Dancing between all of them, lifting their wallets to pay his bar bill?
Title: Re: Harlequin
Post by: bigity on <09-23-11/0932:42>
No but they've been spot on for the better part of the last year or so.

And then you have comments like this:

http://forums.shadowrun4.com/index.php?topic=254.msg60505#msg60505