[Shinobi Killfist]

For me I think this is a kind of big issue.

Mechanically there is no reason to play humans. Every other option is just flat out better. Not only is that a balance issue but it’s a setting issue. In a world where like 60% is supposed to be human 0% of the pcs being human seems weird unless that’s a story point which it isn’t in shadowrun

Am I seeing this wrong is their some hidden human perk. If not are there any ideas people have to fix this for their campaigns. Yes yes people might take them for role playing reasons.  But just don’t like I don’t want to fix things by GM fiat I don’t want to rely on good players to fix this either.

Two ideas I’ve had is give humans a floating +1 stat that they can pump their racial stat into. Or let humans but racial stats into any stat but they are still capped at 6.

[dezmont]

Honestly it feels like the meta priority going only to meta attributes kinda doesn't work great with how the priority table works anyway. Removing that rule both fixes humans and helps non-trolls out quite a bit. May need to rejigger things so humans get a bit more for their pick, maybe elves and orks too, but the problem with the meta table seems like it could be fixed by gently smacking it about.

[Lormyr]

I personally believe that all of the priority chart, metatype point uses, and what can and cannot be purchased at character generation is in need of serious re-evaluation. I think we all know that will not be happening though.

There are a number of House rules that can make all of that better, but I am not really as interested in making house rules as I am in seeing what catalyst does from here.

[Hephaestus]

Yeah, they pretty much set up humans to only be able to dump all their special attributes into Edge. And the only reason they exist at Priority C is so they can max magic/resonance and still start at Edge 4.

Mechanically, it means all human (D priority) mundanes (E priority) are starting with 5 Edge, and skills/attributes/resources are fighting for top slots.

More specifically, the seeming best build platform for human mundanes is:
A:       Resources (450,000¥)
B:       Attributes (16)
C:       Skills (20)
D:       Metatype (Human 5)
E:       Magic/Resonance (Mundane)

It allows for all the street sam/decker/rigger builds to start out super cybered up and with tons of toys, while still having skills to be useful across the board.

[FastJack]

I'm wondering if the design idea behind having the priority tables is just for tradition's sake. Like one of the first companion books will be "here's the game alternatives, and different ways for character generation!" I mean, we know the Life Modules are on their way, since they are in the 6E No Future rules.

I like how the game is getting streamlined, but even I have to admit, I don't know how much I'm going to try and convince my group to play until the Magic/Matrix/Cyber/Rigger/Life books are out. And that kinda makes me sad that it's just expected to have six books to properly play the game.

[Hobbes]

If you want a bit of Edge there isn't much downside for taking Human if your Metatype choice is E or D.  Lowlight/Thermal contacts are 500 Nuyen.  Built tough is a 4 Karma quality. 

If minor mechanical bonuses are all that matter than every PC will be a Troll. 

The mechanical difference between Metatypes in 6th is much less than in 5th.  IMO this is an improvement.  YMMV. 

[Jimmy_Pvish]

2 quick house rule I can think of.

1. Nerf option, every metatype had to paid karma for their free positive quality (not free now).

2.1 Big buff option, human start with 2 edge.
2.2 Small buff option, human can spend metatype point on anythings.

[Stainless Steel Devil Rat]

Humans are doing pretty good in 6we.

Any character that has metatype at C - E can be built either as any meta or as a human.

Do it.

Build some characters.  See the difference human vs metahuman makes when that's the only difference.

Yes, the metahumans can end up with dicepools 1-3 dice larger.  However, if they do, Humans end up with a marked advantage in Edge.  If Metahumans have Human-like Edge, then they'll end up with Human-like stats across the rest of the board, too.  "Human, but with Low Light vision" is not a very compelling elf or ork.  And as Hobbes pointed out, while the elf or ork doesn't need to spend resources on gaining low light vision, racial qualities are a bunch rather cheap capabilities to acquire or replicate.

[Xenon]

The mechanical advantage of playing human is the higher edge attribute.

Starting a combat/matrix/social confrontation with edge is mechanically really strong since it let you front-load your first actions and/or tests and/or initiative roll with edge boosts or edge actions. Starting a confrontation without edge or with limited edge mean you are often forced to wait until you build up edge or forced to only use weaker boosts or actions.

Ending a confrontation with a high edge attribute mean you can often walk out of the scene with a surplus of edge, ready to be used in the next scene. With a low edge attribute, overflow edge will be lost.

How powerful or weak this is in reality I think need to be tested and evaluated. A possible house rule if it seem to be in the weaker side could be to increase the maximum edge cap from 7 to 8 for humans. Another possible house rule could be that humans get to pick any two attributes as candidates for extra adjustment points during chargen.

But as I said, I think this needs to be evaluated first.

[Banshee]

I'm wondering if the design idea behind having the priority tables is just for tradition's sake. Like one of the first companion books will be "here's the game alternatives, and different ways for character generation!" I mean, we know the Life Modules are on their way, since they are in the 6E No Future rules.

I like how the game is getting streamlined, but even I have to admit, I don't know how much I'm going to try and convince my group to play until the Magic/Matrix/Cyber/Rigger/Life books are out. And that kinda makes me sad that it's just expected to have six books to properly play the game.

well the driving decisions behind going with the priority table was a combination of it being the SR classic but also space, it takes up less pages than point buy which was the only other real contender for CRB ... but yes point buy will be featured in the players splat book when it gets completed ... as well as some other options hopefully. I personally love the Life Module setup.

As for options to make humans have more significance, I proposed to allow them to spend SAP points on anything (so basically they just have one combined pool of attribute points)

[Hobbes]

Build some characters.  See the difference human vs metahuman makes when that's the only difference.

Seriously do that.  Mages, Technomancers, and anyone who wants Edge will be essentially identical to the Human build.  That's a really big swath of builds.

[Finstersang]

The mechanical advantage of playing human is the higher edge attribute.

Starting a combat/matrix/social confrontation with edge is mechanically really strong since it let you front-load your first actions and/or tests and/or initiative roll with edge boosts or edge actions. Starting a confrontation without edge or with limited edge mean you are often forced to wait until you build up edge or forced to only use weaker boosts or actions.

Ending a confrontation with a high edge attribute mean you can often walk out of the scene with a surplus of edge, ready to be used in the next scene. With a low edge attribute, overflow edge will be lost.

How powerful or weak this is in reality I think need to be tested and evaluated. A possible house rule if it seem to be in the weaker side could be to increase the maximum edge cap from 7 to 8 for humans. Another possible house rule could be that humans get to pick any two attributes as candidates for extra adjustment points during chargen.

But as I said, I think this needs to be evaluated first.

IMO, the problem is that humans now start with 1 Edge instead of 2. That increased maximum comes only into play if you actually go for 7 Edge. That´s not enough, not by a long shot. Fun fact: Only Human (9) even enables 7 Edge at chargen, so better play an awakened or Technomancer if you really want to make anything out of that one measly "benefit" humans have. 

Might even be another mistake that the minimum Edge got lowered. Someone got the memo that everyone´s Attribute starts at 1 now, and just rolled with it no matter what. With that peak level of editing and proofreading, I wouldn´t be too surprised.

Suggestion for Errata/Emergency Houserules: Pick one of these

• Humans start with Edge 2
• Humans get with one additional Attribute Point
• Humans get with one additional Special Attribute Point
• Humans may pick 1-2 Attributes in which they can put their special Attribute points as well (or just get total freedom here. It´s 9 Points at best and the other Metatypes would get them just the same)
• Humans get Bonus Karma (8-10?) for adjustments. Not that this is one of the most common, no-brainer ways to balance Human characters in other RPG Systems...

Justify it with "human privilege" or some woke bs if you need an explanation. Because apparantly, no one cares for such a thing as balancing anymore.

[mcv]

Is the issue here only about picking metatype priority A to get human(9)? Because traditionally, prio A has been to pick troll or ork, whereas humans tended to take prio E. The special attribute points have created a reason to pick a higher metatype prio yet still play a human, but I agree that 9 points are pretty hard to make efficient use of. So if prio A doesn't work for you, don't take it. Traditionally the advantage of playing a human is that you can take metatype priority E.

(Disclaimer: I haven't read the 6th edition rules, but from what I read in this thread, this particular aspect sounds very similar to how it works in 5th.)

(By 'traditionally' I mean editions 2 and 3, which didn't have Edge or special attribute points. Special attribute points were introduced in 5th ad far as I know.)

[Xenon]

Trolls also start with strength 1 and elf start with charisma 1 in this edition (same as humans start with edge 1). It's fair.

The only real issue is that you can't really build a human with low attribute priority since they can't spend adjustment points on physical or mental attributes, but this is a corner case most builds will not run into.

Build a few characters and you will see that most of them will end up mechanically very similar no matter what race you pick.

It's basically only when you want to build an extrem character when race will come into play.

Super strong unarmed character using bow.

Super charismatic character with high Agility.

Super high edge character.

[Michael Chandra]

Max Edge 7 instead of 6 only matters if you actually go for a 7-Edge character, which I feel has a diminished value due to the absolute cap of 7 at any time. Also, no other benefits at all. So I'd probably give them a small boost in return. Doesn't have to be near Dwarf/Troll levels, since those face increased costs, but maybe something simple like 5 extra karma.