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Bottom Of The Barrel SINs

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Dead Monky

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« on: <03-29-11/1537:14> »
Over the weekend I was helping a player new to ShadowRun create their first character and when it came time to pick up a fake SIN or two she wanted to cheap it and go with a single Rating 1 fake SIN.  I strongly recommended against such a move, as did my SR playing gf, and we presented all the reasons we could think of in two minutes why an R1 SIN is as useful as an anvil for a life preserver.

Anyway, it ended up sparking a rather interesting discussion and brainstorming session on what exactly the bottom of the barrel, craptacular SINs are good for.  Our thoughts: not much.  Mostly buying food at the Stuffer Shack, sicking the cops on people that aren't you, and wasting a thousand nuyen.

Any thoughts?

CanRay

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« Reply #1 on: <03-29-11/1546:33> »
Riding the bus/monorail/subway.

Begging in the streets.

Being caught (It's sometimes part of the plan.).
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FastJack

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« Reply #2 on: <03-29-11/2112:17> »
Signing out library books.

Shopping at adult bookstores.

Shopping at SuperTarWalMart

CanRay

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« Reply #3 on: <03-29-11/2114:56> »
Shopping at SuperTarWalMart
Kong-WalMart, actually.
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FastJack

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« Reply #4 on: <03-29-11/2137:39> »
Shopping at SuperTarWalMart
Kong-WalMart, actually.
Thanks, I couldn't remember the exact name. ;)

Charybdis

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« Reply #5 on: <03-30-11/0139:41> »
A rating 1 SIN is basically going to be refused by any ID system of R3 or higher.

So, I don't think even a StufferShack or a Mono-rail station has less than R3 electronic security. Basically this SIN seems like a 1k waste.

This is the digital equivalent of walking up to a bouncer with a Fake Drivers' License listing your name as:  McLovin

At best they'll hand it back, pat you on the head and tell you to move along. You crazy kids!

At worst? Well.... let's say the wasted 1k will be the least of your handcuffed concerns....
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CanRay

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« Reply #6 on: <03-30-11/0147:10> »
No, the cheap systems for monitoring SINs would be in places like Stuffer Shack and Monorails.  They don't care about the people buying, they care more about the quality of the Nuyen.  As long as the money is real, why should they care about if the person is real?  They have enough security to go, "But Officer, they had a SIN and were legal citizens as far as we could find out from our systems." if asked about the box of ammo found at the 'Runner's apartment.

It also depends on how in-depth they have the ID System set to.  Like how some Airports Pre-9/11 had the metal detectors set way low, while others would go off with the barest amounts of metal.  (A WWII vet relative of a friend with shrapnel in him always laughed when he went through a metal detector without it going off.).
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Kontact

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« Reply #7 on: <03-30-11/0617:27> »
A rating 1 SIN is just a vehicle for Edge.  Really, they all are.

FastJack

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« Reply #8 on: <03-30-11/0752:33> »
No, the cheap systems for monitoring SINs would be in places like Stuffer Shack and Monorails.  They don't care about the people buying, they care more about the quality of the Nuyen.  As long as the money is real, why should they care about if the person is real?  They have enough security to go, "But Officer, they had a SIN and were legal citizens as far as we could find out from our systems." if asked about the box of ammo found at the 'Runner's apartment.

It also depends on how in-depth they have the ID System set to.  Like how some Airports Pre-9/11 had the metal detectors set way low, while others would go off with the barest amounts of metal.  (A WWII vet relative of a friend with shrapnel in him always laughed when he went through a metal detector without it going off.).
Sidenote: As someone with a titanium rod running inside his femur, the "metal detectors" in use at airports and other locations, only detect external metal. They cannot "see" metal that is beneath something else.

Proof in point, pre-9/11, I used to wear this metal chain around my wrist (not a link chain, but the kind usually used as a necklace for ID cards). It was a bother to take on and off, and I had forgotten to take it off before coming to the airport. As I approached the metal detector and guard, I indicated that I was going to step out of line, since it was going to take a while. The guard waved me up and told me to a) hold my arm against my abdomen, and b) cover my wrist with my other hand, then step through the detector. Sure enough, it didn't go off.

Which is why I think airport security is such a total joke. If someone REALLY wants to blow up a plane, it's called elective surgery (think the fat guy in jail in The Dark Knight).

Charybdis

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« Reply #9 on: <03-30-11/0856:24> »
Which is why I think airport security is such a total joke. If someone REALLY wants to blow up a plane, it's called elective surgery (think the fat guy in jail in The Dark Knight).
Don't even get me started about airport security. I've watched nail clippers get confiscated, but have travelled with one of these on me (foreign and domestic) for the last 5 years.

I've been pulled out of line and chemical sniffed, patted down and all such jibber-jabber. Never once has my key been taken off me.

Western Airport security is a farce. They should learn a thing or two from Ben Gurion airport in Israel.
'Too much is never enough'

Current PC: Free Spirit (Norse Shamanic)
'Names are irrelevant. Which fake ID do you want me to quote from?'

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KarmaInferno

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« Reply #10 on: <03-30-11/0910:40> »
Eh. It looks like a key. Unless someone specifically knows about that product, they're going to assume it's a key.

I've got one myself, hanging off my keychain. I could hand my keychain off to someone else and I will bet that most won't notice that UtiliKey at all.


-k

Redwulfe

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« Reply #11 on: <03-30-11/0911:05> »
I often wonder how much of the ratings of the ID scanners that we use in our games is, GMs trying to catch fake SINs. I was looking at Shadows of North America today and they list the ratings of Border checkpoints and most have a rating 3 system (UCAS, CAS, Ute, Soix, etc.), some have 2(Californian Potectorate), or 4(Tir Tairngire, Denver) but that's only the really paranoid countries. If border checkpoints have this security then why would you suddenly find yourself in a stuffer shack that is almost a secure as a border crossing that has FBI agents trying to crack down on smuggling. so that brings me to the question of; Did we as GMs creep the level to try and catch our players who bought really good SINs? Was this our answer to their hardly ever being caught by ID scanners?

I did it too I would have rating 3 stuffer shacks and bars and level 5 or 6 checkpoints at borders and as I was getting ready for my New York game found myself rating the checkpoints at 5's and 6's. if it is due to me wanting my players to sweet then am I going about it the right way? I think we all want our players to sweet a bit, not truly catch them but at least make them feel like they are criminals doing illegal activities. But I also at the same time want to stay consistent with the world and the "pseudo reality" of it. So i make them keep SOTA on their SINS they degrade by one rating each month of non use. Forgers have to put expiration dates on the IDs to make them realistic so all IDs expire within 1d6 + Loyalty months and have to be renewed, it is also just good business. they can have their hacker forge them some IDs but that will take him time and resources(skills ad equipment) and has its own risks as these databases are pretty tough.

All of these things allow me to keep ratings at a reasonable level of 1-3 for UCAS I even have some rating 0 ID checkers that simply look at the name and picture of the ID and verify it with the person standing in front of it. Not all businesses, that are trying to make rent month to month, can afford the monthly service charge of ID verification, especially if you look at the number of places in major metropolitan centers today that don't have credit card machines because they don't want to pay the fee. In 2072 they are forced to deal with credit accounts but they don't have to check all IDS as thoroughly as a border crossing.

Long and short is in my game a rating 1 does have meaning, you can get a basic credit account with it and use it for purchase that you don't want to be tracked and traced to your real fake SIN you can use it to go into bars nightclubs and stuffer shacks to help keep anonymity when going to meets or while on a walk by or stake out so that NYPD doesn't pull up local stuffer shack and delivery joint records to see if the same person order food over a long period of time, and you could use it to simple walk around town as you just need to display an ID and not look suspicious to keep from getting pulled over. The problem in my games with a rating 1 ID is if it isn't verified at least once a month you will have to buy a new one each month which adds to monthly costs. remember that i use rating 0 and they don't verify with another database they just check the ID against the person standing there, anyone could use it with some nano paste and a prayer.

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CanRay

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« Reply #12 on: <03-30-11/1216:01> »
No, the cheap systems for monitoring SINs would be in places like Stuffer Shack and Monorails.  They don't care about the people buying, they care more about the quality of the Nuyen.  As long as the money is real, why should they care about if the person is real?  They have enough security to go, "But Officer, they had a SIN and were legal citizens as far as we could find out from our systems." if asked about the box of ammo found at the 'Runner's apartment.

It also depends on how in-depth they have the ID System set to.  Like how some Airports Pre-9/11 had the metal detectors set way low, while others would go off with the barest amounts of metal.  (A WWII vet relative of a friend with shrapnel in him always laughed when he went through a metal detector without it going off.).
Sidenote: As someone with a titanium rod running inside his femur, the "metal detectors" in use at airports and other locations, only detect external metal. They cannot "see" metal that is beneath something else.
Funny, friend of mine has a few pieces in him as well, and has to carry three or four pieces of documentation whenever he sets off the alarms.  He's happy to be staying at home now, rather than all the contract jobs in the US.

On the flipside, he jokes that he's a cyborg now.   :P
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Charybdis

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« Reply #13 on: <03-30-11/1716:39> »
Funny, friend of mine has a few pieces in him as well, and has to carry three or four pieces of documentation whenever he sets off the alarms.  He's happy to be staying at home now, rather than all the contract jobs in the US.

On the flipside, he jokes that he's a cyborg now.   :P
My uncle has a unique custom pacemaker due to a peculiar heart condition. He has an official piece of international medical documentation advising security personnel that he can never go through any X-ray machine or Scanner wand across the torso, ever.

Documentation has no photo id, and is a piece of laminated paper (like an old bus pass). And yet, he is never questioned with anything more than a light pat-down (including a lot of USA travel).

Now, forging one of those little passes is not hard once you've seen one....
'Too much is never enough'

Current PC: Free Spirit (Norse Shamanic)
'Names are irrelevant. Which fake ID do you want me to quote from?'

Phreak Commandment V:
If Thou Be In School, Strive To Get Thine Self Good Grades, For The Authorities Well Know That Scholars Never Break The Law

Dakka

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« Reply #14 on: <03-30-11/1753:34> »
We had an interesting discussion reguarding SINs in our group the other day.  Basically it was about if you are trying to purchase several thousand nuyen worth of whatever, lets say at a restaurant, and you give them your SIN to make a payment.  The R1 SIN basically tells the verification system to screw off but the money is there and now the restaurant has two choices, report the invalid SIN or take the money.  Most places would take the money, especially with the whole SINless problem being a problem in the first place.  R1 SINs are used for honest purchases that while there may BE a verification system for bureaucratic purposes the results will be ignored.