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Gritty, semi-realistic campaign looking for players.

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Ethan

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« Reply #30 on: <05-04-11/1235:07> »
Thanks Redwulfe, and yeah not a problem. I realize that having such a big, laser designated target on my character would be problematic for everyone involved so it definitely is a team decision.

Please put me down as a filler, whatever the team lacks I probably have a character (without said target) concept here somewhere.

dashifen

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« Reply #31 on: <05-04-11/1511:24> »
Have only thought of the few house rules that I have posted so far

Can those of us who prefer a BP build (for familiarity) still get 15 karma for a solidly written story?  If so, it's probably easiest to apply said karma after spending the 400 BP, I'd think.  Does that sound right to you?

I will look at the logic cap [...] if you want to sway me one way or the other i would gladly take your input on the realistic nature of the rules as you know allot more about real world computers than I.

Real world computing and SR computing should be two separate and largely mutually exclusive areas of expertise, but that might just be my opinion.  The upside to Skill + Logic limited by Program Rating is that it adds a reason for Hackers to have a high logic, clearly.  It also helps to avoid the need to buy programs at Rating 6 in order to increase die pools.  An edit test usually only has a Threshold of 4 so getting an Edit program of 6 may not be as necessary.  The downside to it -- illustrated by that example -- is that it does support a bit of min/maxing which makes it harder for newer players to know what to get at 6 and what they could probably purchase at 3.  It also makes ratings less than 3 basically useless whereas the default rules don't really result in that.  You might be less effective with skill plus a program rating of 1, but if you have 10+ dice in your pool for Skill + Logic but are capped at 1 hit, you're not accomplishing anything. 

As a result, it does make Extended tests a little harder because you need to roll more when you have that cap as opposed to when you do not.  Since many of the Matrix tests are extended, this can be an unexpected downside.  The #1 problem it presents -- which frankly isn't necessarily a big issue -- is finding nodes in hidden mode.  That 15+ threshold on the extended test is pretty hard to reach with a cap on hits.  And, since you're using the decreasing pool rules from SR4a with respect to extended tests, they're already made a lot more difficult.

It's also much harder on Technomancers than it is for classic Hackers.  Since TMs will start with less complex forms than a Hacker has programs, the need for Threading increases quite a bit which, in turn, means an increased chance to suffer Fading damage.  On the flip-side, the savvy TM can figure out what level they can Thread a program and buy the hits necessary to avoid Fading and if they have a friendly GM, suddenly they have ALL of the complex forms which is really probably not the best thing either.

I've never had a problem with the basic rules.  But, the optional Skill + Logic rules make Hacking feel like the rest of the game a little more organically.  I've run with it for a semester just to test things out and I don't think it was any more or less successful than using the "normal" rules and since it means that Hackers have to care about that Logic attribute, I'm generally in favor of it.  And, as long as the GM understands the effect this has on extended tests, things can be mitigated to some extent.  And, the big important programs that interact with extended tests (i.e., Browse, Exploit, Scan, and Track; maybe Medic) can just be the ones that are purchased at higher ratings.  Under the base rules, Exploit and Scan were likely to be high rating purchases anyway, so this only elevates the importance of Browse, Track and (maybe) Medic if you have that sort of character.

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Another question:  Spoofing.  I'm fairly free with things like Access IDs for Spoofing.  Need to go through a door, scan a guard since their Access ID lets them get through doors.  It wouldn't let you through all doors -- guards might not have access to the CEO suite -- but many of them.  Since Access IDs are available upon a successful Matrix Perception test, the question really centers how your gritty realism translates to matrix security paranoia within the population.  Most of the average people at my tables run in Passive Mode to avoid spam but to still allow access to their PAN by trusted or important sources.  The likelihood that the average guard, for example, would be running Hidden is slim.  Thus, the door-opening example works.  But if you think that most people would be Hidden, it changes the way I might target the character away from Spoofing and more toward Exploiting.

But, with Spoofing comes trying again.  Since the Spoof is a pass/fail sort of test, if you fail, you usually want to try again.  Do you use the -2 modifier for trying again?  Also, I know that when spoofs fail at my tables, I usually have a System + Analyze (Stealth) test happen on the server-side.  Otherwise, there's little to stop a Spoofer until they glitch.  This isn't necessary spelled out in the rules, but it's also not excluded. 

Thoughts?
« Last Edit: <05-04-11/1515:02> by dashifen »
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Sichr

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« Reply #32 on: <05-04-11/1521:52> »
Spoof enables you to make a Single one command, so it is almost useless if you want to access the node, but its good when stealing drones or when dealing with sensors etc. Exploit should always came handy, when dealing with more complicated problems...

Redwulfe

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« Reply #33 on: <05-04-11/1621:43> »
@ Dash- Access IDs are used allot for doors some higher end security facilities will have a passkey in addition so just spoofing the ID will probably not help there, but then again several other tactics don't work there as well. most often you will run into normal security which is just an ID required. So you should be fine. Police agencies higher level public buildings and corporate facilities will have passkeys or at the least a keypad code needed in addition to the ID. I treat IDs lick the modern world transponder card. You have been to the U of I and should know what these are. they are a card that when held up to a prox reader allow access to the facility. I've installed these systems so know how they work fairly well. In short most places will just need the ID so spoofing your ID to match one that was scanned should be fine and you can get the ID with a matrix perception test on the node in question. If a key pad or other extra security device is present though you will still need to bypass them as well and it will all depend on the run on what is there.

As far as the skill + logic caped by rating for hits, I am seeing much merit in it and would like to try it out. Since you are the hacker and it affects you mostly we will go ahead with it as I would like to explore this option further for possible use in my regular games.
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inca1980

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« Reply #34 on: <05-04-11/1637:06> »
I'd like to join, but i'm gonna be outa town for an extended period....if you guys still haven't started by the time i get back in June, then i'd love to join.  Just don't wanna slow you guys down :)  Looks really cool.

Sichr

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« Reply #35 on: <05-04-11/1644:23> »
OK. Salish ork girl, ex-paramed is slowly comming alive. She has an old grandpa, whom she has to take care off, and so she is working out in the renton or Puyallup street clinics for a few money. Skilled marksman and expert for antidodes. Like I said...working slowly on that but I begin to like her :)

Triggvi

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« Reply #36 on: <05-04-11/1729:54> »
Korbin NcNaulty is pretty much done pending GM approval. Ex-Lone Star detective turned private eye and part time shadow runner.

He is an adept investigator. Minor combat person, heavy perception, and good social skills. He is noted at being an artist when is come to interrogation.
« Last Edit: <05-04-11/1826:20> by Triggvi »
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Redwulfe

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« Reply #37 on: <05-04-11/1759:03> »
@ Ethan- Your on line if you want to join.
@ inca1980- no problem I will expand the game to 7 when you get back, this will give me time to get everything situated for your arrival.

@ Triggvi- Will be looking over all characters this weekend for a Monday possible start time.

@ Everyone- I will try to get the game finished and up on Monday. I would like to be able to look over characters on Saturday since I have the day off, if that is possible with your guys. Also the extra Karma for story is given after characters are done and can be spent by first session but is separate from the build/karma gen points.

Thanks guys, this looks like it will be fun.
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dashifen

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« Reply #38 on: <05-04-11/1814:26> »
Spoof enables you to make a Single one command, so it is almost useless if you want to access the node, but its good when stealing drones or when dealing with sensors etc. Exploit should always came handy, when dealing with more complicated problems...

It's also good for things like telling guns to eject clips, spoofing cybereyes to mess up, telling limbs to enter diagnostic mode, etc.  You can do a lot with spoof, it just requires creativity and a fun GM.

@Red - Awesome i'm off to the road so I'll re-read that post more carefully when I get back to the internet on Friday and should be able to post a character on Saturday in some capacity. 
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Ethan

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« Reply #39 on: <05-04-11/2157:13> »
Great thanks.

Seems I'll be the Awakened one in the team. Will work on a character concept.

Question: I'd like to build this using Karmagen, would it be possible for me to purchase the Masking metamagic for 15 karma? It's an optional rule, and it helps out when trying to be incognito.
« Last Edit: <05-04-11/2202:17> by Ethan »

Triggvi

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« Reply #40 on: <05-04-11/2304:10> »
I am working flushing Korbin's, my PI, background. I am wondering if any of you want to tie into his background.

you can PM me and work that way or we can do skype.

Ethan, you maybe the mage but not the only awakened person on the team. :)
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Redwulfe

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« Reply #41 on: <05-05-11/0027:13> »
@ Ethan- yes I am using this optional rule, but you can not learn it with character creation points. This does not stop you from using the bonus points as these are spent after creation but before play. You can either spend 13 and initiate or spend the 15 and learn it outside of initiation. I would suggest the latter as you would miss out on some roleplay if you do the former, but the choice is yours.

@ everyone- I have decided to give an additional 10 starting karma for forming in character connections to other players in the group. so that is a possibility of getting 25 extra karma for your character. These points are not added to your karma build total and can be spent on anything karma can get you in character advancement.
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Teyl_Iliar

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« Reply #42 on: <05-05-11/0109:31> »
@ everyone- I have decided to give an additional 10 starting karma for forming in character connections to other players in the group. so that is a possibility of getting 25 extra karma for your character. These points are not added to your karma build total and can be spent on anything karma can get you in character advancement.

In what way to you intend for us to form connections via this karma? Is there a specific way this supposed to happen? I have not    done this before and would appreciate more definitive guidance please.
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Triggvi

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« Reply #43 on: <05-05-11/0110:58> »
it is forming connections character to character is our backstorys
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Ethan

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« Reply #44 on: <05-05-11/0224:26> »
Question: What's the stance on mind-altering magic? I'm hesitant to take them since it may make some parts of the game way too easy. Jedi Mind tricks aside, it's not called "mindrape" because the 6th World peeps think its funny.

I have three mages at the moment, the most well-developed is the human. Second up is the Dwarf. Both have a similar background: Crash 2.0 sent someone they love into a coma, they pursued their magical talents and got hired on as a spell designer/researcher for a corporation. This loved one disappears, or wakes up and runs off. He chases them, leaving the corp behind who is none too happy at the "self extractor". He turns to the shadows, almost giving up hope at finding this person. The corp isn't out to get him anymore, he wasn't that important anyway, but they have his files on record still even though he has cut all ties with anyone he knew. It could be that he is doing minor consulting work still, trying to keep a semblance of being upstanding.

The last concept is an elf shaman. I call him the stereotype. I know there won't be much combat, but he'll be using a bow. And a sword. He'll have Str 3 so I'd like to call a Heavy Crossbow a "Bow" instead, or he'll pretend it is anyway, but I may just go with a standard bow. He'll have practical skills as well, he can stroll into most social situations with ease and confidence (and not a little bit of arrogance). He won't be the primary face, but certainly a social infiltrator.

Background is simple: born rich, bored, decides to live the life he wants. However, he can't just quit and call it a day. He's burned bridges so he works the shadows to live and be free, as one can be. Dragon mentor spirit, so he's quite proud and hardheaded. And since he's a stereotype, he does have a fire spell (or two) as well.

Still haven't decided on which one.