[Adarkm07]

I'm looking for advice on a character I'm building for a new game starting soon. The group is lacking a decent infiltrator (we've got a couple deckers, a couple sams, and a rigger), and no one else will be able to astrally perceive let alone deal with spirits et al. I've been slowly going through some of the books that came out while I was away from the game and Barehanded Adept from Forbidden Arcana piqued my interest. With that in mind I started working on a Shaolin Monk turned Shadowrunner.

Priorities are (atm, but flexible) A - Attributes, B - Magic, C - Skills, D - Resources, E - Metatype.

Looking at some other people's builds I'm thinking of going Adept Spell, Adept Accident, Nerve Strike, Improved Reflexes 2, and Astral Perception for powers.

The part that is tripping me up is spell selection for the Adept Spell and Barehanded Adept. The latter is less concerning as I found a wonderful thread of suggestions (here: https://forums.shadowruntabletop.com/index.php?topic=26541.0) but the Adept Spell could be anything, and I'm not sure where to go with it. Suggestions welcome.

I'm also interested in general tactical advice for this style of character, and what skills I should focus on (outside 1 rating of Spellcasting, and 6 Unarmed Combat).

I havn't built a runner in a while and appreciate any help I can get.

[Tecumseh]

One of your bigger issues is that Metatype E = Human = limited Strength = limited damage output. Now it sounds like you're going to sidestep that by going with Nerve Strike. This is a reasonable idea since attacking Agility and/or Reaction means a shorter "condition monitor" and greater odds of one-shotting an opponent.

For your spells, I would consider something that could assist your infiltration. Levitate gives you a third dimension to use, or Shapechange could turn you into something innocuous. If you go with Shapechange you'll have to keep an eye on the limitations (+/2 of your Body rating), especially since you'll want your Body to be reasonably high for soaking drain. Plus, note that your clothes don't change with you, so you might be running around naked a lot.

I wouldn't tank Charisma, as it can be useful to have some social skills to fall back on if you get caught. Logic is probably your dumpstat, or maybe even Strength if your plan is to leverage Nerve Strike.

You're going to be spread thinly on skills, since you'll want Unarmed as high as possible, plus the usual Perception and Sneaking. Add in Assensing if you're going with Astral Perception, although you still don't have a way to hurt spirits unless you take Astral Combat, which will tax your skills even further. Then there's Spellcasting too, plus any social skills you might want, plus Locksmith if you want to be an infiltrator, and it's an uphill slope.

If you're allowed to use Sum-to-10 then I'd consider taking Resources E and Skills B. Put 10 karma into nuyen and you'll have enough to scrape by until you complete a job or two.

I might postpone Adept Spell and/or Adept Accident until you initiate. In the meantime, Combat Sense is a great always-on power that will help keep you alive, especially if you're behind enemy lines. Traceless Walk is also a great power for an infiltrator, especially since there's not really a mundane equivalent to it. Attribute Boost (AGI) could also help with the sneaking and connecting on unarmed attacks.

I've never taken Adept Accident since you basically have to succeed twice: once for the attack (unless you're touching someone innocuously in a non-combat situation) and then the second MAG+INT vs. REA+INT test. That's probably 11 dice for you vs. 6ish dice for an average opponent, so only 1-2 net hits on average. That seems underwhelming, but it depends on how generous your GM is with the effects of the resulting glitch.

A quick sketch:

Body: 4 (for drain soak)
Agility: 6 (for sneaking, punching, lockpicking)
Strength: 2 (bought with 10 karma)
Reaction: 5 (for Initiative and dodging)
Charisma: 5 ("Yer a face, Hā lì!")
Intuition: 5 (for Perception, Assensing, dodging, and Initiative)
Logic: 2 (bought with 10 karma)
Willpower: 5 (for drain soaking and maybe Astral Combat)

That taxes a lot of your karma, especially with Barehanded Adept taking up 10, so you'll have to load up on Negative Qualities. Try to save some room for Mentor Spirit, if you can. The In Debt quality might give you some wiggle room, but I recommend keeping it to a reasonable level: 2 ranks is fine, but I probably won't go over 4 ranks.

+25: starting karma
+25: negative qualities
-10: Barehanded Adept
-10: Strength 2
-10: Logic 2
-10: Nuyen
-5: Mentor Spirit
-4: a couple level 1 skills, like Spellcasting 1 if you keep Adept Spell

Skills might be:

Skill Group
Influence: 5 (especially if you don't have a face in the group, if you do then maybe Stealth)

Individual Skills, roughly highest to lowest priority
Unarmed Combat
Sneaking
Perception
Assensing
Locksmith
Con
Gymnastics
Astral Combat
Palming
Disguise

Obviously lots to do there, especially at Skills C. Skills B will make life easier, and the four skill points from Magic B will help too. Buy rating 1 skills with karma, if you can, and put the skill points you save into higher-rated skills or specializations.

Anyway, that's what I pencil out in my head when I think about it. There's lots of things that you could change or shift to fit your table or what you want to play. Hopefully this is some food for thought.

[kainite311]

I am not sure why (chummer does it too), but spatial sense(extended) in Street Grimoire p.108  is not listed for the barehanded adept on that list. Personally I find this spell a blessing. Knowing all the nooks, crannies, and secret tunnels in a 100+ meter radius? priceless on a B&E character. Also I like Detox, for scrubbing side effects from drugs and toxins.

As far as Adept Spell. I am not a big fan as it costs another resource (skill in Spellcasting). It can good for a niche build with the right spell, but your casting dice pool will be pretty low, and therfor only depend on getting 3 successes, so keep that in mind when picking spells that require higher successes to be effective.

To deal with spirits, your going to need either killing hands power, or a weapon focus. Otherwise all you can really do is see them when they are astral, or only be as effective as every other mundane when they materialize. Unfortunately as a human, your str will be lower then say a troll or orc so killing hands will not be as effective vs an unarmed weapon (brass knuckles, liner gloves or whatever they are called, or even shock gloves). However, introducing a "weapon" means weapon focus and adds more cost, plus detectable while assensing/astral perceiving/ect. Killing Hands on the other hand can be turned off for stealth vs these types. so, there is that.

Don't forget Improved Ability (skill) for whatever your main weapon skill will be (I assume unarmed from your list). Boost Attribute(Agility) I find pretty handy and is really cheap power costwise (average +2 to agi for 4 combat turns for 1 drain to resist with body + will). Specialize in that ability also (Martial Arts if bare fists).

[Adarkm07]

Thank you both for your quick replies! Theres a lot to go through in your posts but one thing I want to address (since I thought of it too, but didnt mention it in my original post).

Would the Mana Strike technique from Hapsum-Do (martial art found in Forbidden Arcana p101-102) to avoid taking Astral Combat/Killing Hands/A Weapon Foci? Its 15* karma, but opens up the other techniques if I choose to take those. Not sure how useful forced Drain from Mana Choke is versus just using Nerve Strike, but everything else in the list isn't bad on the surface.


* I missed the note at the bottom of the martial art about it's increased cost.

[kainite311]

Thank you both for your quick replies! Theres a lot to go through in your posts but one thing I want to address (since I thought of it too, but didnt mention it in my original post).

Would the Mana Strike technique from Hapsum-Do (martial art found in Forbidden Arcana p101-102) to avoid taking Astral Combat/Killing Hands/A Weapon Foci? Its 15* karma, but opens up the other techniques if I choose to take those. Not sure how useful forced Drain from Mana Choke is versus just using Nerve Strike, but everything else in the list isn't bad on the surface.


* I missed the note at the bottom of the martial art about it's increased cost.

It would appear so. 15 karma for the style with one technique, plus 7 per additional technique... karma wise it might be better to just pick a spirit mentor (shark gives you free killing hands), or another you like that frees up power points by giving you what other powers you want for free. Then after a few runs initiate 13 karma and get another power point. Also using mentors mask option when you pick a mentor spirit gives you another power point...

[Adarkm07]

The more I look at the pool of spells available (something I've never done before because I've never done a caster outside an Adept), the more I dismiss because of the inherent Force limitation on Barehanded Adept (Force 2 @ Magic 6).

It leaves me wondering if I would be better off going full-tilt Mystic Adept. I lose out on Unarmed for Spellcasting, which is unfortunate, but I might be a better character overall.

[kainite311]

The more I look at the pool of spells available (something I've never done before because I've never done a caster outside an Adept), the more I dismiss because of the inherent Force limitation on Barehanded Adept (Force 2 @ Magic 6).

It leaves me wondering if I would be better off going full-tilt Mystic Adept. I lose out on Unarmed for Spellcasting, which is unfortunate, but I might be a better character overall.

That's why i was suggesting low power needed spells... Mystic Adept has to purchase their power points at character creation, so there is that... and they get quite MAD (Multi Ability Dependant) between the spellcasting skills, physical skills, and needing both mental and physical stats

[Adarkm07]

Going to just post my current updated build sketch for people's perusal before I go to bed. In answer to something earlier, not using Sum-to-Ten because the rest of the group isn't.

"Street Name TBD"
Priorities - Attribues (A), Magic (B), Skills (C), Resources (D), Metatype (E)
Human Adept (Buddhist (FA variant))
B 4 A 6 R 5 S 2 C 5 I 5 L 2 W 5 E 2 M 7  (-20 Karma)
Qualities
Barehanded Adept, Spirit Pilgrim, Spirit Lodge, Mentor Spirit (Wise Warrior w/Mask), Exceptional Attribute (MAG) (-19 Karma)
Distinctive Style, Impassive, Prejudiced (Specific, Radical vs Communist Organizations) (+20 Karma)
Skills
Acting Group 2
Archery 4 (Crossbow), Unarmed Combat 6, Perception 4, Locksmith 1, Hardware 4 (Alarms), Gymnastics 3, Assensing 4, Pilot Ground Craft 1, Escape Artist 1, Etiquette 1 (-8 karma)
Magic
Spells - Gecko Crawl, Spatial Sense Extended (need 1 more spell)
Adept Powers - Astral Perception (1), Improved Ability (Unarmed; 0), Improved Reflexes 2 (2.5), Nerve Strike (1), Traceless Walk (1), Combat Sense 1 (0.5), Attribute Boost (STR) 2 (0.5) (1.5 left)

-2 Karma open

I'll probably save power points by not taking Killing Hands and make Hapsum-Do an early purchase for Mage Strike (and Disarm is handy too).


EDIT THE NEXT MORNING:

So I totally missed in Forbidden Arcana where Traditional Buddhists (which the character is) get Barehanded adept for free plus a couple other doodads. Fixed above.

[kainite311]

**edited**

I deleted everything I wrote because I thought you made a Mystic Adept per your previous post.

Only thing I really see wrong is Spellcasting skill. Adepts can't learn from Sorcery skill branch

[Adarkm07]

**edited**

I deleted everything I wrote because I thought you made a Mystic Adept per your previous post.

Only thing I really see wrong is Spellcasting skill. Adepts can't learn from Sorcery skill branch

I was thinking about it at the time of that post, but decided against it after talking through how the Quality worked with my GM.

The 1 rank of spellcasting was to later qualify for Adept Spell. But I see now you have to take the power first. Bummer.

I could use advice on cleaning the skill list up and what to take for that 3rd spell, but otherwise I think this character is mostly done besides gear. I'll edit the above post to reflect the changes.

[Hobbes]

Generic Advise, Body of 3 or 5.

Locksmith is a 1 point wonder skill I wouldn't bother with specializing just buy the assorted tools and gear for bypassing locks.  Locksmith is an extended test, higher ratings just take longer.

Hardware (Alarms)!  Yay!  Well done.  Probably a wee bit over-invested as that's a fairly easy test that doesn't come up often at most tables.  YMMV.

Skills at 1 should be bought with Karma.

Also Etiquette of 1 with Karma if you can.

Longarms isn't an ideal back up weapon skill, I'd suggest Archery (Crossbow) and take the Crossbow pistol loaded with Stick&Shock and Static Shafts.  Or go Pistol.

IMO a Sneak total of 7 dice is low, especially for a high Agility Runner.  I would suggest Sneak (Urban) with as many skill points as you have left over and just pick up Palming of 1 with Karma.  You're an Unarmed Adept, you really don't care about sneaking weapons around.

Invest in Shock Gloves if you haven't.  Mortimer's of London Armor if you can scrape up the Nuyen.

Powers, more Combat Sense for a fighting option.  Or Authoritative Tone for Social options.  Also fun with a 5 Willpower, 3 levels of Spell Resistance.  Pick one of those and just put your 1.5 points into it and carry on.  Also Attribute boost Str?  Did you mean Agility maybe?

Edit: Spells.  Detox, Clairvoyance, Physical Barrier, Improved Invisibility (and carry a handful of reagents), Shapechange (Nerve strike works even if you're a Raven or a Mouse.)

[Hobbes]

So I totally missed in Forbidden Arcana where Traditional Buddhists (which the character is) get Barehanded adept for free plus a couple other doodads. Fixed above.

Having the Tradition listed with the Quality lowers the skill prerequisites by 2.  Karma costs are the same.  Just FYI

[Adarkm07]

Quoting pg 62 of Forbidden Arcana, from the Tradition Updates section:

Traditional Buddhist Rules
--------------------------------------------
Traditional practitioners of Buddhism adhere to the following rules:
*Cannot use the Enchanting skill group.
*Cannot use reagents or fetishes.
*Gain Barehanded Adept for free (Magicians resist drain normally).
*Gain Spiritual Pilgrim for free.
*Gain Spiritual Lodge for free.
*Bodhisattvas must take an ordeal when initiating, as there is no knowledge won without sacrifice.

Unless I'm reading this wrong?


I am taking a bunch of your advice on skills.  Attribute Boost (STR) is intentional, as I was going to taking Clinch-Throw down the line which requires and it, plus some other martial art techniques, do require decent strength. I may go back to the drawing board on this idea though.

For sure taking Hapsum-Do for Disarm and Magic Strike. Other martial arts seem like a good idea depending on what I get from it.

On the subject of spells:
Clairvoyance would be nice if my force limit of 2 didn't limit it to 14m.
Physical Barrier, Improved Invisibility, and Shapechange are all not Touch spells. I could pick Adept Spell back up for one of them (and was planning to when I initiate, but I could do it now too).

I've seen Detox on the list of 'best spells' for someone to take through my method, but I haven't scouted through the drugs a ton for uses.

I've been considering Physical Mask (a friend strongly reccomended Vehicle Mask instead). Increase/Decrease Gear Limit doesnt rely on Force, or I could grab Increase Inherent Limit for myself to offset my lowish edge. Heal relies on Force but I'd be the only one in the party with it.

[Hobbes]

Forgot about the touch requirement on Barehanded Adept, you're correct.  And 14 Meters is a long way.  Couple hotel rooms over, easy.  Other side of a door.  Inside a Vehicle.  Room three floors up or down.  Many, Many uses. 

My impression of the Updated traditions was used by Mages, not Adepts.  The primary drawback of several of these Traditions is to lose access / have limits on Enchanting, Conjuring, or Spellcasting.  For the most part those Drawbacks don't matter to Adepts since they don't have access to them anyway.  A Buddhist Adept basically picks up 3 qualities for free with no Drawbacks.  But check with your GM.

And keep in mind the Boost powers don't add to a stat, just to dice pools used by that stat.  A ticky-tacky distinction that can trip you up occasionally. 

[kainite311]

Forgot about the touch requirement on Barehanded Adept, you're correct.  And 14 Meters is a long way.  Couple hotel rooms over, easy.  Other side of a door.  Inside a Vehicle.  Room three floors up or down.  Many, Many uses. 

My impression of the Updated traditions was used by Mages, not Adepts.  The primary drawback of several of these Traditions is to lose access / have limits on Enchanting, Conjuring, or Spellcasting.  For the most part those Drawbacks don't matter to Adepts since they don't have access to them anyway.  A Buddhist Adept basically picks up 3 qualities for free with no Drawbacks.  But check with your GM.

And keep in mind the Boost powers don't add to a stat, just to dice pools used by that stat.  A ticky-tacky distinction that can trip you up occasionally.

Agree ^
Boost str really only useful for a handful of things, since it only adds to dice pool test involving str (so not to damage). Gymnastics, running, swimming are really about the only things I can think of (outside of lifting check). So i guess if you want to run faster, or parkour a lot, I don't see it getting much use as opposed to react (initiative, physical driving, dodging) or agility (just about all physical skills combat wise and noncombat wise).