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Clothing vs Armor / PPP Ambiguity

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JustADude

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« on: <11-10-11/0730:11> »
Okay, as far as I can tell there doesn't seem to be anything clearly defining what counts as Clothing, Armor, or both, other than common sense... which seems to not be enough to keep there from being some massive headaches (see my thread about PPP for an example: http://forums.shadowrun4.com/index.php?topic=5340.0). Specific page reference would be the section on "Clothing and Armor" in SR4A, p326.

There apparently needs to be a more explicit statement of the relationships between what is considered "clothing", what is considered "armor" and what, if anything, is considered both.

This is further complicated by the entry for the SecureTech PPP-System gear (Arsenal, p49) which states "Each piece of armor is available in at least three styles: as discreet protection designed to be worn beneath other clothing, as an obvious strapped addition to other visible armor, and as sports equipment."

As the aforementioned thread has proven, there's quite a bit of room for dispute about the definition of "visible armor", as well as whether the "discreet protection" version can be worn beneath items listed in the Armor table in the Core book, such as Armor Clothing or the Urban Explorer Jumpsuit  (SR4A, p326 again), as well as the "Armor Clothing" fashion items from Arsenal (p44-48).

While it seems perfectly obvious to me that "visible armor" is defined as "armor that looks like armor" and "yes", respectively, the aforementioned thread rather proves that either the word "visible" should either be changed to "obvious", or some further clarification that armor is not clothing, and which things count as what, needs to be added.

If my interpretation is the correct one, it might actually cause less literal-interpretation-of-RAW-vs-logic headbutting if the entry is rewritten to say something like "Each piece of armor is available in at least three styles: as discreet protection that can be worn beneath other layers, obvious strapped pads that are worn worn on top, and as sports equipment." Note the removal of all references to to 'armor' or 'clothing' while maintaining essentially the same information.
« Last Edit: <11-10-11/0747:43> by JustADude »
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FastJack

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« Reply #1 on: <11-10-11/0818:32> »
Y'know... for examples, y'all might want to check out Street Legends. Just about every entry in that book has the runners wearing all kinds of Armor and Armor Clothing and the artwork stays pretty true to what that equipment looks like. Which, by the way, is that armor can be clothing. Now, if you show up at a 5-star restaurant wearing a lined coat (and you aren't an eccentric rock-star/celebrity), they will turn you away. Think of it this way: In the sixth world, everyone assumes everyone else is wearing something protective. The leather jacket on that guy walking down the street has some ballistic plates, the suit on the cute girl at the bus-stop probably has carbon fibers woven into it, even kid delivering pizzas has got a light vest under his uniform. Because, in the Sixth world, going outside your front door is dangerous business.

That all being said, armor is noticeable versus non-armor. But it's not an automatically distinguishable fact. If two guys are both wearing padded vests (like Marty McFly's in Back to the Future), and one has protection built in and the other doesn't, you're only going to be able to tell which is which if you know what you're looking for.

JustADude

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« Reply #2 on: <11-10-11/0825:58> »
Cool, thanks. I was pretty sure that was the case, but I wanted to bring things to official attention, since the possibility for misinterpretation has been made evident.
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The Wyrm Ouroboros

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« Reply #3 on: <11-13-11/2250:20> »
I admit agreeing with you, FJ, but I think this is one of the cases where RAW needs to coincide with RAI, for just the sorts of GMs who get wiggy over it.
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