Shadowrun
Catalyst Game Labs => Errata => Topic started by: redTroll on <09-05-11/0617:09>
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Not sure if it is errata but Bone lacing (cyberware) is forbidden while bone augmentation (bioware) isn't even restricted. Is there a reason for this, as any clarification would help stop the whining in our games
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There's no good reason for it. Nothing breaks if you houserule it, but there isn't errata, either.
Basically, what happened is that it's a consequence of design by committee, which leads to inconsistencies like this. Whoever assigned Bone Lacing to be F figured that since it made your melee attacks do P damage, it should be forbidden, just like cyberspurs or whatever else. But Bone Density Augmentation and Cyberlimbs get you P-damage regular melee anyways, and it's not like actual melee weapons are all F.
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Yeah seems well off. I can get a licence (fake obviously) for the gun in my mouth but God forbid i want to augment my body with something that allows me to punch people hard. Cheers for the info.
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Somebody asked the same question on a French forum a few month ago. Considering Bone Density firt appeared the Universal Omnitech catalog featuring in Shadowtech, Third edition allowed getting a license for bone lacing, and bone density did not exist then, the best answer I could come up with was this:
In 2068, Universal Omnitech is offering its new bone density bioware augmentation treatment to everyone, price starting at 20,000¥. This new technology is far more efficient and less invasive than Universal Omnitech old Bone Lacing™ reinforcement. This is why from now and until December 31, 2069, Universal Omnitech is offering a 20% discount of bone density augmentation to all the customer who previously chose Bone Lacing™. Bone Lacing™ will no longer be available at Universal Omnitech or its licensees.
Corporation or surgeons who would propose Bone Lacing™ will be sued by Universal Omnitech for patent infringement. Following the "Universal Omnitech versus Kokura Biotechnologies" decision, a permanent warrant from the Corporate court allows immediate seizing what would be infringing on Universal Omnitech intellectual property.
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Somebody asked the same question on a French forum a few month ago. Considering Bone Density firt appeared the Universal Omnitech catalog featuring in Shadowtech, Third edition allowed getting a license for bone lacing, and bone density did not exist then, the best answer I could come up with was this:
In 2068, Universal Omnitech is offering its new bone density bioware augmentation treatment to everyone, price starting at 20,000¥. This new technology is far more efficient and less invasive than Universal Omnitech old Bone Lacing™ reinforcement. This is why from now and until December 31, 2069, Universal Omnitech is offering a 20% discount of bone density augmentation to all the customer who previously chose Bone Lacing™. Bone Lacing™ will no longer be available at Universal Omnitech or its licensees.
Corporation or surgeons who would propose Bone Lacing™ will be sued by Universal Omnitech for patent infringement. Following the "Universal Omnitech versus Kokura Biotechnologies" decision, a permanent warrant from the Corporate court allows immediate seizing what would be infringing on Universal Omnitech intellectual property.
That is quite interesting. I didn't know that was why Bone Lacing was illegal. it makes sense to me that is why it would be that way.
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There's no good reason for it. Nothing breaks if you houserule it, but there isn't errata, either.
Basically, what happened is that it's a consequence of design by committee, which leads to inconsistencies like this. Whoever assigned Bone Lacing to be F figured that since it made your melee attacks do P damage, it should be forbidden, just like cyberspurs or whatever else. But Bone Density Augmentation and Cyberlimbs get you P-damage regular melee anyways, and it's not like actual melee weapons are all F.
Nothing against the writers, line developers, and so forth, but I really hope that when SR5 rolls around, issues like this get addressed...
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There's no good reason for it. Nothing breaks if you houserule it, but there isn't errata, either.
Basically, what happened is that it's a consequence of design by committee, which leads to inconsistencies like this. Whoever assigned Bone Lacing to be F figured that since it made your melee attacks do P damage, it should be forbidden, just like cyberspurs or whatever else. But Bone Density Augmentation and Cyberlimbs get you P-damage regular melee anyways, and it's not like actual melee weapons are all F.
Nothing against the writers, line developers, and so forth, but I really hope that when SR5 rolls around, issues like this get addressed...
It won't. Oh, some might, but many will remain unanswered. Plus you'll get the inevitable typos and misplacements of text, not to mention the additional last-minute "Hey, this'd be neat" ideas (last minute being relative, just not all the ramifications get considered). Oh, and don't forget where they decide rules that you didn't think needed changed, do.
It's the nature of the beast. Heck, it happens in encyclopedias and severely edited professional journals everywhere, what makes you think an operation working close to the bone is going to do better?
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Bone lacing is much cheaper.
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Bone lacing is much cheaper.
Yeah, the Bone Lacing is cheaper, but Bone Augmentation's Essence Cost is a lot cheaper. And isn't that just as important?
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Bone lacing is much cheaper.
Yeah, the Bone Lacing is cheaper, but Bone Augmentation's Essence Cost is a lot cheaper. And isn't that just as important?
Exactly - money can always be acquired - there is a finite amount of Essence.
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Bone lacing is much cheaper.
Yeah, the Bone Lacing is cheaper, but Bone Augmentation's Essence Cost is a lot cheaper. And isn't that just as important?
Exactly - money can always be acquired - there is a finite amount of Essence.
That was my point exactly. But bone lacing also gives the imitation of a certain mutated character, just give them a couple of other modifications and it's slice and dice time, or Fastball special.
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Bone lacing is much cheaper.
Yeah, the Bone Lacing is cheaper, but Bone Augmentation's Essence Cost is a lot cheaper. And isn't that just as important?
Exactly - money can always be acquired - there is a finite amount of Essence.
That was my point exactly. But bone lacing also gives the imitation of a certain mutated character, just give them a couple of other modifications and it's slice and dice time, or Fastball special.
I didn't see the listing for Adamantium Bone Lacing - is that in War! ;)
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Bone lacing is much cheaper.
Yeah, the Bone Lacing is cheaper, but Bone Augmentation's Essence Cost is a lot cheaper. And isn't that just as important?
Exactly - money can always be acquired - there is a finite amount of Essence.
That was my point exactly. But bone lacing also gives the imitation of a certain mutated character, just give them a couple of other modifications and it's slice and dice time, or Fastball special.
I didn't see the listing for Adamantium Bone Lacing - is that in War! ;)
No, but titanium is close enough.
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Many implants are trumped by more costly implants.
These items are still useful because most npcs and starting characters dont have unlimited funds.
From a fluff perspective it would seem that law enforcement doesnt want the poor to be armed. Also, as a bone strengthening process rather than a physical implant, Bone Density might be more difficult to legislate against.
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It's also harder to spot and therefore police. Legal people take the easy road, too.
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Sometimes, it isn't about either. As mentioned before, the process for Lacing Bone has ceased by the people that have the liscencing for it. they now do the Bone Augmentation. so until someone can get a hold of that liscence, Bone Lacing is illegal. Now if an enterprising Street Dock can hire some runners and find a why to get the liscensing... taa-daa
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As mentioned before, the process for Lacing Bone has ceased by the people that have the liscencing for it.
Note that was pure invention from my part. It is not an official explanation.
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As mentioned before, the process for Lacing Bone has ceased by the people that have the liscencing for it.
Note that was pure invention from my part. It is not an official explanation.
Wow, then yeah there is no real reason. hmmmmmm
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Way late to the party on this one, but this always drove me nuts too. I do like that reasoning, though.
What I personally did was basically give it the same Availability as Bone Density all across the board if you want to get it in game. Yeah, it increased the lesser and decreased the greater but it works pretty nicely. What I did was make it Restricted instead, solely because it added armor. Basically, since some body armor is ideally licensed, I decided making it able to be licensed was a fair trade for the extra armor bonus you get from it. Prices are otherwise the same.
So people can choose between A. Less invasive, more expensive, but no armor bonus but essentially non detectable, or B. Cheaper, more invasive, detectable a bit easier, but you get a little natural armor bonus to carry around with you, but you need to scrounge a license for it.
But yeah, this is one that me and my buddies have discussed awhile, as it ALWAYS stuck out as being a little off.
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Issue is, that since Bone density is Bioware, it is hardly detectable by scanners, so it has no significance to restrict it...it will pass anywhere but the closest examinations...which happens mostly on the autopsy table and means no further complications for runner ;)
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So people can choose between A. Less invasive, more expensive, but no armor bonus but essentially non detectable...
Emphasis, of course, is mine.
You are quite right that it doesn't add armor to your character, but it does give you bonus dice equal to its rating on your Damage Resistance test. Basically, it can't be reduced with Armor Penetration, but it also doesn't count towards the Phys/Stun threshold either.
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Oh, it does-bone lacing does the same, depending on the level. Honestly it was one of those handwaves trying to figure why one was one way and one was the other. It would probably just be easier to make them both fully legal. Or something like that.
Or, well, Bone Density gives bonus dice to resist damage. Bone Lacing gives both bonus dice and armor(if you get ceramic, aluminum, or titanium.) Plastic gives the DR but no armor(Maybe Plastic should be outright legal, thinking about it), and Kevlar gives no resistance but armor(maybe that can just have Armor like availability or whatnot plus a couple for being hidden.) I know Plastic, Kevlar and Ceramic are very hard to detect.
Bone Density is really good, though. I mean...honestly for us this would be more for the game itself. We nix any Availability limits at the start anyway. But what is decided is that Bone Lacing is, at the very least, able to be licensed.
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Oh, it does-bone lacing does the same, depending on the level. Honestly it was one of those handwaves trying to figure why one was one way and one was the other. It would probably just be easier to make them both fully legal. Or something like that.
Or, well, Bone Density gives bonus dice to resist damage. Bone Lacing gives both bonus dice and armor(if you get ceramic, aluminum, or titanium.) Plastic gives the DR but no armor(Maybe Plastic should be outright legal, thinking about it), and Kevlar gives no resistance but armor(maybe that can just have Armor like availability or whatnot plus a couple for being hidden.) I know Plastic, Kevlar and Ceramic are very hard to detect.
Bone Density is really good, though. I mean...honestly for us this would be more for the game itself. We nix any Availability limits at the start anyway. But what is decided is that Bone Lacing is, at the very least, able to be licensed.
That's yet another thing Bone Density has over Bone Lacing. If the GM isn't nixing Availability limits, you can't get Titanium Bone Lacing without Restricted Gear, whereas you can get Bone Density 4 without that quality.