I started to read the #4 preview the other day and think there is a mistake in this paragraph:
"Determine Initiative Scores for all the characters, critters, spirits, sprites, intrusion countermeasures (IC), and anything else involved in the fight (see Initiative, p. 159). The order in which things happen during the Action Phase is determined by Initiative Scores, going from highest first to lowest last. Initiative is fluid and changes both within a Combat Turn and between Combat Turns. Note that wound modifiers affect the Initiative Score
(see Changing Initiative, p. 160) as soon as the wound is inflicted."
I think it should read "during the Initiative Pass" or even better and righter "during the Combat turn"
Otherwise it does not make sense to me, reading what follows.
During his Action Phase, a character may take two
Simple Actions, though only one can be an attack action.
Would undefined terms be considered valid for errata? For example:QuoteDuring his Action Phase, a character may take two
Simple Actions, though only one can be an attack action.
Should this be followed with a definition of the game term "attack action", or at least a guideline for the meaning?
Don't see where it's necessary. You can make an attack as a Simple Action, and by it being used to attack, it becomes and attack action. Simple Common Sense at work.
The SR5 origins quick start rules mention "infiltration" + INT on Infiltration Test (p.4, under skill ratings) and again on p.7 under opposed test notation, interestingly saying to sneak past a guard, roll Infiltration +AGI [physical] (which, to my understanding is Sneaking, not Infiltration).
The SR5O core rules mentions Infiltration again on p.365 (under Motion Sensors, and under Sound Detectors).
So since the hardcopy book isn't coming out until August, is there any chance of these Errata you've found making their way in, or is it already in the process of being printed?
Just FYI, everything to this point is under discussion or already addressed.
So since the hardcopy book isn't coming out until August, is there any chance of these Errata you've found making their way in, or is it already in the process of being printed?
Printing a large run book like this is a lengthy process. The files went to the printer a couple months ago, sadly.
Page 224: "...sarariman..." should be salaryman.
It's that whole "l sounding like r" thing.
Sarariman is a lot older in usage than Shadowrun.
-k
Is it just me, or does "Sarariman" smack of racial.... something? I don't know, like making fun of the way someone talks based on where they came from? Salaryman seems more couth. Unless, of course, your 'runner is an uncouth douchebag, lol.I usually write "salaryman" when I put it into my work, but it's Shadowrun. That means it's got almost 25 years of inertia behind it, including 80s cyberpunk terms like "sarariman," so it often gets edited.
Page 88: In character generation, the highest characters can raise a skill is 6 (7 if they purchase the Aptitude quality).After character generation, the highest rating a skill can hit is 12 (13 with the Aptitude quality).Should probably be changed to clarify this.
p 130
This may not be an errata but it is unclear.
"The Automatics skill covers a specific subset of firearms
larger than handheld pistols but smaller than rifles. This
category includes submachine guns and other fully automatic
carbines."
It then lists Assault Rifles as a specialty.
p 130
This may not be an errata but it is unclear.
"The Automatics skill covers a specific subset of firearms
larger than handheld pistols but smaller than rifles. This
category includes submachine guns and other fully automatic
carbines."
It then lists Assault Rifles as a specialty.
I believe they mean Rifles that would be covered by Longarms, like sports rifles and sniper rifles, not assault rifles, which i believe they were covering by saying carbines.
That's why I said it might not be errata. It would be a lot clearer, especially to non gun experts, if they either said "includes submachine guns, assault rifles and other fully automatic carbines" or said "smaller than longarms."
Pg. 343, top of the Employer Table, on a result of 2, Secrety Society. Should read Secret Society.Or possibly Secretary Society. Even in the sixth world they're who really organizes things and handles all the legwork, even when it comes to hiring runners.
p65 (top right paragraph) says that trolls need to pay 50% more for all gear, with no mention of a modified cost for dwarves.
p420 under Size Costs says that equipment size modification costs for both metatypes is included in a Lifestyle cost modifier.
Which is correct?
- I couldn't find the definition of the augmented maximum, although it is mentioned in the "Increase Attribute" adept power for
example. Maybe my search function doesn't work.
• Temporarily coax extra performance from a
vehicle’s or drone’s components, increasing its
Sensor or Handling by +1 (if combined with bonuses
from Gearhead, the vehicle’s or drone’s
critical components completely burn out at the
end of the duration from being pushed well beyond
their limits; at that point, the vehicle or
drone becomes a big paperweight).
As a side note, assuming the latter rule is correct and you can purchase Used Alphaware at creationThere's no such think as used alpha anymore, used is its own seperate grade now.
First, when purchasing augmentations such as cyberware and bioware, each attribute rating (Mental and Physical) can only receive an augmentation bonus of up to +4.
Throughtout the book, the word "augmentation(s)" seems to only be used to refer to cyberware and bioware. Do magic, drugs, and other Attribute-enhancers count as augmentations, thereby counting toward this augmentation bonus?So something referencing augmented maximum, isn't refered as augmentation, really thats some scathing logic.
But if we’re going to be different than them—stronger, faster, and dare I say better—we need an edge. A few of us are lucky enough to get that edge through magic. For the rest of us, there are augmentations.
We've had a thread lock over this disagreement of how to interpret augmentation. Please do not start the same argument here.Throughtout the book, the word "augmentation(s)" seems to only be used to refer to cyberware and bioware. Do magic, drugs, and other Attribute-enhancers count as augmentations, thereby counting toward this augmentation bonus?So something referencing augmented maximum, isn't refered as augmentation, really thats some scathing logic.
Adept Power Points - It doesn't say anything about the Karma cost of Power Points, other than Mystic Adepts don't get any at start and need to buy it for 2 (patched to 5 in one of the posts) Karma/Power Point from the starting Karma. Does this apply to adepts as well if they want to increase their power points at start or buy some more later on? If yes, how much time it takes to increase and spend 1 Power Point?Normal adepts amount of powerpoints is equal to their magic rating, unless(or until) they take a powerpoint instead of metamagic on initiation then its magic+number of times they have taken power point on initiation.
Also, how mystic adepts gain power points during advancement isn't clear (http://rpg.stackexchange.com/q/27290/8915)Really?
There also appears to be no way to purchase higher grid access outside the one included in Lifestyle, although that may be intentional.Most likely intention in the sense that there just isn't room in the corebook for it.
The attacker takes a Complex
Action and makes an Opposed Test using her Combat
Skill + Agility [Accuracy] with all appropriate modifiers,
including the Ally in Combat modifier, against the op-
ponent’s Intuition. Hits from this test are added as a
positive dice pool modifier for the next ally to attack
the same opponent. The next ally can also use these
hits as a bonus on their own teamwork test, hoping
to build the amount of hits they are passing on to the
eventual attacker.
p65 (top right paragraph) says that trolls need to pay 50% more for all gear, with no mention of a modified cost for dwarves.
p420 under Size Costs says that equipment size modification costs for both metatypes is included in a Lifestyle cost modifier.
Which is correct?
I've been told it was decided it should just be the increased lifestyle cost. Paying extra for all gear, while it may be more realistic is just way to harsh.
Using a Simple Action, a character who is lying down or
prone may stand up. If the character is wounded and at-
tempting to stand, he must succeed in a Body + Willpow-
er (2) Test to do so (wound modifiers apply to this test).
On page 206, the chapter about first aid constitutes: The macimum damage healable with the first aid skill is equal to the skill's rating.
However, the example on the next page allows Full Deck to heal 4 boxes of damage with a skill rating of 1 and a specialization to combat wounds.
Gas-Vent System: Gas-vent recoil compensation systems vent a weapon’s barrel gases at a specific vector to counter barrel climb. Gas- vent systems can be built into machine pistols, SMGs, assault rifles, and machine guns. Installing them takes up the barrel mount and requires an Armorer + Logic (8, 1 hour) Extended Test; once installed, they cannot be removed. Weapons already equipped with a built-in gas-vent system cannot be equipped with an additional gas-vent system.
The gas-vent 2 system provides 2 points of recoil compensation; the gas-vent 3 system provides 3 points of recoil compensation.
Gas-vent system: Gas-vent recoil compensation sys- tems are barrel-mounted accessories that vent a weapon’s barrel gases at a specific vector to counter muzzle climb. Once installed, a gas-vent cannot be removed. Gas-vent systems provide a number of points of Recoil Compensation equal to their rating.
Aye, the example mentions that too. According to the chapter about first aid, the mental limit should be used. A medkit would increase this limit or it might just replace your skill. Does that mean, your skill rating is a second limit for the test and is the medkit rating overriding your skill limit? I think, the sentence about your skill as another limit just does not fit in and should be taken out, especially since the skill can be defaulted to logic-1.On page 206, the chapter about first aid constitutes: The macimum damage healable with the first aid skill is equal to the skill's rating.
However, the example on the next page allows Full Deck to heal 4 boxes of damage with a skill rating of 1 and a specialization to combat wounds.
P.450 "Add the medkit’s rating to your limit on First Aid tests" in the entry for Medkit. This killed me for the longest time too because this is the ONLY mention of this in the book other than the implication in the example.
Unconsciousness: When all of the available boxes in a track (Physical or Stun) are filled in, the character immediately falls unconscious and drops to the ground. If the Stun track is filled in, the character is merely knocked out. If the Physical track is filled in, however, the character is near death and will die unless stabilized.
p65 (top right paragraph) says that trolls need to pay 50% more for all gear, with no mention of a modified cost for dwarves.
p420 under Size Costs says that equipment size modification costs for both metatypes is included in a Lifestyle cost modifier.
Which is correct?
I've been told it was decided it should just be the increased lifestyle cost. Paying extra for all gear, while it may be more realistic is just way to harsh.
It also isn't clear if it's 50 or 100% for Trolls and 10 or 20% for Dwarves. The C-Gen text in multiple places have the 50/10 but the table lists the increase as 100/20% respectively.
Dwarf Racial: +2 dice for pathogen and toxin resistance, +20% increased Lifestyle costAnd:
Troll Racial: Thermographic Vision, +1 Reach, +1 dermal armor, +100% increased Lifestyle costs
When a character factors in racial modifiers for gear
costs (trolls have a 50 percent gear and Lifestyle cost
increase, dwarfs have a 10 percent increase in gear
costs)
Baby Monitort should be clarified, that it only tracks overwatch score accumulation while it is running. Otherwise there would be no reason to ever take the check OS simple action. You could always do 2 free action to load babymonitor check it and unload it (without any risk).
I think there are errata in Addiction Tests on page 414, but the text is difficult to follow, so it may just need clarifying.I already stated my interpretation in a different topic (http://forums.shadowruntabletop.com/index.php?topic=11865.0). As the rules state, even if you don't use the drug at all during a week, it still counts for the timer (traces are still in your system, or there's aftereffects, or something), although the Threshold will decrease by 1 - it isn't until the Threshold hits 0 that you're in the clear. In the case of Kamikaze, if you use it during week 1, and then don't use it during week 2, the Threshold will still be 2 at the end of week 2, which is when you make the Addiction Test.
I think that the intended rule is as follows. If you take a drug at least once in each of (11-Addiction Rating) consecutive weeks, you must make an Addiction Test. If that is right, then Kamikaze should either have an Addiction Rating of 10, or should not be given as an example of something that could get you hooked with a single dose, because at the moment you need at least two doses, in consecutive weeks.
However, if this is right, I am not at all sure what "The clock on this keeps ticking even if you skip a week" means. If you skip a week, you have not used the drug in more than one consecutive week, so you don't have to make any tests at all.
The source of the problem is that "Every time you use an addictive substance during (11 - Addiction Rating) weeks in a row" does not make sense. The above is just my best guess at what it is trying to say.
As a separate issue, the Magic chapter says that Focus Addiction is not a problem unless the total Force of active Foci exceeds your Magic Rating, but the Addiction rules do not reflect that.
I already stated my interpretation in a different topic (http://forums.shadowruntabletop.com/index.php?topic=11865.0).
As for Focus Addiction, the two segments seem compatible: if you use too many foci at the same time (the total Force exceeds your Magic), the GM's allowed to make the timer start ticking, with the total Force as Addiction Rating. This means that with 6 Magic, at 7 total Force you'd face an Addiction Rating of 7, so unless you stayed in the green 2 weeks in a row, you'd need to make a test at the end of week 4.
The most confusing bit about Focus Addiction is that the Addiction Rating can possibly go to 11+, which would mean it takes 0 weeks in a row to require a test. I assume it's 1 week in that case, but still.
Initiation says you use arcana Page 325 but for most adepts it doesn't make sense as arcana is all about formula and adepts have little use for formula.
Adepts don't have access to the Artificing skill, though (it's in the Enchanting skill group, which Adepts can't use per page 69), plus I assume researching a focus formula is out, since it states it "may be used by any magician of your tradition", and I don't think adepts have traditions, since page 308 simply states they use Body + Willpower to resist Drain, and the Drain attribute is all a tradition would be good for for adepts.Initiation says you use arcana Page 325 but for most adepts it doesn't make sense as arcana is all about formula and adepts have little use for formula.You mean other than for creating Weapon and Qi Foci up to the maximum that they can have bonded?
This is probably more along the lines of errata, but the skill "Infiltration" shows up a number of times in the book (notably pp. 362-63), but there is no longer a skill with this name. Presumably all of these references should be Sneaking.
Page 427:
The Steyr TMP says this:
Steyr TMP: This lightweight polymer-frame pistol is capable of full autofire, but its light weight makes it hard to control when firing on full auto. It comes equipped with a built-in top-mounted laser sight.
The accuracy for the weapon is only 4, not 4(5) like the laser sight would imply.
Don't know if it's been mentioned yet but...
Page 309 (Adepts)
Critical Strike (Skill)
Cost: 0.5 PP
This power improves a specific melee skill: either Unarmed Combat, Clubs, Blades, Astral Combat, or a particular Exotic Melee weapon skill. The specific skill is chosen when you buy the power. Increase the DV of your attacks with the selected skill by 1. Critical Strike is compatible with weapons and other adept powers. The power may be selected multiple times, each time for a different melee skill. (emphasis mine)
Page 117 (Character Archtypes, Brawling Adept)
Adept Powers: Critical Strike (Unarmed Combat) (2, 1 PP)
Are we allowed to purchase Critical Strikes multiple times for the same melee skill, or only once per melee skill?
It has, and that is a major point of contention.It's controversial, but the official word is that they nerfed Critical Strike at a point during the development process after the archetypes were made (and the archetypes have more mistakes in them: the Street Samurai is more than 200k over budget while others have over 10k unspent, some have R7 or R8 bows which apparently break the R6 limit, one has an R5 fake SIN which breaks the Availability limit, to name a few).
This seems like it should be errata'd: if you take Drain seperately, someone could take Adrenaline Boost 5, and add +10 to their Initiative score during their 'last' IP as often as they'd feel comfortable with, getting a ridiculous amount of IPs with very little risk of death (assuming that if you take an odd amount of Stun damage when your Stun track is full, the remaining 1 Stun damage doesn't remain to stack with any further Stun damage you may take, so if you take 3 Stun damage twice, it only becomes 2 Physical damage, not 3). As an example, an otherwise uninjured Troll with 9 Body and 5 Willpower (Stun Track 11, Physical Track 13, 9 Physical Overflow) who does this 25 times would have about a 98.58% of passing out, but only 0.011% of taking 1+ Physical Overflow, and a chance of less than 1 in a trillion of actually dying, because he resists 5 Drain 25 times instead of 125 Drain once.Q: Adrenaline Boost is a Free Action and makes you eat drain the next turn. No limit in use is mentioned. Can you use it in multiple Action Phases in the same Combat Turn? If so, does the drain stack up in one massive drain check, or will it be several independent drain checks?Barring errata, you can use it every Initiative Pass. You'd take the Drain from each use separately.
(Good point. Maybe they both should have Running and use it as both normal Running and Flight.)
The first sentence of the Activesoft description (p442), blatantly contradicts itself. Are Activesofts available for Physical Active skills or all non-Magic/non-Resonance active skills?Good catch, that would kill a bunch of character concepts. On top of that, it kind of makes the fluff make no sense if you can't do Technical skillsoft, etc. I'm guessing it's supposed to be anything but Magic/Resonance Skills.
Sometimes an opposed test has a threshold. Puppeteer is one of those times.p.47 could use a bit of editing. I think it's a good ruling.
Note that Opposed tests do not list a threshold.
Instructors cost Instruction*Cost of Spell. So to get Teacher's Assistant with 2 Skill to reduce the time it takes for me to learn Manabolt it will cost me $4000? Shadowrunners are in the wrong market.(instructor need 4+ skill)
on page 238, DATA SPIKE is a (complex Action) but on page 244 it listed on the table as a Simple, i take it this is a error right?
Can a person have a BTL addiction when they don't have cyberware? The Gunslinger adept archetype on pg 123 does.Yes. You can still use BTLs with trodes or nanopaste.
(plus a comlink with a sim module -possible also modded for hot-sim (or a cyberdeck)).Can a person have a BTL addiction when they don't have cyberware? The Gunslinger adept archetype on pg 123 does.Yes. You can still use BTLs with trodes or nanopaste.
For someone that is unfamiliar with what an air-burst is, this description might be read as this smartgun accessory only reduce the scatter distance and that it can not air-burst explosives.Before you errata this, you'd want to double-check they actually meant that. Aaron thinks they didn't though.
Just Trodes in SR5 for now as nanopaste is gone from core.Can a person have a BTL addiction when they don't have cyberware? The Gunslinger adept archetype on pg 123 does.Yes. You can still use BTLs with trodes or nanopaste.
Page 343 - Employer Table: Table Heading is wrong. It states "Location Type". Correct would be "Employer Type".Page 381 - Professional Rating 0 Thug Table - Limits are missing.
Page 381 - Professional Rating 0 Lieutenant Table - Condition Monitor is missing.
Page 384 - Professional Rating 6 Lieutenant Table - First line should state "Initiative" not "G"
Page 434 - Grenade Table is already included in Page 435 => Redundant information
Page 460 - Table "Basic Bioware". Entry "Bone density..." - Cost: Is "Raxing x 5,000" should be: "Rating x 5,000"
The Actioneer Business Clothes are listed as Auctioneer Business Clothes in the Index. LOL
I really hope that these things don't get messed with. Such nitpick things are not worth bothering with, and there are better things to spend time on.
They would have to move it to its proper place alphabetically, but I would hope that wouldn't be too tough. I just thought it was funny when I spotted it.I really hope that these things don't get messed with. Such nitpick things are not worth bothering with, and there are better things to spend time on.
Removing the letter "u" from one location takes no time at all when you've already got someone in there making changes.
pg. 363 hasThe rulebook describes the second step seperately for each type of maglock: keypad (rewire the circuits or use a sequencer), card reader (same as keypads, although you can instead use a passkey or forged keycard without removing the case), print scanner (don't open the case; instead, duplicate a print or use an authorized user's).
The first step to bypassing a maglock is to remove the case and access the maglock’s electronic guts.
There are no other steps listed.
pg. 186 states:
Running towards a foe makes it a lot more complicated
to read just how your attack is going to land,
and it puts a little extra force behind any strikes you
do make. This bonus is gained on any melee attack
made while the attacking character is considered
running (see Movement, p. 161). Along with receiving
this bonus, attackers can ignore the customary –2
penalty to skill checks made when running.
pg. 161 states:
The Movement Rates (Walk and Run) for each metatype
are noted on the Movement Table. This is the distance the character can move during their
Combat Turn. As soon as the character exceeds
their Walk rate, they are considered
Running until the end of the Combat Turn
and incur any penalties or benefits of running.
Running characters must use a Free
Action in each Initiative Pass they are considered
running.
Those items also have crack open the case listed as a step. I am sure there is a step missing as it should be possible to take down the maglock itself without having to deal with the keypad, it just means that the keypad will probably log an anomaly.pg. 363 hasThe rulebook describes the second step separately for each type of maglock: keypad (rewire the circuits or use a sequencer), card reader (same as keypads, although you can instead use a passkey or forged keycard without removing the case), print scanner (don't open the case; instead, duplicate a print or use an authorized user's).
The first step to bypassing a maglock is to remove the case and access the maglock’s electronic guts.
There are no other steps listed.
You make another Locksmith + Agility [Physical] (Maglock Rating x 2, 1 Combat Turn) Extended Test to rewire the maglock innards to not have to deal with the keypad.Those items also have crack open the case listed as a step. I am sure there is a step missing as it should be possible to take down the maglock itself without having to deal with the keypad, it just means that the keypad will probably log an anomaly.pg. 363 hasThe rulebook describes the second step separately for each type of maglock: keypad (rewire the circuits or use a sequencer), card reader (same as keypads, although you can instead use a passkey or forged keycard without removing the case), print scanner (don't open the case; instead, duplicate a print or use an authorized user's).
The first step to bypassing a maglock is to remove the case and access the maglock’s electronic guts.
There are no other steps listed.
Sounds like (AGIx2) + 1 meters. May not make "sense" but it's part of the abstraction.An absolute minimum distance to charge being 3 meters makes plenty of sense... people don't tend to really gain all that much more momentum than what they can build in a few good strides, which 3 meters (also known as 9 feet, 9 inches) provides room for...
10 feet isn't all that much space in my opinion, but that's neither here nor there really. The real weirdness is that someone with an AGI of 6 needs 13 meters to charge someone.Sounds like (AGIx2) + 1 meters. May not make "sense" but it's part of the abstraction.An absolute minimum distance to charge being 3 meters makes plenty of sense... people don't tend to really gain all that much more momentum than what they can build in a few good strides, which 3 meters (also known as 9 feet, 9 inches) provides room for...
When materialized, the spirit uses astral perception (its only perception) to perceive the physical world.
The spirit is dual-natured while it’s materialized, which means it exists simultaneously on the physical and astral plane, meaning it can see objects in both places
Not sure if it's errata, but I'd like to see some clarification on Charging. Specifically, what is the minimum distance one must move to be considered charging?
Sounds like (AGIx2) + 1 meters. May not make "sense" but it's part of the abstraction.
+1. Does an AGI9 character really have to run 19 (9*2+1) meters to be considered charging?
pg. 161 states:
The Movement Rates (Walk and Run) for each metatype
are noted on the Movement Table. This is the distance the character can move during their
Combat Turn. As soon as the character exceeds
their Walk rate, they are considered
Running until the end of the Combat Turn
and incur any penalties or benefits of running.
Running characters must use a Free
Action in each Initiative Pass they are considered
running.
I don't think I understand what you're saying. In SR terms, "rate" seems to be defined as:Sounds like (AGIx2) + 1 meters. May not make "sense" but it's part of the abstraction.Quote+1. Does an AGI9 character really have to run 19 (9*2+1) meters to be considered charging?
See, this was my first thought as well, that you had to actually exceed your walking rate in meters before you could charge. I was actually going to address this same thing when I first made the post, but as per the rules:Quotepg. 161 states:
The Movement Rates (Walk and Run) for each metatype
are noted on the Movement Table. This is the distance the character can move during their
Combat Turn. As soon as the character exceeds
their Walk rate, they are considered
Running until the end of the Combat Turn
and incur any penalties or benefits of running.
Running characters must use a Free
Action in each Initiative Pass they are considered
running.
As I re-read it, the term "rate" suggests that it's not saying that you actually have to move [Agi x2] +1 meters, you have to move at a rate of movement, or speed, of that many meters in a combat turn. This is the interpretation that I have concluded, because it makes more sense than an Agi 6 person needing 13 meters to charge, and a less agile Agi 2 only needing 5.
But I'd totally agree some rewording could help.
This is the distance the character can move during their Combat Turn.On the chart, it is defined for all metahumans as (AGIx2). Using word substitution on the next sentence would read:
As soon as the character exceeds the distance of (AGIx2), they are considered Running until the end of the Combat Turn and incur any penalties or benefits of running.
I don't think I understand what you're saying. In SR terms, "rate" seems to be defined as:Sounds like (AGIx2) + 1 meters. May not make "sense" but it's part of the abstraction.Quote+1. Does an AGI9 character really have to run 19 (9*2+1) meters to be considered charging?
See, this was my first thought as well, that you had to actually exceed your walking rate in meters before you could charge. I was actually going to address this same thing when I first made the post, but as per the rules:Quotepg. 161 states:
The Movement Rates (Walk and Run) for each metatype
are noted on the Movement Table. This is the distance the character can move during their
Combat Turn. As soon as the character exceeds
their Walk rate, they are considered
Running until the end of the Combat Turn
and incur any penalties or benefits of running.
Running characters must use a Free
Action in each Initiative Pass they are considered
running.
As I re-read it, the term "rate" suggests that it's not saying that you actually have to move [Agi x2] +1 meters, you have to move at a rate of movement, or speed, of that many meters in a combat turn. This is the interpretation that I have concluded, because it makes more sense than an Agi 6 person needing 13 meters to charge, and a less agile Agi 2 only needing 5.
But I'd totally agree some rewording could help.QuoteThis is the distance the character can move during their Combat Turn.On the chart, it is defined for all metahumans as (AGIx2). Using word substitution on the next sentence would read:Quote from: Word SubstitutionAs soon as the character exceeds the distance of (AGIx2), they are considered Running until the end of the Combat Turn and incur any penalties or benefits of running.
I'm not saying I agree with it, but I think it is fairly clear. I'm considering houseruling it to 5 meters.
This quality works differently for characters whoDoes this mean technomancers and the Awakened have additional effects from theis negative quality or alternate effects.
are technomancers or Awakened and therefore never
plan to take implants.
That's not wrong ...Yes it is.
They are listed under Cyberprograms...No they are not (that is the whole point)
All "Common Programs" and "Hacking Programs" use the word "Program" and not the word "Cyberprogram".
Reposted from FAQ thread as per Aaron's suggestion.Q: Hydraulic Jacks (page 457) add their Rating to your limit for certain physical tests, but the wireless bonus is a fixed +1 dice pool; is this a typo and should the wireless bonus also be dependent on Rating, or is the dice pool bonus intended to always be +1?
The rules definitely say that you get a flat +1 dice pool bonus. You might want to post in the errata thread, just to be sure.
[...]At our table we chose to get only +1 instead of +1/level Social Limit for Voice Control.
Voice Control (311) is strictly better than Improved Potential (Social) (309): Voice Control gives you +1 Social Limit per level, and other things, and comes in levels so that you can boost your Social Limit by your Magic Rating.
[...]
Voice Control (311) is strictly better than Improved Potential (Social) (309): Voice Control gives you +1 Social Limit per level, and other things, and comes in levels so that you can boost your Social Limit by your Magic Rating.
P 169 Multiple Attacks.He does. He may be fighting with 3, but he only multi-attacks two. "and decides to attack two of them." + 12 dice are split into 6 per target.
The last sentence for Multiple attacks states, "The total number of attacks you can make in a single action phase is limited to one half the attackers combat skill."
In the example Wombat is attacking three bouncers. He has a combat skill of 4. Shouldn't he only be able to attack two bouncers?
haven't seen this one ... sustaining foci aren't in the foci cost table, are they identical too/a subset of spell foci, or is this errataworthy?Page 319: "There are four types of spell foci." Page 320: Lists Counterspelling, Ritual Spellcasting, Spellcasting and Sustaining Foci.
((I reported that typo on the 5th of August. A good way to check is clicking on the Print button, you get the print version of the topic which you can easily search through.))
Unarmed
attack, 167
Melee, 167is in the index, however.
Page 205 says "as the defense part of the Opposed Test. Drones roll their Pilot + Autosoft [Handling]" but no where in the book says which Autosoft that is.
((Also, seems reasonable that only an autopilot and a rigger can use Full Defense. The controller might be able to use their own Full Defense instead.))
The Raven mentor spirit gives 1.5 power points worth of powers to Adepts, in the form of Traceless Walk and Voice Control 1. All other mentor spirits give .5 power points. Traceless walk should be removed, as Voice Control 1 is .5 power points.
The Raven mentor spirit gives 1.5 power points worth of powers to Adepts, in the form of Traceless Walk and Voice Control 1. All other mentor spirits give .5 power points. Traceless walk should be removed, as Voice Control 1 is .5 power points.
It's been brought up before - there's no certainty that it's an error, given the nature of the disadvantage.. I'd suggest starting up a discussion on the subject if you want to go into it.
The Raven mentor spirit gives 1.5 power points worth of powers to Adepts, in the form of Traceless Walk and Voice Control 1. All other mentor spirits give .5 power points. Traceless walk should be removed, as Voice Control 1 is .5 power points.
It's been brought up before - there's no certainty that it's an error, given the nature of the disadvantage.. I'd suggest starting up a discussion on the subject if you want to go into it.
At best it was intentional to give him those two powers but an error of power point cost; the writer thought both were .25 powers. There is no good reason one mentor spirit should have a 1 power point advantage over the rest and I doubt that factor was intended.
((Background Count is something that I don't expect in Core, that's Street Grimoire material. For Binding I can note that the German edition had Binding listed. Haven't checked submersion in that edition yet.))
Noted - but felt it necessary as according to the hotpatch was "superseded by the official Shadowrun, Fifth Edition errata"((Background Count is something that I don't expect in Core, that's Street Grimoire material. For Binding I can note that the German edition had Binding listed. Haven't checked submersion in that edition yet.))
Doesn't the core book say something about background count being explained in future supplements? I'm with you on this - background count is too complicated for the casual Shadowrun game, so there's no reason for it to go into core rules.
A device in the Matrix is any wireless device in the real world.The next paragraph and the final paragraph indicate that devices are not personas:
Devices have a smaller-than-person-sized icon in the Matrix... When is a device not a device? When it’s a persona!I feel the book has firmly established that devices and personas are distinct entities. The fact that there are special rules in the Complex Forms section that allows devices and personas to be considered interchangeable for the purpose of targeting adds to the belief.
When a person uses a device to connect to the Matrix, the device’s icon is subsumed by the persona’s icon, so it’s basically gone from the Matrix until the persona jacks out.Further clarifying the persona-device relationship. The device is gone, the persona remains.
Only devices can be slaves, masters, or part of a PAN.Which would totally break rigging and matrix defense by the decker if they can't be logged into the Matrix as a Persona at the same time they would need to access the PAN formed by the device they just used to form their persona.
In a PAN, the slaves must be devices, and the master must be a device or persona.I feel that would solve a lot of these problems as well as answering the question of whether a deck can be slaved to a commlink.
Bows and crossbows : what accessories can i mount on it?Here is what I find in the book:
I would said top mounted accessories like Imaging scope, laser sight, or the Smartgun system.
but their is no reference about it i can find in the book.
Projectile weapons can only take accessories designed for them specificallyThen there seems to be no accessory specifically designed for them... :(
Cost: This is the base price a character must pay to buy the item. If the item is legal, this is the standard price found at stores or online.
Note that rare and/or illegal items may cost less or more depending on certain black market variations (see (Il)legality, p. 419). Cost is also subject to local supply and demand, so the gamemaster should feel free to adjust it accordingly for certain settings.
i didn't find what action i have to use when firing a crossbow.
Neither a firing mode for crossbows. Or recoil stats.
i think it must be a SS mode, and a simple action to use it.
Crossbows
Modern crossbows are equipped with automatic reloading devices to allow for faster firing rates (reloading doesn’t require a Ready Weapon action, unless you happen to be using a museum piece). Crossbows also feature internal magazines (m) holding up to 4 bolts. Available in Light, Medium, and Heavy sizes.
Fire Bow
Firing a single arrow from a loaded bow is a Simple Action. To nock a single arrow, the character must use the Reload Weapon Simple Action.
well, M. Jonhson have been a nice guy, so i want to make him cookies.
As a good french shadowrunner, i have the artisan skill cooking at 6.
So i open my cooking book, page 145 : Build and repairs rules....
"Building or repairing an object is an Extended Test that the gamemaster may decide requires certain tools or facilities." ok, i have the kitchen i my high lifestyle, that's ok.
"The gamemaster assigns a threshold and interval for the Extended Test using the Task Difficulty Threshold table and Extended Test Thresholds table on p. 48." ok, that's up to the GM too, i hope i will no take more than 2-3 hours to make some cookies.
So i suppose it's up to the GM to decide the cost of ingredients...
Maybe some basic lines could help.
repairing cost like 1% of the price of the item by case to repair?
building from scratch a well known item, with blueprint for half the market price?
creating a new item, after months on studies just to create the blueprint? are you insane? i'm a shadowrunner, not a corpslave!
ok now i have my cookies, but i burned my outfit (yes a glitch)
So i need a new suit, but i'm low on cash, so i called my black market tailor... let's go P417QuoteCost: This is the base price a character must pay to buy the item. If the item is legal, this is the standard price found at stores or online.
What about paying less for a stolen stuff? you know, the everyday street business? the" fell off the back of a truck " items?QuoteNote that rare and/or illegal items may cost less or more depending on certain black market variations (see (Il)legality, p. 419). Cost is also subject to local supply and demand, so the gamemaster should feel free to adjust it accordingly for certain settings.
False : (Il)legality, p. 419) don't give a clue.
But i find something about it in "black market goods" P418 :
I just have to make a Negotiation + Charisma [Social] versus the item’s Availability Rating test. And i can pay more if i want,
what about paying less?
Crossbows
Modern crossbows are equipped with automatic reloading devices to allow for faster firing rates (reloading doesn’t require a Ready Weapon action, unless you happen to be using a museum piece). Crossbows also feature internal magazines (m) holding up to 4 bolts. Available in Light, Medium, and Heavy sizes.
And you didn't see this about firing a bow on page 165:Yes firing a bow, not a crossbow.
Fire Bow
Firing a single arrow from a loaded bow is a Simple Action. To nock a single arrow, the character must use the Reload Weapon Simple Action.
Crossbows follow all the same rules of bows, with the exception of their internal magazine.
Smartgun systems mention they can go on projectile weapons (internal, I believe, since there's no mount for external ones).Bows and crossbows : what accessories can i mount on it?Here is what I find in the book:
I would said top mounted accessories like Imaging scope, laser sight, or the Smartgun system.
but their is no reference about it i can find in the book.Quote from: Mount entry in the Gear Ratings glossary table p. 417Projectile weapons can only take accessories designed for them specificallyThen there seems to be no accessory specifically designed for them... :(
You asked a question about the reloading step, which I answered. You asked a question about the firing step, which I answered. And you also spammed the errata thread with some questions that weren't about errata, but rather about rules clarifications that are ultimately up to the GM (as you mentioned in your own post).i'm sorry if i bothered you with my questions.
You asked a question about the reloading step, which I answered. You asked a question about the firing step, which I answered. And you also spammed the errata thread with some questions that weren't about errata, but rather about rules clarifications that are ultimately up to the GM (as you mentioned in your own post).i'm sorry if i bothered you with my questions.
I don't remember asking a question about reloading a crossbow.
I don't remember asking a question about firing steps. But about firing modes.
I spammed the errata thread with some questions that weren't about errata, in your opinion, again i'm sorry if i bothered you with my questions. I just wanted to separate the different problems i have found in the book, not spamming for fun.
Now i will stop arguing with you, i think it's not a thread for that.
I was thinking about helping the SR community,not wearing a target for flaming practice.
Good Bye And Thanks For The Fish.
Smartgun systems mention they can go on projectile weapons (internal, I believe, since there's no mount for external ones).My bad, I missed this one :)
You asked a question about the reloading step, which I answered. You asked a question about the firing step, which I answered. And you also spammed the errata thread with some questions that weren't about errata, but rather about rules clarifications that are ultimately up to the GM (as you mentioned in your own post).
did a search of the errata boards for skill groups and did not see this show up so I thought I would post it just in case it has not been brought up.((Been noted and in the full errata document the text is corrected to what the table says, so ratingx2weeks.))
When dealing with training times the time listed in the text for skill groups is rating x 1 month, but when looking on the table it says rating x 2 weeks.
Thanks,
Red
((Been noted and in the full errata document the text is corrected to what the table says, so ratingx2weeks.))
((Easy enough to make it a dicepool penalty then, or make Assensing an Opposed Test resisted by purely Kinesics.))"No, you roll 2 fewer dice." "He's an Adept or Mystic Adept."
(Or, just add to the threshold needed to discover anything about an Adept with Kinesics.. since, the power actually says to add +1 to the difficulty, and threshold is a form of difficulty.)((Easy enough to make it a dicepool penalty then, or make Assensing an Opposed Test resisted by purely Kinesics.))"No, you roll 2 fewer dice." "He's an Adept or Mystic Adept."
"So 2 hits, that's... *roll* 1 net hit." "He's an Adept or Mystic Adept."
(Or, just add to the threshold needed to discover anything about an Adept with Kinesics.. since, the power actually says to add +1 to the difficulty, and threshold is a form of difficulty.)
Regardless of the number of bonded foci you have, only one focus may add its Force to a dice pool for any given test.
I have one question here, considering it wasn't in the errata form I saw.
In the cyberlimb section it says that all cybernlimbs have a strength and agility of 3.
Now this brings me to my question. Does this also apply for Orks, Trolls and Elves, considering they have a natural bonus to their statistics with agility and strength?
It wouldn't make much sense for a troll to get a cyberlimb if his default strength would be *lowered* by 2 points for example O_O
Couldn't find this one posted anywhere:
P323 under mentor spirits, Raven lists that it gives free Traceless Walk, and free level of Voice Control. This is 1.5 PP worth of abilities. Every other mentor spirit gives .5 PP worth of bonus abilities. It seems this must have been a mistake. It seems like they should drop Traceless walk.
Using Brute
Force to hop grids successfully doesn’t alert the grid or
its demiGOD the way most successful Attack actions do.
Using Brute
Force to hop grids unsuccessfully doesn’t alert the grid or
its demiGOD the way most unsuccessful Attack actions do.
Using Hack on the Fly
to hop grids unsuccessfully doesn’t alert the grid or its
demiGOD the way most unsuccessful Sleaze actions do.
Using Hack on the Fly
to hop gridsunsuccessfully doesn’t alert the grid or its
demiGOD the way mostunsuccessful Sleaze actions do.
I'm not saying you're wrong, but that really doesn't make a lot of sense to my brain.
*looks around for giabralter*
can i get an "official" ruling here as to whether or not it is truly intended for two actions that are almost identical to act in opposite manners?
And no offense Rhat, I trust you and all, but it's just one of those oddities where I feel strongly that this is a mistake and really won't feel better until I see something more "official".
Attack actions alert when successful, because you're obviously attacking. They don't alert when unsuccessful, because you instead damage yourself.Ok, this makes sense, maybe it was just the 2am fuzzies, I get it now after a bit of sleep.
Sleaze actions don't alert when successful, because you're trying to be stealthy. They do alert when unsuccessful, because you get spotted and marked.
Are skilljacks really supposed to cost Rating x 20,000?Excellent question! Seconded.
Given that Activesofts costs 5k per level... I would think yes on that. The real problem with those (in my mind) is that skillwires cost the same, when you have to have a skilljack to use them.
I don't know if this has been mentioned but in street grimoire on page 119 it reads "Critter form works like the Shapechange spell but only allows the subject to change into a specific non-paranormal animal. Each critter form is a different spell (Hellhound Form, Devil Rat Form, and so on).:"
When it should read "Critter form works like the Shapechange spell but only allows the subject to change into a specific non-paranormal animal. Each critter form is a different spell (Dog form, Horse form, and so on)."
None of t examples are non paranormal critters. Not a big thing but it will lead to confusion
Okay, so related question - does running still count as flight when materialized? Or, more accurately, are materialized spirits still unbound by gravity?
A spirit’s physical form is metahuman-sized or smaller and very obviously ethereal (there is no mistaking a spirit for something worldly). Its physical body is not subject to gravity—though most spirits stay close to the ground because that’s where all the action is—but it can be knocked around by other forces (which makes staying grounded handy at times)
Including Realistic Form?
Realistic form means the spirit CAN do things the way the form it has taken does things, whether that's eat, make toast, or chill your wine coolers. It doesn't mean they HAVE to do those things, or indeed that they lose their other abilities while in that 'realistic form'; it just means that if they want to do X the way their form Y does it, they can.
Which means yeah, your refrigerator might suddenly start floating around the damn squat.
(CRB p. 303 & 304)Spirit Initiative seems to follow separate rules. You always have some, that seem to be perfectly valid for typical initiative (Air) and then others where you just scratch your head (Man would be wrong for both calculations).
Assuming that the mental stats for all spirits isn't just F (earth, fire and man have modifiers)and that spirit Astral Initiative is calculated the same way as for mortal wouldn't the astral initiative for spirits of Fire and Man be ((f+1)x2)+3d6?
Standard weapon mounts may hold any assault rifle or smaller-sized weapon and 250 rounds of ammo.
There continues to be a discussion about what weapons can fit on a standard weapon mount and what weapons must use a heavy weapon mount.
The book says:Quote from: Shadowrun 5th Edition pg 461Standard weapon mounts may hold any assault rifle or smaller-sized weapon and 250 rounds of ammo.
Some think that the section in bold mean that shotguns and sniper rifles can only be used in heavy weapon mounts since they have a higher concealability rating than assault rifles (Shadowrun 5th Edition pg 420.) Others say that heavy weapon mounts are for heavy weapons (MG, Grenade Launcher, etc.) and all other weapons use standard weapon mounts. Could there be a clarification at some point on this? Thanks.
There continues to be a discussion about what weapons can fit on a standard weapon mount and what weapons must use a heavy weapon mount.
The book says:Quote from: Shadowrun 5th Edition pg 461Standard weapon mounts may hold any assault rifle or smaller-sized weapon and 250 rounds of ammo.
Some think that the section in bold mean that shotguns and sniper rifles can only be used in heavy weapon mounts since they have a higher concealability rating than assault rifles (Shadowrun 5th Edition pg 420.) Others say that heavy weapon mounts are for heavy weapons (MG, Grenade Launcher, etc.) and all other weapons use standard weapon mounts. Could there be a clarification at some point on this? Thanks.
Oh, how I wan this to be clarified. I am in the boat that most sniper rifles and shotguns should fit into a standard weapon mount, but guns like the Terracotta Arms sniper rifle and the Beretta 122 being exceptions. Granted, I am ok with any clarification.
Cultured bioware must be tailor-made for the body in which it will eventually find a home.
So you're going to go with pedantic, then.
No. There can be some major rejection issues, and some simply can't be effectively transplanted. It's about the only thing you can't get used.
Uneducated: Is it possible to purchase technical skill groups with this quality, or do they cost double? A strict RAW interpretation suggests that you can buy skill groups as normal, but skills cost double.
Range: The standard sensory range for a Detection spell is the spell’s Force x Magic in meters. For extended range Detection spells, the effective range of the new sense is Force x Magic x 10 meters. Note that any of the standard range spells listed below may be learned with an extended range instead (adding +2 DV).
Probably already asked, but can we clarify if power foci increase your effective rating for purposes of physical or stun drain?Definitely on the list.
Probably already asked, but can we clarify if power foci increase your effective rating for purposes of physical or stun drain?Definitely on the list.
I don't know about others, but I definitely intend on bringing up cyberlimbs as a whole.
Why wold a Str 5 / Agi 5 arm cost different amounts for different people? It is the same equipmentIs it, though? In-setting, cyber limbs obviously differ between metatypes. If you doubt that, then I'd like to see your list of troll characters with dwarf cyberlimbs, or vice versa.
I've seen this argument come up before, although oddly never during 4th edition's reign (which used a nearly identical system, except not all limbs were customizable, some just stayed 3/3).
The way I see it, cyberlimbs are machines. They are made up of motors and gyros (to simplify). The motors affect Str, and the gyros Agi. If you want stronger motors (more Str) it costs more money. Likewise, if you want more precise gyros (more Agi) it also costs more money.
Why wold a Str 5 / Agi 5 arm cost different amounts for different people? It is the same equipment, so everyone pays the same price. Yes, this can mean it might not be as advantageous for characters that already have high attributes. But there are still other reasons to have good Physical Stats (like Limits), so those characters who are just trying to shortcut with cyberlimbs don't get everything.
QuoteI'd like to see your list of troll characters with dwarf cyberlimbs, or vice versa.Hmm... a dwarf with cyber-troll-arms... 8)
QuoteWhy wold a Str 5 / Agi 5 arm cost different amounts for different people? It is the same equipmentIs it, though? In-setting, cyber limbs obviously differ between metatypes. If you doubt that, then I'd like to see your list of troll characters with dwarf cyberlimbs, or vice versa.
Well part of what you are paying for is just the customization (or at least that should be part of the cost) so having more than one base limb to choose from that have different base attributes should be a standard thing. Otherwise they should be having just one base gun, one base deck, one base car, etc. and make the customer pay to customize it from there. Instead we get lots of base models and still get to customize all that stuff to a greater or lesser extent. That's my two cents.
Name | Avail | Cost |
+Slim (+2 Agi, -1 Str) | +1 | +5000 |
+Hefty (+2 Str, -1 Agi) | +1 | +5000 |
+Troll* (+2 Str) | +1 | +7500 |
Yeah, cyberlimbs are definitely going to get a lot of discussion time.
Your Limit could still be different for your cyberarm if it "only" gives +3 on stats. Which would mean some one arm wonder would still be possible, right?Yeah, cyberlimbs are definitely going to get a lot of discussion time.
Since we are at the topic, I'd like to enter this radical proposal:
Do away with Enhancement and only use Augmentation
Every cyberlimb has to be fitted to the owner, so AGI and STR are automatically that of your natural body. Augmentations are now allowed to go up to 4 instead of 3, setting it in sync with the rest of the rules.
In one swoop you get rid of the Limit discussion, metatype discrimination and drastically reduce the occurrence of one arm wonders.
If you train and increase one of your stats the limb adjusts its settings so you are in synch with your body again.
Well part of what you are paying for is just the customization (or at least that should be part of the cost) so having more than one base limb to choose from that have different base attributes should be a standard thing. Otherwise they should be having just one base gun, one base deck, one base car, etc. and make the customer pay to customize it from there. Instead we get lots of base models and still get to customize all that stuff to a greater or lesser extent. That's my two cents.
Chrome Flesh added something sort of like that when they added Cyberlimb Optimization. Other than that, Cyberlimbs' only attributes are the Strength/Agility, and they are fundamentally supposed to be modified, so I don't think it is a good comparison to say that "having only one cyberlimb is like saying there is only 1 gun and everything is just customization"
But on that thought, I did think of a sort of compromise. Have a short listing of "customization bundles" for cyberlimbs, like:*Only available to Trolls
Name Avail Cost +Slim (+2 Agi, -1 Str) +1 +5000 +Hefty (+2 Str, -1 Agi) +1 +5000 +Troll* (+2 Str) +1 +7500
Slim/Hefty isn't actually a discount, it's just balancing out +2 to one attribute with -1 to the other at the cost of one attribute increase. Slim could be "for elves" and Hefty could be "for Ork/Dwarf/Troll"
Troll gives them a slight discount, but I don't think a complete removal of the "cyberlimb attribute tax" is in order here.
Beast Spirits have Noxious Breath, but don't have the Exotic Ranged Weapon skill they need to use it.
The magician mentally gives commands with a Standard Action, and the target is compelled to obey as if it were his own idea.
The description for Headware (SR5 451), states that the ware is normally installed in the head, but can be installed into cyberlimbs. Is it intentional that you can put, say, an olfactory booster in your hand, or was this supposed to be a reminder of how capacity works, and it can only be installed into a cyberskull?
The description for Headware (SR5 451), states that the ware is normally installed in the head, but can be installed into cyberlimbs. Is it intentional that you can put, say, an olfactory booster in your hand, or was this supposed to be a reminder of how capacity works, and it can only be installed into a cyberskull?
I'm using the latest reprint - The Master Index Edition. It states on p. 451 that items with a capacity cost may be installed into cyberlimbs instead. The chart on p. 453 has the essence and (where appropriate) capacity costs. The olfactory booster in your example does not have a capacity cost, so may not be installed into cyberlimbs.
Items that have a Capacity Cost [in brackets] may
be installed in cyberlimbs instead, costing Capacity
rather than Essence.
Was there ever a clear-up as to the type of action meant to issue a command for Control Thoughts spell?Quote from: SR5 Core book, Page 293The magician mentally gives commands with a Standard Action, and the target is compelled to obey as if it were his own idea.
Control Actions specifies a Complex Action needed to issue the command, which makes a little sense I guess since you use your own skills to make him do things.. is Control Thoughts/Mob Mind meant to only need a Simple Action, since you only implant the thought, and they obey in their own manner?
I don't think it has anything to do with the interrupt action to run away. First, because that action still doesn't have a roll involved, and second, because it wasn't printed until Run & Gun, while missiles/rockets are in the Core book...
However, I think it might be that Missile/Rockets are meant to still be dodged. Missiles and Rockets usually explode on impact, and personally, I think Rockets are generally slower than bullets. If you can dodge a bullet in the SR rules, why not a rocket?
Thinking conceptually, it seems pretty standard for a rocket/missile fired at a plane, and then have the pilot pull off some maneuver to try and shake the rocket. That's a thing, right?
A clarification on what counts as "unarmed" is required for the Killing Hands adept power (core rulebook, page 310), the Bone Lacing augmentation (core rulebook 454), Bone Density Augmentation (core, 459), Elemental Strike (Street Grimoire, 170), and Penetrating Strike (Street Grimoire, 173).
The confusion is over whether "unarmed" means any attack using the Unarmed Combat skill, and what of these things can stack with each other or other weapons that use the Unarmed Combat skill.
For instance; can you use Elemental Strike with a "Knucks" weapon? Does Bone Lacing or Bone Density Augmentation increase damage done with knucks? What about implanted weapons? Can you use Penetrating Strike with cyber spurs or a biospike?
Let's see
Three days old account
Really inflammatory language
Only content is complains
Lacking tact
Looks suspicioulsly like a...
Chalk you up as "whiny waste of skin" along with 20 other people that were/are on the forums....
Chalk you up as "whiny waste of skin" along with 20 other people that were/are on the forums....
And that´s the point where I realized that my hopes and wishes for this this franchise to somehow recover were all in vain...
Are you sure that there are even that many people left in this forum?
(The poster you are replying to is still a whiny brat, though...)
If you’re using
hot-sim, you get +3D6 (4D6 total) Initiative dice, and
a +1 dice pool bonus that applies to all Matrix test (in-
cluding Vehicle actions), but all biofeedback damage is
Physical damage.
When you are in hot-sim VR mode, you use your
Data Processing + Intuition as your Initiative and you get
+4D6 Initiative Dice (remember that any enhancements
or bonuses cannot take you past the maximum of 5D6
Initiative Dice). You receive a +2 dice pool bonus to all
Matrix actions, and you take biofeedback damage as
Physical damage.
I feel that the bar has been set so fucking low that it is possible for people who have become so utterly fucked up in the head that they accept pieces of shit like SR5 and related books as an actual real RPG. The fact that Trump was elected president supports my hypothesis. This world will fall to incompetency within 50 years. The 2006 movie Idiocracy played down the level of stupid that is to come so that people would find it believable.BEGIN MODERATOR VOICE
Under the Skills section: Arcana governs the creation of magical formulae used to create spells, foci, and all other manner of magical manipulations. Arcana is required to understand formulae that may be purchased over the counter or discovered by other means.
Yet, under the 'Learning Spells' section (p. 299), no mention of having to make any sort of Arcana test is mentioned. You buy the spell and learn it using either Spellcasting, Ritual Spellcasting or Alchemy.
Quote from: http://www.shadowrun.com/forums/discussion/31271/arcanaUnder the Skills section: Arcana governs the creation of magical formulae used to create spells, foci, and all other manner of magical manipulations. Arcana is required to understand formulae that may be purchased over the counter or discovered by other means.
Yet, under the 'Learning Spells' section (p. 299), no mention of having to make any sort of Arcana test is mentioned. You buy the spell and learn it using either Spellcasting, Ritual Spellcasting or Alchemy.
This seems to be an age-old issues, but I can't find any official response to it.
Is that true that a character need to have Arcana in order to understand the formulae they purchased?
Quote from: http://www.shadowrun.com/forums/discussion/31271/arcanaUnder the Skills section: Arcana governs the creation of magical formulae used to create spells, foci, and all other manner of magical manipulations. Arcana is required to understand formulae that may be purchased over the counter or discovered by other means.
Yet, under the 'Learning Spells' section (p. 299), no mention of having to make any sort of Arcana test is mentioned. You buy the spell and learn it using either Spellcasting, Ritual Spellcasting or Alchemy.
This seems to be an age-old issues, but I can't find any official response to it.
Is that true that a character need to have Arcana in order to understand the formulae they purchased?
My understanding is that you don't need Arcana to learn spells, there isn't an error in the Learning spells. The part in skills about Arcana being "necessary to understand formulae" is just a different context for the term understand. If you have a strange formula and want to identify it, you would need Arcana. Without it (presumably) a talismonger could rip you off by selling you a wrong formula. But that doesn't mean you need Arcana to learn the spell from it.
Let me use an analogy. Automotive Mechanic is necessary to understand how a car works, but that doesn't mean you need it to be able to drive.
My confusion is why Arcana needs to be an active skill instead of a knowledge skill. Are you able to make a spell cooler or create a new one from scratch using Arcana? If you can, are there rules for that?
Quote from: http://www.shadowrun.com/forums/discussion/31271/arcanaUnder the Skills section: Arcana governs the creation of magical formulae used to create spells, foci, and all other manner of magical manipulations. Arcana is required to understand formulae that may be purchased over the counter or discovered by other means.
Yet, under the 'Learning Spells' section (p. 299), no mention of having to make any sort of Arcana test is mentioned. You buy the spell and learn it using either Spellcasting, Ritual Spellcasting or Alchemy.
This seems to be an age-old issues, but I can't find any official response to it.
Is that true that a character need to have Arcana in order to understand the formulae they purchased?
My understanding is that you don't need Arcana to learn spells, there isn't an error in the Learning spells. The part in skills about Arcana being "necessary to understand formulae" is just a different context for the term understand. If you have a strange formula and want to identify it, you would need Arcana. Without it (presumably) a talismonger could rip you off by selling you a wrong formula. But that doesn't mean you need Arcana to learn the spell from it.
Let me use an analogy. Automotive Mechanic is necessary to understand how a car works, but that doesn't mean you need it to be able to drive.
Hello, i dont know if this has been post before but on page 133 of the corebook on the skill specializations of Freefall, there is the "Break fall" specialization. However there isnt any roll to break a fall in SR5. And the roll to resist falling damage is body + armor making break fall a specialization that doesnt apply to anything.
English is not my native language so what i mean be breaking fall is for example jumping from a 2 floor and using the environment to reduce the fall.
Hello, i dont know if this has been post before but on page 133 of the corebook on the skill specializations of Freefall, there is the "Break fall" specialization. However there isnt any roll to break a fall in SR5. And the roll to resist falling damage is body + armor making break fall a specialization that doesnt apply to anything.You are absolutely correct, the Free-Fall skill doesn't seemingly aid Falling as things are currently written. In fact, there aren't that many written uses for the Free-Fall skill at all; mostly just rappelling.
English is not my native language so what i mean be breaking fall is for example jumping from a 2 floor and using the environment to reduce the fall.
similarly, madicine has an specialization as "magical healing". I also find it really confusing. Is it means that if PC claimed that they somehow channel mana into the medicinal process, they would get the bonus? If true, that would be way too convenient.
Hello, i dont know if this has been post before but on page 133 of the corebook on the skill specializations of Freefall, there is the "Break fall" specialization. However there isnt any roll to break a fall in SR5. And the roll to resist falling damage is body + armor making break fall a specialization that doesnt apply to anything.You are absolutely correct, the Free-Fall skill doesn't seemingly aid Falling as things are currently written. In fact, there aren't that many written uses for the Free-Fall skill at all; mostly just rappelling.
English is not my native language so what i mean be breaking fall is for example jumping from a 2 floor and using the environment to reduce the fall.
The Falling Damage section does mention that the GM is free to modify damage based on environment, so I could easily see allowing a Free-Fall test for a character to "stick the landing better" in the previous edition, Gymnastics (just the skill rating) was added to the damage resistance test against Falling damage. Before looking it up, I would have suggested using Free-Fall as a sort of Teamwork Test (the hits from a Free-Fall test add bonus dice on the damage resistance).
There are several different options, but you didn't miss something.similarly, madicine has an specialization as "magical healing". I also find it really confusing. Is it means that if PC claimed that they somehow channel mana into the medicinal process, they would get the bonus? If true, that would be way too convenient.
That one is a slight mis-read. The specialization is Magical Health, not Healing. So it would (conceptually) apply if the medical trauma you are making a test on is magical in nature.
So - did we ever get any clarification from Gen Con... Did players get to take a defense test [of some sort] against grenades and indirect LOS (A) spells?
Yes we did: there's no defense test against grenades, indirect LOS (A) spells, and other "zones of damage." The defense against these attacks is to take precautions against them. This is really really really true, and been confirmed by multiple sources inside the company. So unless there's been a meeting somewhere to which I wasn't privy, you really really honestly and truly don't get to make a defense test against grenades or indirect LOS (A) spells.
So you don’t really need to be able to see the target—you canwhich people have used to argue that firing them through goggles or the like would result in blindfire penalties. I personally think that's ridiculous, but could the sentence maybe be changed to something like 'visibility modifiers like weapon attacks' or something?
cast these spells blindfolded or with artificial image enhancement—
as long as you’ve got a clear line of fire.
Unskilled Practitioner Fluency | Proficiency level 0 Proficiency level 1 Proficiency level 2 | No test possible Social Skill Limit is 1/2 Social Limit (round down) Social Skill Limit is the full Social Limit |
For simple functionality, you need to be able to slave your PAN Master to your teams PAN Master.I think it's clear that some people interpret it as not possible. But. If you do consider it possible, then the rules as they exist currently make it a terrible choice that only benefits the hacker targeting your gear.
No, that change was rejected.
Some of the shifter errata was not given final approval. I was overruled; the line developer has that option. It's still listed as "Provisional" in the forum post, and will remain so, but ultimately it wasn't my call.
"Provisional" is equivalent to "I think it should be like this, but it ain't."So, how do we know what has been rejected for some reason (kinda weird at times when the change is in the european versions), and what has simply not found it's way in for one reason or another?
If you're using hot-sim, you get +3D6 (4D6 total) Initiative dice, and a +1 dice pool bonus that applies to all Matrix test (including Vehicle actions), but all biofeedback damage is Physical damage.
That's been asked and discussed since the book came out. There's been plenty said. A resolution came, but I can't remember how the dust settled.Something something Aaron something have to wait for a new answer and I don't know if it ever came.
I'm not sure if this the right place to bring this up but I would like to suggest the following. CRB p. 183, Gunnery, second sentence. Change "Vehicle-mounted weapons are fired using Gunnery + Agility [Accuracy] for manual operation, like door guns on mounts, or Gunnery + Logic [Accuracy] for remote operated systems." to "Vehicle-mounted weapons are fired using Gunnery + Agility [Accuracy] for manual operation and remote control, or Gunnery + Logic [Sensor] for remote operated systems targeting with a sensor Lock.I disagree with forcing the temporary Missions ruling on us without debate and proper clarification. I hope the errata team will do a detailed RAI debate there and adjust the RAW to not force every Rigger to stat Agility even in VR. AR Agility, VR Logic and decent info on when you need a sensor lock makes more sense given the fluff and doesn't force Riggers into Agility.
I'm not sure if this the right place to bring this up but I would like to suggest the following. CRB p. 183, Gunnery, second sentence. Change "Vehicle-mounted weapons are fired using Gunnery + Agility [Accuracy] for manual operation, like door guns on mounts, or Gunnery + Logic [Accuracy] for remote operated systems." to "Vehicle-mounted weapons are fired using Gunnery + Agility [Accuracy] for manual operation and remote control, or Gunnery + Logic [Sensor] for remote operated systems targeting with a sensor Lock.I disagree with forcing the temporary Missions ruling on us without debate and proper clarification. I hope the errata team will do a detailed RAI debate there and adjust the RAW to not force every Rigger to stat Agility even in VR. AR Agility, VR Logic and decent info on when you need a sensor lock makes more sense given the fluff and doesn't force Riggers into Agility.
I'm not sure if this the right place to bring this up but I would like to suggest the following. CRB p. 183, Gunnery, second sentence. Change "Vehicle-mounted weapons are fired using Gunnery + Agility [Accuracy] for manual operation, like door guns on mounts, or Gunnery + Logic [Accuracy] for remote operated systems." to "Vehicle-mounted weapons are fired using Gunnery + Agility [Accuracy] for manual operation and remote control, or Gunnery + Logic [Sensor] for remote operated systems targeting with a sensor Lock.I disagree with forcing the temporary Missions ruling on us without debate and proper clarification. I hope the errata team will do a detailed RAI debate there and adjust the RAW to not force every Rigger to stat Agility even in VR. AR Agility, VR Logic and decent info on when you need a sensor lock makes more sense given the fluff and doesn't force Riggers into Agility.
This is a perfect illustration of the problem. You can't create a Rigger and go to a game like Missions because you don't know how the GM is interpreting the rules for Gunnery. It needs an official clarification one way or the other. The majority of Agents I have asked about it say Agility in all cases except with a sensor lock (which happens to be what I believe as well).
I’m in complete agreement about riggers should be using mental attributes and reaction when in VR.And SRM apparently is leaning towards only-sensor-locks, which unfortunately means my wife will never play a Rigger in an Open Event again.
It’s probably an even spilt between the camps however.
I think the argument for Agility goes like this:The Argument in the book is you make the gestures.
Being able to shoot someone, or pick a lock, or not step on a twig when sneaking is a function of getting your meat-body to do what your mind wants. The mind wants these target hairs to line up and the trigger to be pulled before the target moves. That is Agility. Does your meat-body do what your mind wants in an effective manner?
When you are rigging you just substitute the word "car" for the word "meat-body". Hence Agility. The car becomes your meat body.
So you use the car's Agility for gunnery? Because in most cases when you are performing tasks, you use the vehicle's attributes for tests, not the physical attributes of the rigger. My primary argument for Logic is that using Gunnery through VR is by definition remote.I think the argument for Agility goes like this:The Argument in the book is you make the gestures.
Being able to shoot someone, or pick a lock, or not step on a twig when sneaking is a function of getting your meat-body to do what your mind wants. The mind wants these target hairs to line up and the trigger to be pulled before the target moves. That is Agility. Does your meat-body do what your mind wants in an effective manner?
When you are rigging you just substitute the word "car" for the word "meat-body". Hence Agility. The car becomes your meat body.
In AR you can make gestures and use your Agility. VR this explanation fails.So you use the car's Agility for gunnery? Because in most cases when you are performing tasks, you use the vehicle's attributes for tests, not the physical attributes of the rigger. My primary argument for Logic is that using Gunnery through VR is by definition remote.I think the argument for Agility goes like this:The Argument in the book is you make the gestures.
Being able to shoot someone, or pick a lock, or not step on a twig when sneaking is a function of getting your meat-body to do what your mind wants. The mind wants these target hairs to line up and the trigger to be pulled before the target moves. That is Agility. Does your meat-body do what your mind wants in an effective manner?
When you are rigging you just substitute the word "car" for the word "meat-body". Hence Agility. The car becomes your meat body.
I think the argument for Agility goes like this:
Being able to shoot someone, or pick a lock, or not step on a twig when sneaking is a function of getting your meat-body to do what your mind wants. The mind wants these target hairs to line up and the trigger to be pulled before the target moves. That is Agility. Does your meat-body do what your mind wants in an effective manner?
When you are rigging you just substitute the word "car" for the word "meat-body". Hence Agility. The car becomes your meat body.
That's a good argument. But the counterargument here is that Agility is your meat-body's ability to carry out instructions from your mind, not your mind's ability to give them. Agility is intrinsic to your meat-body. When the vehicle replaces your meat-body, your Agility is no longer relevant.
Reaction hasThat's a good argument. But the counterargument here is that Agility is your meat-body's ability to carry out instructions from your mind, not your mind's ability to give them. Agility is intrinsic to your meat-body. When the vehicle replaces your meat-body, your Agility is no longer relevant.
The problem with that counter argument is that it argues away Reaction Enhancers having any effect on Jumped In / VR Rigging, and for that matter, even using Reaction for piloting when Jumped In / VR.
Either the Riggers Meat Body plays a role (using Reaction), or it doesn't (don't use Agility for Gunnery).
Can't have it both ways and be sensible.
Reaction has always been used for VR vehicle tests, and is the one big special exception. So that isn't a valid argument, since it didn't come with extra exceptions in past editions.
So you are claiming that it was a mistake in SR4 that you used Reaction but not Agility, so SR5 using Reaction but not Agility would be wrong?_? If so, okay, guess there's no point to a public debate on this, since precedence doesn't matter. Bye.Reaction has always been used for VR vehicle tests, and is the one big special exception. So that isn't a valid argument, since it didn't come with extra exceptions in past editions.
Wrong.
In past editions, except maybe 4th, Riggers never went VR for rigging. They just became the machine.
And you can't call upon the mistakes of previous editions to justify the mistakes of the current edition.
So you are claiming that it was a mistake in SR4 that you used Reaction but not Agility, so SR5 using Reaction but not Agility would be wrong?_?
I´m leaning heavily towards the Mental Attributes + Reaction, but the most important thing is that we get a clear solution here.
Even "Agility for Shooting always and everywhere" would be better than "LOL whatever ::)"
A solution like this:
- Agility for manual targetting (including remote control)
- Logic for Sensor targetting (active and passive)
would be fitting as well, however in this case it´s even more important to give the Signature Table an Overhaul and get Sensor Targetting out of the "too shitty to ever use"-corner. All possible targets except large vehicles*. have a negative modifiers right now, including metahumans at a whooping -3. A -3 modifier already means that a basic patrol Drone loadout (Pilot 3, Clearsight 3) is pretty much unable to do its job right now. Not to mention active targetting, which is almost guaranteed to result in a wasted action. Shouldn´t Metahumans and Critters be pretty easy to detect? Think about body heat, breathing, heartbeat... (It´s also weird that there are 3 seperate lines with the same -3 Modificator. Could it be that this table isn´t actually RAI, but an overlooked editing hickup? ???)
Anyways, more reasonable would be something like this:
+3 Oversized Vehicles and Critters (i.e. Dragons), Fire Spirits (makes sense, right?)
+1 Large Metahumans (i.e. Trolls), Critters and Drones, Cars
+0 Medium-Sized Metahumans (i.e. Elves, Orks Humans), Critters and Drones, Motorcycles, Other Spirits
-1 Small Metahumans (i.e. Dwarfs), Critters and Drones
-3 Minidrones, Very Small Critters
-6 Microdrones
And also a +1 Modificator for Targets with spotted wireless Equipment/Presence.
*And Spirits, which are missing from the table whatever reason. Probably means that there is no modifier, but with the way spirits are "balanced" right now, I wouldn´t be surprised if we get an Errata that explicitly states that Spirits can´t be targetted by sensors at all ::)
Hm, is this really still disputed?
Going through the book we have gunnery rules mentioned at:
...
If you read it one after the other it becomes pretty clear: The base assumption is that you are handling a mounted weapon with your own hands and eyes - and use agility (p.146)
If you are not with your hands on the weapon you are controlling it remotely, therefore you use Logic instead of Agility (p.183)
Also, if you are using sensors to target, you use Logic (p.184)
The Control Device text is the one causing the confusion. If you look at the bolded text you see, that you still can use the rules for remote operations and sensor targeting - because if you are in VR, your normal operation will be using sensors to target your gun and move the turret remotely instead of manually.
p.266 only clarifies that VR will give you boni to your gunnery tests
Hm, is this really still disputed?Your assumption that vehicle-mounted weapons also include drone-mounted weapons is not valid because it is in direct conflict with the example on p. 238
The base assumption is that you are handling a mounted weapon with your own hands and eyes - and use agility (p.146)No, the base assumption is that you use the same skill, attribute and limit no matter if you are using manual operation, remote operation via AR, remote operation via VR or jumped in.
The skill table around page 92 has the skill group name for the Resonance skills listed as something else (I forget what).
Also, in the Character Advancement section (starts somewhere around page 108), the table for Skill Group Improvement Costs doesn't match the formula from the text.
So, your argument is that if you remote control a Lynx you have to use Agility, but if you remote control a dodge scooter with a weapon mount you can use Logic, because one is a drone and the other a vehicle?You use Reaction for controlling both the vehicle and the drone...
The control device example is one of the many SR5 example texts that are just badly edited.This might or might not be true.
And it clearly speaks about the AR case where you ...Unless otherwise specified you would use the same skill, attribute and limit for manual, AR, cold- or hot-sim VR or VR while jumped in.
Which means you can only aim by using sensors ...Not sure I fully understand the reasoning why you must use sensor targeting from cold- or hot-sim VR and while jumped in. Did you find any examples or rules to support this?
Your whole argument is based on a rules text that isn't even about that specific topic and also leaves a whole lot of room for interpretation.My whole argument is that this is the only reading where none of the existing examples and rules conflict. I am the first to admit that if one or more of the examples or rules are changed then my whole argument will fall.
The lock on thing I assume what you are referring to?I was thinking about the rules text;
Isn't it just simpler to assume the example is wrong?It sure is, but since we asked for errata, clarification or SRM ruling without any response for the last 5 years or so I will go ahead and assume that rules and examples are indeed correct and that we are just reading it wrong.
Either the example is wrong and there is no difference between vehicle-mounted gunnery and drone-mounted gunnery (= both always use Logic)Or the example is right, and is illustrating how to use Control Device to do things the way you normally would.
Or -
SR5 p. 238 Control Device- And what is the "normal " way to perform gunnery? Manually.
The dice pool of any test you make using this action uses the rating of the appropriate skill and attribute you would use if you were performing the action normally
Which mean you [always] use Gunnery + Agility (unless otherwise noted).- What is the exception that's noted? Remotely operated vehicles.
drone: An unmanned vehicle that can be controlled via direct wireless link or through the Matrix.A drone is an unmanned Vehicle.
- Core 215
I really want to read the errata team review. I think it would be an unfortunate waste to lose that data.
I hope the errata team post their work, because I dont think Catalyst do it.
Most probably that would be a breach of our NDA to post stuff.
Most probably that would be a breach of our NDA to post stuff.
That's true. And it could be a PDF on the forums, but without CGL's involvement, it would not get to CGL's website nor portals like DriveThruRPG. Also, books/pdfs would not be updated with the errata and re-released on such sites.Most probably that would be a breach of our NDA to post stuff.
Most if not all NDAs have a lifespan.
"Most frequently, the duration used for non-disclosure agreements are 2, 3, and 5 years"
After said time CGL would not be able to stop them from releasing the Errata.
So even if CGL decides to table the 5th ed Errata they are on a ticking clock.
And at the end of that time the Errata team would be able to release their work without needing CGL permission.
That's true. And it could be a PDF on the forums, but without CGL's involvement, it would not get to CGL's website nor portals like DriveThruRPG. Also, books/pdfs would not be updated with the errata and re-released on such sites.Most probably that would be a breach of our NDA to post stuff.
Most if not all NDAs have a lifespan.
"Most frequently, the duration used for non-disclosure agreements are 2, 3, and 5 years"
After said time CGL would not be able to stop them from releasing the Errata.
So even if CGL decides to table the 5th ed Errata they are on a ticking clock.
And at the end of that time the Errata team would be able to release their work without needing CGL permission.
I really want to read the errata team review. I think it would be an unfortunate waste to lose that data.
I hope the errata team post their work, because I dont think Catalyst do it.
It's just that since his posting in May, a new edition surprised us by becoming a thing and 5e errata has gone to the back burner and 6we errata has been our priority.
I really want to read the errata team review. I think it would be an unfortunate waste to lose that data.
I hope the errata team post their work, because I dont think Catalyst do it.
As Jayde Moon said upthread, it's actually not dead. It's just that since his posting in May, a new edition surprised us by becoming a thing and 5e errata has gone to the back burner and 6we errata has been our priority.
So, just releasing this "as is" now instead of in a few years, when no one cares anymore and the work will be wasted, would probably be the better solution for both the players and the members of the errata team.
So, any chance that the 5e stuff will get to the public?Here you go (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Q4N0xM72-lUNScD4vr_-Xi8D9MaRYfPM/view)