[FastJack]

Actually no. You can upgrade 1 spec to expertise and after that buy a second spec. But that's it. One spec max, one expertise max, per skill.

Except for Exotic Weapons, where you have to purchase a Specialization for each exotic weapon (type) you want to use. So in theory, you could have one expertise and infinite specializations for exotics.

Actually, you can't choose an expertise for Exotic Weapons. It's the exemption of the skills,

[Hephaestus]

Actually no. You can upgrade 1 spec to expertise and after that buy a second spec. But that's it. One spec max, one expertise max, per skill.

Except for Exotic Weapons, where you have to purchase a Specialization for each exotic weapon (type) you want to use. So in theory, you could have one expertise and infinite specializations for exotics.

Actually, you can't choose an expertise for Exotic Weapons. It's the exemption of the skills,

I missed that bit in the Exotic Weapons skill. So, while you have to invest skill points into a separate skill for using exotic melee and ranged weapons (completely divorced from Firearms and Close Combat), and you have to spend an extra 5 karma a whack for Specializations, you cannot take an Expertise for the weapons you're forced to already spend extra karma for? Wow...

It seems like this could have been handled far more easily by making exotic weapons require a specialization within Firearms or Close Combat to be able to use them. That would have allowed a number of things:
- Players would stick to two skills instead of three (streamlining).
- It would make it a more meaningful choice to use an exotic weapon because players would have to use one of the two specializations/expertises in the given skill.
- It would also prevent a player from only taking points in the Exotic Weapons skill and running around with monofilament whips, drug guns, and grenade/rocket launchers all the time.

[FastJack]

Using a firethrower is not the same as shooting a gun, so, realistically, it can't be a specialization of a skill that has nothing to do with it. But you can't just let players choose Exotic Weapons and firing off missile launchers, flamethrowers, or using whips because they put a few ranks in the skill, so a specialization is needed for each unique weapon.

As for forcing a specialization on Firearms/Close Combat for an exotic weapon, you'd then be forced to allow them to take an expertise on a specific weapon. Now someone with Firearms 6 can spend 10 karma to get 10 + Agility dice to use a rocket launcher. Pretty cheap cost for a powerful weapon.

[Shinobi Killfist]

Using a firethrower is not the same as shooting a gun, so, realistically, it can't be a specialization of a skill that has nothing to do with it. But you can't just let players choose Exotic Weapons and firing off missile launchers, flamethrowers, or using whips because they put a few ranks in the skill, so a specialization is needed for each unique weapon.

As for forcing a specialization on Firearms/Close Combat for an exotic weapon, you'd then be forced to allow them to take an expertise on a specific weapon. Now someone with Firearms 6 can spend 10 karma to get 10 + Agility dice to use a rocket launcher. Pretty cheap cost for a powerful weapon.

Writing sheet music isn't the same as a con, but here we are.

So can someone explain how exotic weapon works.  Do you have to take the skill multiple times and specialize each time, once and it requires a specialization for each weapon, what? Also did they remove all the almost gun weapons from exotic weapons like the ares squirt, because that's as close to a rifle as a pistol is and pistols and rifles use the same skill.

[Hephaestus]

Using a firethrower is not the same as shooting a gun, so, realistically, it can't be a specialization of a skill that has nothing to do with it. But you can't just let players choose Exotic Weapons and firing off missile launchers, flamethrowers, or using whips because they put a few ranks in the skill, so a specialization is needed for each unique weapon.

As for forcing a specialization on Firearms/Close Combat for an exotic weapon, you'd then be forced to allow them to take an expertise on a specific weapon. Now someone with Firearms 6 can spend 10 karma to get 10 + Agility dice to use a rocket launcher. Pretty cheap cost for a powerful weapon.

You're already forcing me to take a Specialization to use my Exotic Weapon of Choice (which I will now call my EWoC), so I'll get a +2 dice pool bonus regardless. The difference is that instead of using up a Firearms Specialization/Expertise to to get +2/+3 dice on my single EWoC (which would limit what other firearms I can specialize in), I now have a skill entirely dedicated to my little EWoC village of crazy powerful weapons that are all have +2 dice pool bonuses.

And since dart guns no longer require a license to own, I can open carry a dart pistol/rifle while  keeping my monofilament whip safely concealed in my lined coat, right next to my Antioch II grenade launcher and bandolier of grenades.

All 3 of those weapons use the same skill, and would only cost me 15 karma for the three out of unlimited Specializations. And if I wanted to run lean on skill points, I could invest 2 points somewhere else and still have a strong dice pool because of all the +2 dice.

[Hephaestus]

So can someone explain how exotic weapon works.  Do you have to take the skill multiple times and specialize each time, once and it requires a specialization for each weapon, what? Also did they remove all the almost gun weapons from exotic weapons like the ares squirt, because that's as close to a rifle as a pistol is and pistols and rifles use the same skill.

You take ranks in the Exotic Weapons skill as per usual. But in order to use an exotic weapon, you then have to take a Specialization in Exotic Weapons for that weapon (or weapon type, if your GM isn't a dick) for 5 more karma. This also means that EW is the only skill that breaks the one Specialization and one Expertise limit. The trade-off is that while you can take multiple Specializations, you cannot take any Expertises.

Example:

Sam the wired up Street Sam (say, AGI 6[8]) wants to use a grenade launcher. He takes 4 ranks in Exotic Weapons, and then has to spend 5 karma to take the Specialization (Grenade Launchers) to be able to use it effectively. This means he gets a dice pool of 8+4+2=14 dice. He's gonna make it rain (death)!

And at current, there are 10 Exotic Weapons, which could be broken down into 5 Specializations: Whips, Super Squirt, Dart Guns, Grenade Launchers, and Rocket Launchers.

[Shinobi Killfist]

So can someone explain how exotic weapon works.  Do you have to take the skill multiple times and specialize each time, once and it requires a specialization for each weapon, what? Also did they remove all the almost gun weapons from exotic weapons like the ares squirt, because that's as close to a rifle as a pistol is and pistols and rifles use the same skill.

You take ranks in the Exotic Weapons skill as per usual. But in order to use an exotic weapon, you then have to take a Specialization in Exotic Weapons for that weapon (or weapon type, if your GM isn't a dick) for 5 more karma. This also means that EW is the only skill that breaks the one Specialization and one Expertise limit. The trade-off is that while you can take multiple Specializations, you cannot take any Expertises.

Example:

Sam the wired up Street Sam (say, AGI 6[8]) wants to use a grenade launcher. He takes 4 ranks in Exotic Weapons, and then has to spend 5 karma to take the Specialization (Grenade Launchers) to be able to use it effectively. This means he gets a dice pool of 8+4+2=14 dice. He's gonna make it rain (death)!

And if he wants to use mono filament whips also that is just another specialization?

If so I'd of preferred it be a 5 point quality for each exotic weapon group and it ties to the more appropriate combat skill either firearms or close combat. So like flamethrower would be labeled firearms(exotic), so if you take the positive quality exotic weapon(flamethrowers), you can use your firearms skill with flamethrowers. Dart guns might be under athletics, whips under close combat etc. If you want to specialize of get expertise in them go for it, but you first need the positive quality.

[FastJack]

Yes, it's easy to take Exotic Weapons skill and boot it up to 3 to get the specialization bonuses for each EWoC. But you the player has to figure if that worth taking the skill upgrades away from firearms. And sure, dart pistols are legal to carry without a license, but that's because they do 1P damage. Now the toxins you put on the darts are going to probably start at 7(I) availability. And do you think if you're carrying around a dart pistol/rifle, the Law ain't going to check to see if you have illegal substances on the darts?

Also, in specializations for Exotics, don't forget lasers!

[Hephaestus]

Yes, it's easy to take Exotic Weapons skill and boot it up to 3 to get the specialization bonuses for each EWoC. But you the player has to figure if that worth taking the skill upgrades away from firearms. And sure, dart pistols are legal to carry without a license, but that's because they do 1P damage. Now the toxins you put on the darts are going to probably start at 7(I) availability. And do you think if you're carrying around a dart pistol/rifle, the Law ain't going to check to see if you have illegal substances on the darts?

Also, in specializations for Exotics, don't forget lasers!

Check the errata, chummer. All but 2 of the the toxins (Gamma-Scopolamine and Seven-7) and 2 of the drugs (Bliss and Deepweed) are legal with a license, and only one is outside the ability to get at chargen (Seven-7).

Narcoject is availability 4L and cost 50¥ per dose. Expensive if you get into a protracted firefight, yes, but mostly legal and fairly easy to obtain.

[FastJack]

Ah, you're correct. I haven't gotten that far back in my notes for the book.

[Hephaestus]

Ah, you're correct. I haven't gotten that far back in my notes for the book.

Its all good, and technically those tables aren't in the book. 

[Michael Chandra]

"illegal gear with a rating of 7 or higher" means Gamma-Scopolamine also is illegal in chargen.

[Hephaestus]

"illegal gear with a rating of 7 or higher" means Gamma-Scopolamine also is illegal in chargen.

You are correct sir. That makes 2 drugs/toxins out of chargen range, while I can still walk around sleep darting people with my Narcoject license on a lanyard around my neck.

[Icharbezol]

My question involves the cost of purchasing additional Knowledge and Language skills beyond the initial free ones provided by Logic at chargen.

Does it cost 3 Karma for each, as it does during play? Or does it cost 1 Karma each as active skills and attributes do?

[Michael Chandra]

Uhm where do you get 1 karma from exactly?