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Unarmed Combat/Martial Arts

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anotherJack

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« Reply #30 on: <09-08-10/1106:12> »
Forget humans, take an ork :p Now we're talking !
Me am french, me am not speaking good english, but me am trying to correct this.

FastJack

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« Reply #31 on: <09-08-10/1106:21> »
And Adepts can get even nastier. Critical strike, elemental strike, combined with some maneuvers...
Welcome to my character KageZero... (Mystic Adept on top of it)

Usda Beph

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« Reply #32 on: <09-08-10/1106:33> »
Minotaur:Usda Beph
Bone Density(4) BOD 9(13)
Muscle Aug(4) STR10 (14)
Muscle Toner(4) just to be sick 3(7)

Munchie? Yes but with all the Pretty elves in our Party we needed a bulldozer. ;D
Yeah, I'm A Minotaur! You Gotta Beef with that?
I'm a Minotaur not a bully!
I studied at the Rocky Mountain Culinary School.I specialized in Seafood.
My Dad worked out of el Toro In New Mexico.

Mooncrow

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« Reply #33 on: <09-08-10/1108:05> »
Minotaur:Usda Beph
Bone Density(4) BOD 9(13)
Muscle Aug(4) STR10 (14)
Muscle Toner(4) just to be sick 3(7)

Munchie? Yes but with all the Pretty elves in our Party we needed a bulldozer. ;D


Sounds like good times to me^^

Doc Chaos

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« Reply #34 on: <09-08-10/1114:01> »
And Adepts can get even nastier. Critical strike, elemental strike, combined with some maneuvers...
Welcome to my character KageZero... (Mystic Adept on top of it)

One of my players plays a Capoeira martial arts Ki Adept. At the moment he inflicts 9k basic damage (8+1 net hit) and with his next Initiation thats probably gonna be 10k -2AP.
SR4A Limited Edition [german] - 0478/1100

The_Gun_Nut

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« Reply #35 on: <09-08-10/1142:25> »
That makes the baby Jesus cry.
There is no overkill.

Only "Open fire" and "I need to reload."

Mäx

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« Reply #36 on: <09-08-10/1147:35> »
One of my players plays a Capoeira martial arts Ki Adept. At the moment he inflicts 9k basic damage (8+1 net hit) and with his next Initiation thats probably gonna be 10k -2AP.
Not too shappy, my tiger shifter adept build does 9P AP-half in her natural form becouse i refused to make it higher in chargen
"An it harm none, do what you will"

Doc Chaos

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« Reply #37 on: <09-08-10/1148:27> »
Oh, did I forget to mention that he is a latent drake? His "second awakening" is around the corner.
SR4A Limited Edition [german] - 0478/1100

Usda Beph

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« Reply #38 on: <09-08-10/1152:39> »
That makes the baby Jesus cry.
Only if that sick and delicious Capoeira hits him TGN!
Yeah, I'm A Minotaur! You Gotta Beef with that?
I'm a Minotaur not a bully!
I studied at the Rocky Mountain Culinary School.I specialized in Seafood.
My Dad worked out of el Toro In New Mexico.

Critias

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« Reply #39 on: <09-08-10/1608:32> »
I think what's there is enough, when you consider the time and money that goes into printing sourcebooks, when you consider the amount of research required for a good martial arts supplement, and when you consider just what a niche it is in Shadowrun.  Take a look at the HERO games "Ultimate Martial Artist," and you'll see a book that covers a lot of martial arts very well, but that obviously took a whooooole lot of time to put together.  They did it because "Ninja HERO" has been a popular genre of their generic rules system for a long time, because martial artists are a popular schtick in a Champions (superhero) genre that also uses their same rules, etc, etc...

But if you look at how many other ways there are to fight someone in Shadowrun, and you look at what a niche-within-a-niche melee combat is, and then dedicated martial artists within that niche...the pay off just isn't there.  There's already a pretty big chunk of Arsenal dedicated to martial arts, and that's more than enough for the vast majority of campaigns out there.

Folks that know the difference between Pekiti Tersia Kali and Guro Dan Inosanto's Kali are few and far between...and, really, the difference in an RPG is negligible.  It's enough for both of them to be lumped in with all the other Kali/Escrima/FMA arts, and just given a few cool bonuses with the appropriate weapons.  You can describe your awesome footwork and masterful stabbing however you want to, once you sling the dice and do well in an attack.

Likewise, with the eight hundred billion styles of Kung Fu.  What does it matter -- in your average Shadowrun game -- if someone's using Choy Li Fut versus Wing Chun?  If he's making an attack roll, beating his opponent by a whole lot, and doing X amount of damage...guess what?  Describe it how you want to.

You're free to add all the detail you want in your home games, just like folks can describe their HK 227 as a 9mm, or their Ares Alpha as a .223, or their Ares Predator as a .40, if they want to.  There's no need for extra sourcebooks to use company resources and time, to delve into additional detail that (a) might be wrong, which will freak people out (just look at the clip vs. magazine argument), or (b) could be time spent working on something else.  

Right now, my only beef with the martial arts rules (as per Arsenal) is that they come from Qualities points.  That's a steep, steep, cost, and I'd like them better if they were linked somehow to your Unarmed Combat skill, came out of skill points, etc.  On the one hand, I like that you can make a Kimbo Slice or a Bob Sapp (by having a mediocre Unarmed Combat die pool, but just crazy points spent on +1 to DV so that if you land a solid hit someone's head comes off)...but I think the chapter and the rules would just flow better, feel more cohesive, and be more fairly priced if they were linked to skills more directly.

That's house rule territory, though, and not something that I think needs a rewrite.

(As a side note, I heard about a fighting monk over in China studying boxing because it developed very impressive hand speed.)
A vaguely popular guy a few of us may have heard of, Bruce Lee, did the same thing.   He incorporated quite a bit from American Boxing, and even some Fencing, into Jeet.
« Last Edit: <09-08-10/1612:57> by Critias »

Turtletron

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« Reply #40 on: <09-08-10/1900:11> »
There is also an adept power (distance strike i think) that let you throw a punch at a distance of (magic score) meters, that can make a difference in a fight.
(>) ...and I would have made it too, except for those nosey kids & their stupid dog...
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Kontact

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« Reply #41 on: <09-08-10/2249:37> »
I understand that they needed a BP framework to fit Martial Arts in, but taking self-defense training isn't exactly a defining background characteristic.  No more so than practicing at any other skill.

So, why did they make MA count towards the starting Quality limit?  Balance? Nonsense!  The only people with the spare BP to wast beyond the first 35 Quality points would be mundanes interested in close combat.  What possible archetype could use more help than a mundane punch-up artist?



By the way, Gun Nut, aren't shock gloves just a weapon which uses Unarmed combat skill?  I wouldn't think the damage they do would be considered be "Unarmed Damage" for the purposes of boxing's DV bonus...  right?  :-\

Darkeus

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« Reply #42 on: <09-08-10/2306:39> »
God, I wish someone would tell my Troll Street Samurai that melee is a niche thing in Shadowrun and not effective compared to guns.

That fragger cuts mooks in half with that damn combat axe of his in one round or less.  He has more kills with it than his Shotgun!!!

Melee can be dangerous in the right hands, hell even my Mystic Adept I GM is dangerous in close range!
I thought what I'd do is; I would pretend I was one of those deaf-mutes.

Shadowwalker

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« Reply #43 on: <09-08-10/2314:45> »
The Ninja/tank/Phyad Troll in in my Game is the Melee expert of the group while he is slow (only 1 IP) when he hits most targets do not get back up add that to the fact he does Electrical damage with his elemental strike/killing hands he rare uses any of his weapons when he can crank out a 11P before net that is AP 1/2 so I agree Melee Type work well in the current system's MA rules

Critias

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« Reply #44 on: <09-09-10/0103:04> »
It's not that rolling the dice and beating someone up is a niche thing.  It's that caring about the specifics of the martial art is a niche thing, especially when combined with and needing game rules for it.