[SlowDeck]

Speaking as someone who doesn't have any play experience... I generally take a negative quality with the idea a GM will actually use it at some point. That's why I never take "mild" for the allergy table. Plus, the description of "mild" kinda strikes me as not being an actual allergy, but that's because of my own allergy experiences.

[Reiper]

Speaking as someone who doesn't have any play experience... I generally take a negative quality with the idea a GM will actually use it at some point. That's why I never take "mild" for the allergy table. Plus, the description of "mild" kinda strikes me as not being an actual allergy, but that's because of my own allergy experiences.

I usually talk mild Soy, but that is mainly because of a RL issue where I can't stand Soy. it's also one of the most common food ingredients. Most GMs I talk to about it up my lifestyle cost until I'm already at high by a little bit to make up for it (but as a professional face, if I'm not living the High Life, I'm not living).

[Michael Chandra]

Sounds about right, Reiper. Soy is one of the 3 main ingredients (Krill, which goes with the Seafood allergy, a second) of most fake food, which makes it a likely 1/2~2/3 chance for it to trigger whenever you eat stuff. At Middle Lifestyle you eat real food half the time, at High all the time. If you grab High for food+stuff (assuming customized lifestyles), or pay an extra fee for all the good food (it's probably 10%, so 1k/month, for the food), then that's a way to avoid triggering it by accident just minutes before a meet and such.

And this is also nice, because it means that even if you manage to near-completely avoid the allergy (except for when the Johnson pays for food), you're still paying a price for it, namely a monetary one. Meanwhile, my own character has Simsense Vertigo, which kinda screws me out of Smartlink advantages and kinda sucks with Shotguns, especially since they didn't add Accuracy-weapon-modifications to R&G.

But allergy is the easiest to handle, it can be handled as simply as with a dieroll every run to see whether it will pop up. SINner is doable, so is Criminal SIN, but the Corporate ones get... Iffy. Especially the 25-karma one. It's basically a big trap.

[firebug]

I ended up doing that (taking sinner as a backstory but not for karma) because he left that life behind.  It seemed abusive to take the karma and not pay the taxes.

You mean the things about "SINners with X SIN pay this amount of their gross income as taxes"?  I don't think the PCs actually have to pay a percent of the money they make to the corp.  That makes no sense.

Granted, that does also mean that if they were captured by the corp for any reason they could be put into jail for tax evasion, but isn't that the traditional "how we finally nailed this huge criminal" story?

About the SIN in general, you definitely would risk getting a hit team sent on you if you ever ran against your own corp, because as people have said, any kind of biometric evidence would immediately point to you.  However, Corporate SINs aren't even shared with the Global SIN Registry, and it's established that megacorps are very secretive with any amount of information.  It actually means that if you have a Renraku Corporate SIN, and Ares Macrotechnology gets some blood flakes or something, they have a harder time matching it to you than if you have a National SIN, and even if they found out somehow that the runner who's biometrics they have worked for Renraku, you better believe they would have to pay out the ass for that information, because here's how it'd seem to Renraku:

"So you want access to our private SIN database in order to go after someone you suspect might be affiliated with us, in order to stop them from causing problems and setbacks, while at the same time pointing the blame on us?  That will require a check with a lot of zeroes."

But the thing that makes it worth 25 points, in my opinion, is the reason why your character has become a shadowrunner.  Someone with a Corporate SIN does not just become a runner for fun.  From the moment they were born, they were sculpted to be a corporate drone.  They were in a position many wageslaves wished they had, where their life was laid out for them already, where they'd almost automatically have more power and opportunity to advance through the corporate ladder as more or less a birthright.  Whatever put them into the shadows is why they'll be hunted by their corp, not just because they're a runner.  And as others have mentioned, if other runners find out you've got a corp SIN, the best case scenario is that they see you as a massive liability, because hanging around you could lead to them being between a Renraku hit-squad and you.  Even worse, those players might do as Michael mentioned--  Assume you're a spy, and possibly try to kill you.  Or they might realize you're on the run...  And you better bet Renraku is willing to pay big for your location and capture.

If I was GMing and a player wanted to pick that NQ, I'd have to make sure we discussed what exactly happened to throw this character out of the high life and into the gutter.  That would set the tone for how often they may have to fight or run from their past, how other players might react to their past, and how (if at all) it could eventually be overcome.  After all, buying off the NQ in the future is possible.  The likely months-long story that would be the result of the character trying to burn their SIN, possibly fake their death, maybe eliminate or make a deal with the head executive who is looking for them (after all, unless they pissed of the CEO himself, it does come down to the small group who want him dead, possibly to get rid of loose ends, or because he may know something that could incriminate them), and then create a new identity would be pretty awesome.

[martinchaen]

Let's look at the cost effectiveness of the SINNer quality, shall we (and yes, Firebug, players do have to pay the tax; call it the cost of staying off the grid or a good old fashioned sales tax or whatever, but it is stipulated in the NQ rules so it has to apply);

National SIN: 5 karma gained, 15% tax on all income
Criminal SIN: 10 karma gained, 15% tax on all income (and you're obviously a known criminal; not cool)
Limited Corporate SIN: 15 karma gained, 20% tax on all income
Corporate SIN: 25 karma gained, 10% tax on all income

I honestly think the tax levels are off for Corporate SIN, but that's another discussion. Let's look at how long it'd take for the NQ to start being a liability, assuming that 1 Karma = 2000 nuyen, as per the character generation and Shadowrun Missions conversion rate. The karma gained at character generation is effectively nullified by the loss of income eventually, I'll call this the cost effectiveness wall.

National SIN: 5 karma = 10,000, at 15% tax, each point of karma you've gained is "lost" for every 13,333 nuyen you earn. Cost effectiveness wall: 66,667 nuyen
Criminal SIN: 10 karma = 20,000, at 15% tax, same as National SIN, but the cost effectiveness wall rises to 133,333 nuyen
Limited Corporate SIN; 15 karma = 30,000, at 20% tax, meaning each point of karma is "lost" for every 10,000 nuyen you earn. Cost effectiveness wall is at 150,000 nuyen
Corporate SIN; 25 karma = 50,000 at only 10% tax, which means that each point of karma is lost for every 20,000 nuyen you earn. The wall is now at 500,000 nuyen

[ZeConster]

There's more to being a SINner than taxes, though. Limited Corporate SINs and Corporate Born SINs are risks when it comes to running (as not just the Johnsons, but your own team mates might turn on you if they find out), and Criminal SINners had better arrange fake alibis if they're going on a run and info might leak. Meanwhile, National SINners suffer the least from having a real SIN: they can cash in bounties on more legit runs (like in Manhunt) without having to worry too much about their teammates investigating, and on their days off they can stroll around the city or work on more legit sidejobs (hunter, bounty hunter and private investigator are nice exmples) with 0 risk of getting into trouble because a random SIN scan burns them. The taxes are pretty much the only thing that keeps National SINner from being a 0-point Quality, something that isn't the case for the other 3.

[Aranador]

Hmm - I get the issue you are trying to hash out I think - but it is difficult because at the end of the day, the Shadowrun world is a little different to our own.

Anyway - firstly - think of a SIN as a citizenship.  Most places do not accept dual citizenship.  So getting a new SIN means paperwork paperwork paperwork, and changing your SIN over.  You are migrating.

Secondly - Corp people tend to be born and raised corp people.  When the Corp takes over another minor company, they do so to take ownership of the IP, and remove a competitor.  They sack everyone they don't need and bring in corp people.  They 'extract' people they absolutely must have, and you never see them again.  Very rarely, they may make an offer to join the corp, but you'll likely never be a first class corp citizen.  Corp politics is waaaaay beyond how business takeovers are conducted in our world.

[Dinendae]

Meanwhile, my own character has Simsense Vertigo, which kinda screws me out of Smartlink advantages and kinda sucks with Shotguns, especially since they didn't add Accuracy-weapon-modifications to R&G.

You can still use a laser sight to get +1 accuracy (and +1 dice when used wirelessly). I do miss those mods though, especially custom grip.

[Michael Chandra]

Trust me, that 1 extra Accuracy is rather a big difference. And I can't use Laser Sights in sniping situations due to range, so I'm stuck getting the best ones there and using Edge to occasionally push the limit.

[Dinendae]

Trust me, that 1 extra Accuracy is rather a big difference. And I can't use Laser Sights in sniping situations due to range, so I'm stuck getting the best ones there and using Edge to occasionally push the limit.

Laser sight on the under mount, imaging scope on the top; the scope comes with a camera and vision magnification standard, plus 3 capacity for vision enhancements. Low-light or thermal would make the dot show up brightly when using the scope, or you could go with vision enhancement ( and possibly two or three of those). It wouldn't work in certain environments (fog/mist/rain/snow/etc.), but it would allow you to reach out and touch someone with another point of accuracy and another die.

[Michael Chandra]

For some reason I had a maximum range in mind, but I don't see it in SR5. Nice!

[Dinendae]

For some reason I had a maximum range in mind, but I don't see it in SR5. Nice!

Yep! Other than those environmental situations, the laser sight should work just fine with the vision magnification that comes standard, and slapping in low-light, thermal, and Rating 1 Vision enhancement should allow you to see the dot at whatever distance you are sniping from. Of course enemies with low-light and/or thermal might have a bit better chance to spot where the shooter is with a laser sight, but it sounds like you are shooting from distances that would give them problems hitting you.

[Michael Chandra]

When I can finally convince a backup GM to take my place in Missions, I'll be firing at either <30m, or beyond 350m, so yeah, I oughta be fine. Hello AM-47! ^__^ And the EBR for active combat.

[Dinendae]

When I can finally convince a backup GM to take my place in Missions, I'll be firing at either <30m, or beyond 350m, so yeah, I oughta be fine. Hello AM-47! ^__^ And the EBR for active combat.

The assassin's Primer, and more specifically Quietus (Children of Men, anyone? ) has inspired most of my recent builds. Sniper rifle for long to medium ranges, shotgun for medium to close, and a nice blade for the up close and personal touch! I'm drooling over the Run & Gun Claymore for my Troll.

[Whiskeyjack]

Let's look at the cost effectiveness of the SINNer quality, shall we (and yes, Firebug, players do have to pay the tax; call it the cost of staying off the grid or a good old fashioned sales tax or whatever, but it is stipulated in the NQ rules so it has to apply)

Just the fact that it was phrased as a "tax" is the part that I consider dumb and hard to wrap my head around. You're talking about tracking the taxable income of a person who has effectively fallen off the grid and whose work is all illegal. If he uses his old bank accounts for his running proceeds or asks Mr. Johnsons to provide him the equivalent of a Form 1099 so he can file his taxes, he's pretty much asking for worse!

 I think in my home group we discussed this and yah, an "off the grid" fee might be the best way to handle it. The character has a past with records attached, whether it's as a law-abiding citizen who fell from grace or as a criminal who was collared. No shadowrunner is going to be declaring income, so we see it as the character paying fees to someone for a bit of informational safe-keeping.

How exactly this applies is a whole separate logistical problem though.

If you're a burned corp kid, you don't really want that info out there. You could be on your corp's radar still, burned for a period of time for whatever reason or as a test or for pissing someone off but not to the point they just kill you. So they send you regular invoices and in return, you have the protection of corps not willingly giving over their data to just anyone, or someone is basically inventing a work history for you somewhere else, info that could be legit work history that won't be closely scrutinized as someone just completely vanishing might be suspicious.

National could work similarly, but the reporting issue is still there, and, I guess, you'd be paying a fee for someone to keep generating law-abiding activities for your real SIN? For criminal, I have no idea at all. I feel like this was a bad implementation of the idea, it's confusing and nonsensical and there would be better ways to not make this NQ basically free karma.

My question is though since most runners even those with a legal SIN are going to be using fake SINs for most everything they do and keeping money on cred sticks or accounts linked to fake SINs so how would the Nation or Corp be able to keep track of your income to take those taxes.

With a magical database. Which exclusively gets used for tax collection. Yes, that is the missions-official ruling

Because, yeah, this (which I pulled from another thread)...this just ain't cutting it with believability.