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Hacking Devices Question

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Jarrod

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« on: <10-06-19/1747:53> »
SR 6 doesn't talk about slaving devices to Hosts I don't think. It does say the following...

    SR 6 pg. 173 Generally speaking, in order to get to a device attached to a PAN, one must first gain access to that PAN.

I assume this holds true for Devices attached to a Host too. So not all devices are slaved, but for those that are, you can see their Matrix Icon, but you must hack their Mastered Commlink, Cyberdeck, or Host first right? Then you can hack the device, but the only protection Slaving slaving gets you is the requirement to hack Mastered Commlink, Cyberdeck, or Host first right? Then you can Hack the device, but it in 6th Edition the device gets no Master Firewall dice right?

Would physically wide spread devices such as street security cameras being slaved a City Municipal Host?

Stainless Steel Devil Rat

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« Reply #1 on: <10-06-19/1756:20> »
Would physically wide spread devices such as street security cameras being slaved a City Municipal Host?

Possibly, but not necessarily.  Maybe multiple authorities all want the camera's output, and so it's just broadcasting to all interested parties rather than being slaved to any particular host.

Really, it depends on how hard you want it to be to hack that street cam.
RPG mechanics exist to give structure and consistency to the game world, true, but at the end of the day, you’re fighting dragons with algebra and random number generators.

CigarSmoker

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« Reply #2 on: <10-06-19/1757:04> »
Then you can Hack the device, but it in 6th Edition the device gets no Master Firewall dice right?

no look in that thread on 1st page:

https://forums.shadowruntabletop.com/index.php?topic=30324.0

Banshee wrote the Matrix section in the core rules, so that :

SR 6 pg. 173 Generally speaking, in order to get to a device attached to a PAN, one must first gain access to that PAN.

refers to your network rolling with the Master Devices Defense stats.


Generally you can look for some Threads Banshee answered in, with his help i understand most of it now ... i wouldnt dare writing i understand everything yet ^^
« Last Edit: <10-06-19/1759:05> by CigarSmoker »

Jarrod

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« Reply #3 on: <10-06-19/1827:48> »
Ok, please help me make sure I got this right based off what I read from Xenon and Banshee.

If a device, say a gun or car, is slaved, then when I Hack the device I'm really hacking the Master/Network since access is based on Network and not Device.

Whatever level of Access I get, I have that Access level on all devices on the network? Is that right?

CigarSmoker

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« Reply #4 on: <10-06-19/1833:04> »
Whatever level of Access I get, I have that Access level on all devices on the network? Is that right?

When you use Probe/Backdoor or Brute Force on the Master Device yes.

But you dont need to in 6th, Outsider Access lets you use the Matrix actions directly. So can just use Data Spike on the Smartgun Weapon.

There:
https://forums.shadowruntabletop.com/index.php?topic=30324.msg527737#msg527737

Jarrod

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« Reply #5 on: <10-06-19/1852:49> »
Not all devices are on Mastered Networks though, or are they? Would average household devices such as microwaves and garage door openers not have special protection, or would even household devices be on low level Hosts for protection?

I ask be cause in another thread I read that you Hack Networks, not Devices.
« Last Edit: <10-06-19/1856:06> by Jarrod »

CigarSmoker

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« Reply #6 on: <10-06-19/1902:55> »
Not all devices are on Mastered Networks though, or are they?

Without using Houserules the Limit is = Data Processing. So with Toolbox Program you can reach 4 Data Processing on the best Commlink.
Thats 4 slave Devices, should be ok for most Chars.

If you can "chain" Devices together the Data Processing doesnt matter much. So when you imagine your garage door opener has Data Processing 1 it could be master to the microwave and so on... but for playability i would say you can just slave as many as you want as long as it is not too much (GM decides ... edit: reason is imagine you have a huge network containing of hundreds devices and then you have to reboot it ...)
Else a Hacker in a very big group (7 players, 1 GM) would have a serious disadvantage ...

I ask be cause in another thread I read that you Hack Networks, not Devices.

In a way thats true since the Network shares its defense stats.

would even household devices be on low level Hosts for protection?

I didnt see anything in the 6th rules regarding Hosts in relation to Lifestyle. But when you use a lvl 1 Host for Low Lifestyle households that has already very good defensive stats (it has 4;3,2,1)
So your household devices could be rolling either 8 or 7 dice as Defense with a lvl 1 Host.
« Last Edit: <10-06-19/1909:28> by CigarSmoker »

Hobbes

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« Reply #7 on: <10-07-19/0953:49> »
Game world wise individuals don't own Hosts as they're simply too expensive (so theoretically more expensive than just chaining a bunch of RCCs together and slaving your stuff to them).  But a Building Host for it's residents would be a thing.  I would imagine a Condo Board or HOA sort of set up would do the same.  And would have enough "business" stuff going on to justify the Host expense.  98% of the individuals in the Sixth world would be better off with some other cyber security set up if that was something they needed.  Shadowrunners and other sophisticated criminals would want private Hosts if they could afford them.

Also, you can slave things to your Commlink, which is what a lot of folks probably do.

Xenon

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« Reply #8 on: <10-07-19/1638:55> »
The book mention that Personal Area Networks are composed of a commlink and/or a deck, with small number of 'devices slaved behind it'. That generally speaking, 'in order to get to a device attached to a PAN, one must first gain access to that PAN' (I read that as devices out on the grid that are protected by a personal area network will use the firewall of the network it is protected by).

In this edition there is actually no mentioning about 'slaving' devices to a host, but it does mention a similar concept to the PAN above in that hosts may have 'devices on the inside' and in order to gain access to 'devices on the inside' you first need to gain access to the host (I read that as devices out on the grid that are protected by a wide area network will use the firewall of the network it is protected by)

There also seem to be a concept of unattended hosts (that only defend with its own Firewall) and hosts that are attended / defended by a spider (that defend with a combination of the mental attributes of the spider and its own Firewall).

It seem plausible that also a device can be considered unattended (in which case it no longer defend with its owners mental attributes) or attended (in which case it defend with its owners mental attributes).

It also seem plausible that a devices can be not 'behind' a commlink and/or deck nor on the 'inside' of a host (not protected by any network and thus does not have a firewall rating to defend with).

And there are also actions that does not require that you are on the inside of the network at all. Actions that work perfectly fine directly with just outside access. This seem to imply that devices 'behind' a PAN as well as devices 'on the inside' of a host are still actually 'on the matrix' and can still be directly spotted or directly targeted by outside access actions (such as Data Spike).

...but due to the wording for hosts it could also mean that devices 'on the inside' are literally actually 'inside' the host and that you first need to 'enter' the host in order to access the device, that the device is not present on the matrix at all and even outside actions such as data spike cannot be used against the device until you actually enter the host.



If a device, say a gun or car, is slaved, then when I Hack the device I'm really hacking the Master/Network since access is based on Network and not Device.

Whatever level of Access I get, I have that Access level on all devices on the network? Is that right?
Generally speaking, yes. But it depend on what you mean when you type "Hack the device".


You can for example take the Data Spike action on the device directly no matter if it is 'slaved behind' a commlink, 'on the inside' of a host or not part of any network at all.

If the device is part of a 'network' then your action is opposed by Data Processing + Firewall of the network.
If the device is not part of a 'network' then it will not defend at all.



You can use the Brute Force action to gain User access no matter if it is 'slaved behind' a commlink, 'on the inside' of a host or not part of any network at all.

If the device is part of a 'network' then your action is opposed by Willpower of the owner + Firewall of the network.
If the device not part of a 'network' then your action is opposed by just Willpower of the owner.

If the device is part of a 'network' and you already have User access on the network (for whatever reason) then you don't need to take the Brute Force action again. You are already on the inside of the network. You already have User access. You can already take actions that require User access.



If the device in the example above was... an elevator. Then you can take the Control Device action (which require that you have User access) to move it to the 23rd floor.

If the device was part of a 'network' then your action will be opposed by Willpower of the owner + Firewall of the network.
If the device was not part of a 'network' then your action will be opposed by just Willpower of the owner.



Anyway, that is how I read it.
Rules are a bit new to me so I can be mistaken of course :-)