[Shinobi Killfist]

Not sure why humans aren’t in b tier as is. Raise magic from 1 to 6 is 5 points edge 1 to 7 is 6 or eleven points total for B. 

Because frag your edgy mage... or because numbers are hard.

I think it may be because of the hotfix. I think the numbers changed a bit after the hotfix but maybe not the levels at where human could take a racial priority. But I have a shit memory so maybe I’m on crack.

As an aside on this if it was important to have e trolls why isn’t it important to have a viable A human.

 I personally hate E trolls because they stop being trolls. No one is building a troll decker they are building a human decker in troll cosplay.

[Michael Chandra]

Would allowing humans to use Special Attribute Points to apply to any attribute be too strong?

As it stands, taking Human at Priority C with Mundane will just waste 3 SAPs...

Definitely would be OP, because it means they can go way too crazy with their Attribute Points. Picking a single one might be more fair, and I think I'd add the limit in of 'only if your special attributes are capped'.

[Shinobi Killfist]

Would allowing humans to use Special Attribute Points to apply to any attribute be too strong?

As it stands, taking Human at Priority C with Mundane will just waste 3 SAPs...

Definitely would be OP, because it means they can go way too crazy with their Attribute Points. Picking a single one might be more fair, and I think I'd add the limit in of 'only if your special attributes are capped'.

Then every meta is op. Max stats with race is 36 points. 8 stats x4=32 plus one stat at 6 for a human 33 points I guess 2 for edge. Metas can do that and go past 6 in at least 2 stats using the full 36 on core stats. With 2 stats all coming from meta the lowest benefit race elf would need to spend 12 points from meta. Coincidentally the 12 they get at b which combined with a attributes nets the most points. You don’t need more than 2 stats to manipulate this to the fullest.

Humans with one floating stat or being able to use meta points freely on any stat are still worse than all the meta races.

[Hephaestus]

Humans with one floating stat or being able to use meta points freely on any stat are still worse than all the meta races.

Now that we are in an Edition where humans can take previously meta-specific qualities (low-light/thermographic vision, dermal plating, etc.) it makes perfect sense that human mundanes would have a way to utilize SAPs outside of edge. You could call it "Hidden Potential" or some such nonsense, and let them pick one (or two) stat(s) they could spend SAPs on and push the limit(s) up by one or two points. Then humans have a reason to exist at priority A and B again. The only restriction I'd put on it is that you cannot use Impaired Attribute on any of your chosen stats.

And considering SAPs are only available at chargen, its not like it would be a consistent problem throughout a campaign.

[Xenon]

...and push the limit(s) up by one or two points

You don't think that would push deckers, technomancers, riggers, hermetic magicians etc etc into playing humans....?

[Tecumseh]

You don't think that would push deckers, technomancers, riggers, hermetic magicians etc etc into playing humans....?

Personally, I think it would, and it would be my biggest potential concern.

If humans can put Adjustment Points anywhere, I wouldn't automatically remove any racial maximums. Exceptional Attribute is much less of a commitment now than it was in 5E (as a % of your chargen karma), which means that it's more accessible / less exclusive for everyone.

[Finstersang]

Though it´s worth noting that Humans are limited to max. 9 Special Attribute Points, some of which they also want to put some in their Edge Attribute. That alone curbs some of the feared powergaming potential.

And if you further want to tone this down: What if Humans are able to put their Special Attribute Points into every Attribute, but a max. of 1 point into each physical or mental Attribute? This would restrict some of the min-maxing builds that would be possible with Attributes A and Metatype C, and it kinda fits the notion of humans being "average". And coincidentally, it also fits the fact that Metatype C offers 9 Special Attribute points, one for each mundane Attribute including Edge 

[Arkas]

I would argue, that the bonuses to their max attributes are not the same as buying the "Exceptional Attribute" quality. With a metatype you are either buying the set or you are buying nothing, while the quality is a choice of the exact attribute you want. The latter to me is worth more, than the set is, while the set could by chance be the exact thing I wanted. Also the reduced maxima potentially weigh more in my book, as it is easier to be impacted by them, than it would be to make use of an increased one. Also in the metatypes they are again part of the set.

So to me it appears that the list of qualities is actually not a good toolkit to build metatypes from, nor to discern their worth. This leads me to the conclusion, that the math proposed by the OP is not quite adequate for this purpose.

So while I admittedly did not yet dive deep into solving the perceived problem (or analyzing if it is an actual issue), I would tend to change how humans are valued in the metatype column. A first idea would be to keep humans limited to a max of C, but give them slightly more adjustment points than the metas get at each priority.

[Shinobi Killfist]

...and push the limit(s) up by one or two points

You don't think that would push deckers, technomancers, riggers, hermetic magicians etc etc into playing humans....?

Is that worse than pushing them away. Literally every other race makes a better hermetic than humans currently. Elves still rule charisma based and that’s not a problem but humans getting a niche is?

[DigitalZombie]

Would allowing humans to use Special Attribute Points to apply to any attribute be too strong?

As it stands, taking Human at Priority C with Mundane will just waste 3 SAPs...

Definitely would be OP, because it means they can go way too crazy with their Attribute Points. Picking a single one might be more fair, and I think I'd add the limit in of 'only if your special attributes are capped'.

I actually think it wouldnt be super powerful. Any other metatype can go" way too crazy" too almost to the same extend - but with higher max scores. Strongest example: the dwarf.  Any dwarf character type would like atleast 3 in body and willpower. Thats the first 4 adjustment points right there. Some character types would prefer higher stats, and a dwarf could easily put all 11 points from his B adjustment points into body, willpower and strength - without hitting his max in any of them. And end up with a total of 35 attribute points from A attributes (24) and B adjustment points (11).

As I think has already been said: mundane humans cant even use their higher edge cap for anything. Priority E and D in adjustment points wouldnt hit their maximum. Priority C gives you 9 points, thus 3 of them would be wasted as a mundane.
This means that all races EXCEPT humans can start with 6 edge ( if they are mundane, and not willing to spend a bunch of karma, or throw attribute points out the window).

Actually I think that we easily could delete the whole race thing in the adjustment coloumn. And allow any race at any level. And give humans the ability to put their points im any attribute they felt like, special, edge physical or mental.

I would be willing to change my mind if I saw an example of how crazy that human could be, with the ability to put his Adj. Points anywhere

[Shinobi Killfist]

Yes. You only need 2 stats to be metahuman stats to max it out, so it is effectively no different for a human who could put it in any stat. 35 points.  But only 1 max stat so the rest are capped at 5, or 4 points each.4x8=32+2 more for your one maxed stat at exceptional attribute for 34.  A orc who just used his 11 to bump body and strength to 5, and used his 24 for his remaining 6 stats would have straight 5s.  He'd have 3 left over in his meta.  Now orcs/trolls would be stuck with going over in str/body and maybe having to dump charisma or something a bit to get a 6 in a non str/body stat. same with elves though charisma, agility are more often maxed in builds.  Dwarf with his 3 can max any stat they want.

Still I personally prefer to giving humans 1 stat they can increase the max by 2 or 2 stats by 1 with that stat or stats being able to be increased by the metahuman chart with humans going to A.  There will be certain stat based archetypes they will excel at that others don't but that is no worse than elves being the best faces/shamans and trolls the best unarmed combatants, tanks etc.

[Zar]

From what I can tell everyone starts with 0 Edge.   You can deconstruct the archetypes to get to that conclusion.  So a mundane priority C human loses 2 sap.   Now my group nixed that idea because our 5e brains can’t understand the change. 

[Xenon]

Edge start at 1 (table can be found on SR6 p. 64)