Shadowrun
Shadowrun General => The Secret History => Topic started by: ARCimedes on <04-25-11/2330:15>
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When Ghostwalker arrived in Denver he started by taking out the Aztlan teocalli, which was a strong source of magical power for the Azzies. After that, he attacked a number of locations in every sector. It seems like the attacks were not related, but included a high rise apartment in UCAS (apparently killing a leader of the Unity policlub from CAS), Denver Foodstuffs, and the Lakeside Amusement Park. Were these targets chosen just because they are high profile and to scare the populace, or was there some other strategy going on there? It seems likely that he would pick targets for multiple reasons besides the publicity...
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Maybe he needed to get the Fang Shu just right to make a lost love more comfortable?
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From what I heard about the Ghostwalker, he is not big fun of lesser races. I dont think that he would consider creating panics and sraring the population to be the reason for an action. I think that mentioned attacks were precise hits to get rid of specific oponents...
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I am at work so can't check but I think a good number of those places were where fragments of a great spirit resided. I think he was trying to capture each fragment to reassemble the thing.
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"HEY! You (Meta)Humans! Get off my land!" :P
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While I don't have the relevant source material handy, it's always been my understanding that while Ghostwalker's siege of Denver certainly terrified the populace, terror was not the intent. Rather, Ghostwalker was specifically targeting those he considered threats and/or enemies. (Specifically Atzlan/Aztechnology, but others as well.) I've wondered how a dragon that's been in the metaplanes for eons would know who to target, but I'm guessing that either he and Dunkelzahn had a long chat (After the Big D sacrificed himself but before Ghostwalker emerged from the rift.) or when GW picked up his body he took the time to read one of those dragon memory crystals. (Also presumably left for him by Dunk.)
The attacks on Denver are like Sirrug's numerous attacks over the years that may have seemed like random terror, but were (probably) targeted assassinations of those that would/had killed dragons. (With a ton of collateral damage... but Sirrug is a lot less pleasant than Ghostwalker.)
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While I don't have the relevant source material handy, it's always been my understanding that while Ghostwalker's siege of Denver certainly terrified the populace, terror was not the intent. Rather, Ghostwalker was specifically targeting those he considered threats and/or enemies. (Specifically Atzlan/Aztechnology, but others as well.) I've wondered how a dragon that's been in the metaplanes for eons would know who to target, but I'm guessing that either he and Dunkelzahn had a long chat (After the Big D sacrificed himself but before Ghostwalker emerged from the rift.) or when GW picked up his body he took the time to read one of those dragon memory crystals. (Also presumably left for him by Dunk.)
The attacks on Denver are like Sirrug's numerous attacks over the years that may have seemed like random terror, but were (probably) targeted assassinations of those that would/had killed dragons. (With a ton of collateral damage... but Sirrug is a lot less pleasant than Ghostwalker.)
That's what I was figuring. Although I am sure the terror caused was an added benefit and part of the plan. It is was easier to get the governments to cooperate when the public was panicked, after all. But what enemies was he targetting? What could have been at the amusement park, for instance, that was a threat to a great dragon?
-ARCimedes
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That's what I was figuring. Although I am sure the terror caused was an added benefit and part of the plan. It is was easier to get the governments to cooperate when the public was panicked, after all. But what enemies was he targetting? What could have been at the amusement park, for instance, that was a threat to a great dragon?
-ARCimedes
Dragons don't do anything just for show. Who knows? Considering the dangers of killing a dragon, the payday to go with it must have been huge. (Come on, Just how many zeros would you have to tack on the price tag to convince your players it was a good investment? now double it cause it's the president.) Anyone getting that kind of paycheck would have easily had enough to settle where ever they pleased, and what better place to hide than in plain sight fronted as something totally innocent and legit? A theme park would have fit that bill and kept money coming in as a legitimate business, while providing a mask of family fun. Now as a Great Dragon, well aware of the things that had happened, especially to another Great Dragon and looking to lay down the law, wouldn't you kill anyone you knew of that was involved? (I would...) To me it screams that GW was telling anyone with a beef, that he's not one to fuck with, and what better way to do that than to massacre the last people that had any hand in the killing of another Great Dragon? It's the clearist signal you could send to anyone who knew. "Hey, I Know what happened, who did it, where everyone is, and where the bodies are buried. If I catch even the slightest whiff that you want a piece of me, I'll fuck up your everything up. Nothing and no one scares me, and I'm not afraid to fuck a whole territory up just to show you I'm not kidding."
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GW (after running rampant in Densva and kicking the crud out of the azzies): "Does anyone else have a problem with my leadership?"
Densva Councilors: "Uhh...no."
GW: "Good. Now that the food chain has literally been established. Let's talk business..."
Scaring the crap out of people to get your point across does work. GW was simply practicing litteraly power politics against the most unpleasant of the Council nations. He knew that none of the others would back AZ overly much as he didn't appear to have any interest in griefing them. That and since he's beena pretty decent administrator who wants the local area to prosper can't help but make him popular with the local populace. Granted dirty tricks still go on, but as long as it doesn't get too out of hand, I can't see him really getting overly bothered about things
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GW (after running rampant in Densva and kicking the crud out of the azzies): "Does anyone else have a problem with my leadership?"
Densva Councilors: "Uhh...no."
GW: "Good. Now that the food chain has literally been established. Let's talk business..."
First thing that gets built is a Ketchup Factory...
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That's what I was figuring. Although I am sure the terror caused was an added benefit and part of the plan. It is was easier to get the governments to cooperate when the public was panicked, after all. But what enemies was he targetting? What could have been at the amusement park, for instance, that was a threat to a great dragon?
-ARCimedes
Amusement parks attract people. Maybe the real target was visiting the park. Hell, maybe the real target was 7 years old but GW's 327 Initiate Grades worth of Divination told him that he'd better take care of the problem now.
Maybe a travelling magician lived in the house of mirrors there. I hear those things can be a rally bad place to get into a fight with a mage.
Or maybe the author had just been there the week before and gotten bad service. :D
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I am at work so can't check but I think a good number of those places were where fragments of a great spirit resided. I think he was trying to capture each fragment to reassemble the thing.
To say he has a disturbingly in-depth interest in the Denver Spirit is putting it mildly.
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Also, every (known) great dragon has a fanatical fear/hatred of Blood Magic. Hence Ghostwalker laying down on Atzlan/Aztechnology.
There's a quote from the unpublished Dragons:Earthdawn book that is a bit hazy in memory, but is something like:
'The greatest mistake we ever made, was the mixing of blood in our magic'
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Which still leaves the two biggest questions unanswred:
– What about the fear and hatred of several nations with modern armies, then-unstatted thor shots and nuclear weapons against ONE dragon taking over?
– Why didn't they just blow him up? (Does he have Greater Slow spell or what?)
For the sake of plot my mind can take a lot of BS, but so far I don't see the plot that's worth my mind cramps here.
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well...it's kinda the M.A.D. doctrine written small.
A dragon, even a great dragon, is still a singular being and while capable of great destruction, can be appeased. If not, the area of destruction can be contained somewhat and it's relatively easy to track.
A Nation-state (I include mega-corps in this) has access to many WMD's that can cause equivalent, if not worse destruction than a GD on a rampage. THOR shots qualify as a mini-WMD really (over a small area) and casually chucking those around will remove the bar to temptation to use them justa little bit more if minor damage is done to corporate territory (and at the end of the day, Densva is a relatively minor amount of collateral to lose). Signaling your willingness to use such a thing will ratchet the tension up a bit with other corporations.
And Aztlan is surrounded by hostile parties (PCC, CAS, UCAS) and Corporations (Ares and now S-K moving into the CAS). Even the somewhat neutral nations (Salish, AMC, Sioux) aren't particularly favorably disposed to Aztlan. Why by the unneeded grief?
And the concept of "what happens if we miss?" has to get them pause for thought. Dragons are a (rightfully) arrogant bunch and having some emphemerals who he is not favorably disposed to trying to geek him so recently after his little brother got kacked will net him off ona roaring rampage of revenge the likes of which the Sixth World has never seen. and knowing him he'll be cagey about it too, like whiping out all the border defenses in former Texas territory, which the CAS (and S-K will take advantage off), and along the PCC border. If you get Ghostwalker and Lofwyr coordinating, it'sa big mess of ugly that evenAztaln will be hard pressed to stop
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On the other hand, if someone just SHOT my little brother, I MIGHT be acting a little less cocky after just emerging from faerieland...
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On the other hand, if someone just SHOT my little brother, I MIGHT be acting a little less cocky after just emerging from faerieland...
Or you'd be "out looking for revenge against the people that killed his brother!" <queue movie trailer>
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Speak for yourself. Most people's fantasy self would wreak a terrible vengeance that makes the Revelation to St. John look tame.
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Yeah, but imagine that most people (or dragons that act like most people would act) die much earlier, long before becoming a Great Dragon. That's basically the same problem with Vampire Elders in LARPs: These guys survived hundreds of years, then suddenly they are played by a "most people" kinda guy, act stupid and headstrong and get killed.
Sure, GD's are powerful. But they didn't become GD's by acting like adolescent little punks.
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On the other hand, if someone just SHOT my little brother, I MIGHT be acting a little less cocky after just emerging from faerieland...
Except that your little brother just shot himself, and had a nice long chat with you about it.
Also, there's no telling what sort of resources Big D may have set him up with before this happened. It's possible those Thor satellites were all suffering "technical difficulties" at the time.
Basically, dragons are plot points, especially when it comes to canon fluff. To expect them to act differently is a little too much suspension of disbelief IMO.
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Start tossing WMD's (Which I include pissed off Great Dragons in that group, look at Tehran) around, and we stop playing Shadowrun and start playing Fallout with Magic. :P
Also, Harlequin's Return... Hint-hint.
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Somehow I think dragons are intelligent enough to realize that awakening after 7000 years have passed that times might have changed a little. Unfortunately human writers, without the advantage of draconic intelligence, have them rampaging around like mini-Godzilla's.
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I personally blame it on listening to too much Blue Oyster Cult. :P
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:-\ Ugh, I haven't played Metal Gear Solid in years, and it still hits me. GW? There's a reason none of the WMDs were launched, and that is because Ghostwalker is an AI who controls the WMD arsenal, among other things.
...scissors 61.
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Don't make me pull out my discussion about the RAID-Infinity AI made up of Munitions RFID tags and centralized around a Nukes Targeting System. :P
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Well, unlike other systems, Shadowrun and Earthdawn have gone out of thier way to make the Dragons of the setting to Quote Mike Pondsmith: "Used to kill big things and frighten small children." They are deliberately designed to be made exceptionally difficult to kill even with the advent of Thor Shots and other hi-tech arms.
The Therans had actually more destrictive capacity thatn Earth 2070 (tho nukes come very close) and they got whupped by the draconic alliance back in the old days. And the dragons awakening have caught on to the practical uses of tech very quickly. And are smart enough to figure out counters to it. And the corps know it.
Picking a fight with a Great is never a good idea. Picking a fight with all of them is suicide. And considering corporations still mostly operate by the bottom line in SR, better to negotiate over the long run.
Ghostwalker decided to make an example of a corp that in the shadows made a habit of being professionally unpleasant. I truely doubt any of them were crying into thier bier over that.
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I always read that Thera was super powerful, but fucking nukes ARE part of the equation. And that equation includes the fact that Barsaive/Ukraine could be turned to ash several times over.
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I always read that Thera was super powerful, but fucking nukes ARE part of the equation. And that equation includes the fact that Barsaive/Ukraine could be turned to ash several times over.
Assuming the manasphere lets you set the nuke off. Now that the earth itself is alive and making some of these decisions, nukes are no longer a very good idea. What if you drop a nuke on GW's head and it bounces off? Now you've shown your hand and realized that deuces aren't wild so all you've got is a pair.
Meanwhile he's still a fraggin' dragon and he can read the giant UCAS on the side of that missile. Suddenly instead of rampaging through Denver he's rampaging through the president's front yard.
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wasnt there some weakness mentioned in Spy games?
I didnt finished reading...in fact Ill get just a brief look, but this catches my eye...
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not that I saw, but am Still reading through it.
If not.
Welcome to not being the top of the food chain anymore
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Welcome to not being the top of the food chain anymore
"The ketchup factory is not being made fast enough. Whip those workers faster!" "They're drones, sir. Whipping them won't work, they're made of metal." "*Sighs* I miss the old days..."
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;D
LOL
+1
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Ghostwalker did not come through the Watergate rift alone, the reports said he lead an army of spirits.
Dropping a nuke on Denver is not really an option, the CAS, PCC and Souix Nation will not be happy with you. Then if the attack works you will have the other Great Dragons ready to make an example of the UCAS. The good news is if it fails you'll only have one really pissed Great Dragon.
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"Why? Why was I constructed with the ability to feel pain?"
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No Pain no Gain. No way to punish, no control.
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Then you may call lack of pain: motivation :)
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Without pain life has no meaning.
I would like to give your life meaning :o