[Lucean]

A bit stubborn, are we?

Look at page 107, there are tables for character improvement. I can't find a cost for power points. So with the rules on pg. 278/279, which you seem to ignore, there is no way to simply buy PP after chargen. They can only be gained indirectly, depending on the kind of adept you play.

[SlowDeck]

But aren't all those things specified elsewhere that they can be done out of chargen? Like qualities and skill/attribute advancement etc.

No. In fact, the advancement rules are actually at the end of the chargen section and are actually used within chargen as part of what can be done when spending leftover karma. So, technically, the entire section on advancement is actually part of the chargen rules; just that the only thing from karma expenditures that is accepted as not being capable of being done out of chargen is the mystic adept gaining PP. That actually caused me some confusion at first, as it appeared that chargen is not actually something that truly ends in this game.

[Xenon]

there are different rules to follow after chargen for sure.


A character must spend all attribute points during character creation... Characters at character creation may only have 1 Mental or Physical attribute at their natural maximum limit

Mystic adepts must purchase their Power Points with Karma (5 Karma each at character creation for a full Power Point, with a maximum number of points equal to their Magic attribute rating).

In character generation, the highest characters can raise a skill is 6 (7 if they purchase the Aptitude quality). After character generation, the highest rating a skill can hit is 12 (13 with the Aptitude quality)... All skill and skill group points must be spent at the time of character creation. These points cannot be saved or used after the game starts.

Character creation checklist...Mystic adepts do not get their Power Points for free like other adepts, but must spend 5 Karma per Power Point...

[Xenon]

At character creation, adepts receive Power Points equal to their Magic attribute, while mystic adepts have to buy Power Points with Karma. Subsequently, Power Points can come in two ways. If you’re an adept, you get a free Power Point whenever you increase your Magic attribute (though this doesn't apply to mystic adepts), and you can gain a Power Point through Initiation (p. 324) instead of gaining a metamagic.

Subsequently (adverb) = after a particular thing has happened; afterwards
synonyms:   later, later on, at a later date, at some time/point in the future, at a subsequent time, afterwards, in due course, following this/that, eventually, then, next, by and by
antonyms:   previously

[ZeConster]

no?  I'm not seeing anything that says that.

Then you're not looking very well. Xenon's posts show it pretty clearly. The book is pretty definite about there only being two ways to gain power points post-chargen.

[Sir_Prometheus]

But aren't all those things specified elsewhere that they can be done out of chargen? Like qualities and skill/attribute advancement etc.

No. In fact, the advancement rules are actually at the end of the chargen section and are actually used within chargen as part of what can be done when spending leftover karma. So, technically, the entire section on advancement is actually part of the chargen rules; just that the only thing from karma expenditures that is accepted as not being capable of being done out of chargen is the mystic adept gaining PP. That actually caused me some confusion at first, as it appeared that chargen is not actually something that truly ends in this game.

^This, basically, is my point. 


Nothing Xenon has said or quoted really addresses what I am talking about. 

[reyjinn]

His last post does.

[SlowDeck]

Yeah, Reyjinn is right. Xenon's last post really does cover it.

[RHat]

But aren't all those things specified elsewhere that they can be done out of chargen? Like qualities and skill/attribute advancement etc.

No. In fact, the advancement rules are actually at the end of the chargen section and are actually used within chargen as part of what can be done when spending leftover karma. So, technically, the entire section on advancement is actually part of the chargen rules; just that the only thing from karma expenditures that is accepted as not being capable of being done out of chargen is the mystic adept gaining PP. That actually caused me some confusion at first, as it appeared that chargen is not actually something that truly ends in this game.

^This, basically, is my point. 


Nothing Xenon has said or quoted really addresses what I am talking about. 

Without question, his last posts do - the language, in an exclusive usage, refers to character creation.

[prismite]

"Hello there, Mr. Horse. What? This stick? Well..."

Jus'sayin.

[SlowDeck]

"Hello there, Mr. Horse. What? This stick? Well..."

Jus'sayin.

Horse: "You got me fire! Just what I always wanted!" *casts flamethrower on prismite*

Psycho Horse strikes again!

 

[ZeConster]

Nothing Xenon has said or quoted really addresses what I am talking about.

Except for in this post:

SR5 p. 278-279 Power Points
Power Points are the quantified qi energy that adepts can spend to buy permanent powers. At character creation, adepts receive Power Points equal to their Magic attribute, while mystic adepts have to buy Power Points with Karma. Subsequently, Power Points can come in two ways. You get a free Power Point whenever you increase your Magic attribute, and you can gain a Power Point through Initiation (p. 324) instead of gaining a metamagic.

Or in this post:

At character creation, adepts receive Power Points equal to their Magic attribute, while mystic adepts have to buy Power Points with Karma. Subsequently, Power Points can come in two ways. If you’re an adept, you get a free Power Point whenever you increase your Magic attribute (though this doesn't apply to mystic adepts), and you can gain a Power Point through Initiation (p. 324) instead of gaining a metamagic.

Subsequently (adverb) = after a particular thing has happened; afterwards
synonyms:   later, later on, at a later date, at some time/point in the future, at a subsequent time, afterwards, in due course, following this/that, eventually, then, next, by and by
antonyms:   previously

So like Xenon has been saying, and like I've been pointing out to you that he's saying, the following holds:

• Page 278-279
• States there are
  
  • two, and only two
  ways to get Power Points post-chargen
• Spending 5 Karma to buy a Power Point is not one of those two ways
• Therefore, it can not be used post-chargen

[Mithlas]

So, technically, the entire section on advancement is actually part of the chargen rules; just that the only thing from karma expenditures that is accepted as not being capable of being done out of chargen is the mystic adept gaining PP.

That's because it's a bad idea. The "mystic adepts can only get PP in chargen" is like saying "you want to go with one of the old MA builds of a mostly adept with a tad spellcasting or whatnot that was valid since at least 3rd edition? Go screw yourself".

It also exacerbates the already significant problem of front-loading your character if you want to play a MA because the sensible option of buying PP exists only during character creation instead of being part of character advancement.

[Sir_Prometheus]

Nothing Xenon has said or quoted really addresses what I am talking about.

Except for in this post:

SR5 p. 278-279 Power Points
Power Points are the quantified qi energy that adepts can spend to buy permanent powers. At character creation, adepts receive Power Points equal to their Magic attribute, while mystic adepts have to buy Power Points with Karma. Subsequently, Power Points can come in two ways. You get a free Power Point whenever you increase your Magic attribute, and you can gain a Power Point through Initiation (p. 324) instead of gaining a metamagic.

Or in this post:

At character creation, adepts receive Power Points equal to their Magic attribute, while mystic adepts have to buy Power Points with Karma. Subsequently, Power Points can come in two ways. If you’re an adept, you get a free Power Point whenever you increase your Magic attribute (though this doesn't apply to mystic adepts), and you can gain a Power Point through Initiation (p. 324) instead of gaining a metamagic.

Subsequently (adverb) = after a particular thing has happened; afterwards
synonyms:   later, later on, at a later date, at some time/point in the future, at a subsequent time, afterwards, in due course, following this/that, eventually, then, next, by and by
antonyms:   previously

So like Xenon has been saying, and like I've been pointing out to you that he's saying, the following holds:

• Page 278-279
• States there are
  
  • two, and only two
  ways to get Power Points post-chargen
• Spending 5 Karma to buy a Power Point is not one of those two ways
• Therefore, it can not be used post-chargen

No, it doesn't, I read him the first time. He quotes some things, then makes some assertions that are not supported by those quotes.

My point is that the karma buy is during the last stage of chargen.....which is basically the same as character advancement. No they do not do a good job of distinguishing which is which, the two sections blend together.

[SlowDeck]

Prometheus, do you have any rules text that specifically contradicts what Xenon is saying?