[Major Doom]

I'm a bit confused about how helmets apply to calculating Encumbrance.  I was reading the "Armor and Encumbrance" rule (SR4A, page 161), and understand that helmets do not count as stacked armor, but as a modifier to armor, followed by the second paragraph stating when a character's armor (highest of Ballistics or Impact) exceed's Body x2, then the character suffers penalties.  This makes sense to me.

But reading the "Securetech PPP-System" (Arsenal, page 49) paragraph, it makes an indirect reference to helmets as the following:

These armor pieces do not count as separate armor for purposes of encumbrance; instead, these items modify the rating of armor worn by their rating just as helmets and shields do...

Does this mean that like the Securetech PPP-System, helmets do not count toward encumbrance or does this special case only applies to the Securetech PPP-System?

[Chaemera]

No, it means that PPP-System does not count as separate pieces of armor (ie, stacking), but rather modify your armor rating prior to determining encumbrance, just as helmets and shields modify armor prior to determining encumbrance.

There is nothing I can find that says the PPP System doesn't count towards encumbrance.

Example:

Body 3 character wearing Armored Clothing (4/0) experiences no encumbrance, since 4 < 3x2.
He then straps on SecureTech PPP Leg/Arm casings (+1/+1), Helmet (+0/+2) and Vitals Protector (+1/+1) for a final armor of 6/4. So he's still not encumbered( 4+1+0+1 < 3x2).
Picking up a Ballistic Shield (+6/+4), he immediately wishes he weren't so stupid... he's taking a -3 penalty to Agility and Reaction[4+1+0+1+6 (12) > 3x2 (6), (12-6)/2 = 3].

[FastJack]

The way I understand it, the "do not count as separate armor" comment is saying that they do not count as Stacked armor, so you add the armor ratings together instead of taking the highest rating. For encumbrance penalties, both Securetech PPP-System, Helmets and shields figure into encumbrance by adding together ALL Ballistics/Impact ratings to see what the encumbrance would be. So, wearing each piece of Securetech armor would give you +3/+7 armor ratings, and if the Impact is greater than your Body x 2, then you would take the encumbrance penalty.

[Chaemera]

Yup, that's exactly how the book reads to me, too, FastJack.

[Major Doom]

Very good, thanks for the clarification.

[Ultra Violet]

Encumbrance is snow from the past, since "WAR!" has a cheap and available solution in form of YNT Soft Weave Armor, available to all kinds of clothing and armor.

[Chaemera]

Now now, that only helps up to a point, and by which, I mean Str x2 points of armor...

[Bradd]

Soft weave just raises the limit to Body + Body + Strength (although it says so it a very roundabout way). I don't think it'll make that big a difference in practice. Heavy hitters tend to have Body high enough that they can already wear anything, while other folks have medium-low Strength.

@Chaemera: Pretty sure it's only +Strength. Like I said, it's roundabout. There are lots of weirdly phrased rules like that in the new book. Like, it wasn't immediately clear whether tacnets give +1 to Leadership tests, or +1 to the results. And I'm still not sure what the Damage Value should be for burst mode suppression fire.

[FastJack]

The Softweave costs more and has higher availability, reducing the Armor rating for encumbrance by your Strength score.

[Ultra Violet]

And my new Nightmare is a charismatic but weak Pixie adept with "Mind Over Matter" Power and a soft weaved Heavy Milspec with integrated Strength bonus. And his weapon of choice is a bow, cause of his enhanced skill, Quick Draw and MRSI Software...

[Chaemera]

Bradd, your right, I read the rule on SoftWeave slightly off kilter (read as reducing the penalty, not the effective armor).

UV,

... may use one Mental Attribute in place of one Physical attribute for any tests.

increases the character's Strength attribute by it's rating.

Way I read that:

Strength 4, Charisma 5
Milspec Armor Strength Upgrade 3
Results in:
Strength 7, Charisma 5
Lifting test:
Strength (7) + Body
Mind Over Matter:
Charisma (5) + Body

EDIT
Granted, the Strength Upgrade would apply to the SoftWeave advantage, but you still need Body x 3 + Strength + Strength Upgrade >= 20. I'm assuming you also SoftWeave the helmet, which effectively reduces it to 0 for Encumbrance purposes.

[Kot]

So, it's basically a Windling Troubadour/Archer, right?

[Ultra Violet]

Pixie!

Body 2
STR 1 (maybe Impaired quality)
CHA 8

Mind Over Matter:
CHA as STR = from 1 to 8 = magical STR 8

Heavy Military Armor 16/14 (yes - I know the Availability is to high for the CharGen but not in play)
So 16 - (8+3 (Milspec ArmorStrength Upgrade 3)) = 5
Since Milspec is Encumbrance first at (Body x3) the Pixie has no problem, and could get Mobility Upgrade, too, if needed.
So this little gent is a tank and heavy hitter, too.

[Ultra Violet]

So, it's basically a Windling Troubadour/Archer, right?

Yes - and he kills Troll-Warriors for breakfast.

[Chaemera]

Read Mind Over Matter again, it doesn't turn your Charisma score INTO your Strength score, it only allows you to use it in place of Strength for tests.
Once again, here's the relevant quote from War!:

The adept is truly a master of mind over matter and may use one Mental Attribute in place of one Physical attribute for any tests. The attributes used must correspond per the Astral Attributes table (p. 192, SR4A); for example, only Charisma may be used in place of Strength, only Logic for Agility, etc. Once the attribute substitution is chosen for this power, it cannot be changed.

See how there's nothing that says you use it for anything other than tests, or that your Strength score is in any way changed? I included the whole description so no one can accuse me of cherry-picking the quote.

Anything that modifies your Strength score still modifies your Strength score. Anything derived from / based off of your Strength score... still uses your Strength score.

Pixie!

Body 2
STR 1 (maybe Impaired quality)
CHA 8

Mind Over Matter:
CHA as for STR based tests= from 1 to 8 = magical STR 8

Heavy Military Armor 16/14 (yes - I know the Availability is to high for the CharGen but not in play)
So 16 - (81+3 (Milspec ArmorStrength Upgrade 3)) = 512
Since Milspec is Encumbrance first at (Body x3) the Pixie has a (12 - 6)/2 = -3 Agility / Reaction penaltyno problem, and could get Mobility Upgrade, too.
So this little gent is a tank and heavy hitter, too.