A Rigger With A Plan (Feasability/Consistency Help)

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« Reply #15 on: <12-12-16/2349:16> »
This was discussed in the 4e augmentation books.... and basically the end is: "the tech level isn't there".

No pilot program is "good enough" to take over the 3000+ automonic responses the body generates every minute....

THIS is why cloning is a dead end in SR (used only for organ harvesting).... And as a certain individual has dumped BILLIONS into cloning in the hopes of becoming "not paste in a jar" and has failed... well its not looking good for you either.

Basically the lore and rules say "No" to your idea... but on an even sicker note:

There was/is a vile rigger out there that has a fetish of taking perfectly normal people, kidnapping them, using tech to over-ride their motor control and mental facilities, and then uses them to commit crimes ranging from robberies to murder....

But using clones for the same idea? Nope.... by SR science, they wouldn't survive long enough for the implantation of ware - even IF the ware could do what you are hoping it could (which, by lore it can not)

What you have forgotten is that in SR, there are two sides: the Tech and the Holistic (represented by Essence).
Clones do not have an Essence rating. Which means in SR terms, they are non-functioning "meat". As soon as they come out of statis, they die. They can not accept implants and survive because "their" essence is already 0 and the implant would push them into the negatives.... and thus die.

In SR, Essence is the measure of life and how well the very 'soul' clings to said life.... Clones were never born, they were artifically grown, usually at an accelerated rate, and thus don't really have that magical/mythical 'soul' - the very spark of life - to start with...

And THIS is why cloning in SR is seen as a dead end. While technologically the clone is a perfect copy of the original, they still fail to be viable outside of the Vat they are grown in, and all atempts to keep them viable have failed.... So the only thing they are good for us limb/organ/tissue replacement - as they are a perfect genetic match for the original. Or have been genetically modified to be a 'universal' genetic match (type O donor).

(Essence is also why the infected can't get by on 'bagged' blood or 'canned' meat. They need the Essence of their meal along with the meat/blood.)

And yet you can play an Escaped Clone who is augmented to the nines and back... or one who is awakened. :)
So obviously they DO have an Essence Score. Otherwise both options would be totally impossible. 8)

trying to find where it says you can play as an escaped clone... been through 8 books with no luck. Could you point me to the book and page please?
I remember something to that effect, but can't remember exactly where.....

And to go back to Clones:

here is the most current write up on the matter from Chromed Flesh:

Chromed flesh page 98 - 9 (cut and pasted together)

....Nicknamed “wimps,” they have undeveloped
brains but fully developed forms, allowing you
to simply take what parts you need and leave the rest
either for later use or for eventual recycling.....

....They’re non-entities, despite the urban
legends that you hear, and no, no one can “upload their
brain” into one to gain effective immortality. You’ve
been watching too many sims.....

....Switching gears a bit, there’ve been several attempts to
rig up “wimp drones” using modified versions of biorigging
gear. You’d figure if you can rig a cat and you can
rig a roach, you could rig a wimp, but no, same problem.
The neuro-net just flat-out isn’t developed enough to take
for a ride. You get rumors that Saeder-Krupp or Proteus
has the tech (it’s always the Germans for some reason),
but no one’s ever been able to find proof—and believe
me, we’ve been hunting.....


Note that unlike in 4e, they never give you the stats for a Wimp/clone in 5e. For all intents and purposes, they are non playable. Nor in all my searching is there an option to be a "clone" in 5e....
« Last Edit: <12-13-16/0104:54> by Reaver »
Where am I going? And why am I in a hand basket ???

Remember: You can't fix Stupid. But you can beat on it with a 2x4 until it smartens up! Or dies.


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« Reply #16 on: <12-13-16/0103:16> »
HA! found it!

Runner's companion page 97, printed 2008
Escaped Clone
Cost: 5 BP
At some point, someone made a clone from stored DNA:
maybe your parents wanted their little girl back, maybe a rich
corper thought this was his ticket to immortality, or maybe a
megacorp grew a wimp for experimentation. Maybe she was accidentally
released, saved by a kind soul, or misplaced at a clinic.
Regardless, that clone eventually escaped into the world and realized
its full potential becoming the character.
If scrutinized, the character’s genetic information and biometrics
will often be cross-referenced with the original donor of
the genetic material—depending upon whether the character or
the donor has a dead/deactivated or criminal SIN, this can be
good or bad. It also means that it is much more difficult to identify
the character beyond a reasonable doubt.
Should the character’s nature be revealed, the social stigma
still associated with cloning will lead to a –1 dice pool modifier to
any of his social interactions with anyone aware of it. Additionally,
the character may be wanted or actively hunted by whoever grew
him (this may be best represented by taking a Wanted or Enemy
negative quality).

Which is pretty much contradicted by the actual write up for clones in the Augmentation book.... Which came out a year later. Is this a Retconn? Is this a case of the writers not communicating? (unlikely here as several of the same writers worked on both books), Or is this a casee of upper management saying "No, SR is not going in that direction" ? who knows... But it's pretty clear that if you are ACTUALLY a clone and not a drooling mass of meat, you are something pretty darn special!

While rumors of true doppelgangers, replicant spies, and
full-clone soldiers make for entertaining stories, they are all the
stuff of fiction. To my knowledge, no one has ever managed to
successfully generate a clone with a useful brain (in containment).
Part of the problem is that the development of the brain
is influenced by learning processes in the growth period. Under
enforced growth conditions (basically a combination of hormone
cocktails and genetic therapy to speed through growth cycles), the
brain is not able to keep up with the rest of the body, yielding
an underdeveloped brain that cannot keep the body alive on its
own. Even slow-growth clones exhibit mental disabilities and only
an animal-level intelligence at best, likely due to lack of mental
stimulus from being raised in storage. While there have been tests
by my old employer UniOmni (and I’m sure other corps as well)
to compensate for this by torpedoing the brain with compressed
virtual input (mainly language and simulated motor patterns),
hoping to delude the brain into experiencing stages of development,
to my knowledge they have not been successful so far.
Where am I going? And why am I in a hand basket ???

Remember: You can't fix Stupid. But you can beat on it with a 2x4 until it smartens up! Or dies.