[Arkas]

if it really is the case that by increasing your Magic Rating at character generation you are permanently reducing the number of power points your character will ever earn, there needs to be a warning or other statement in the rules to this effect.

And that really would be at the very very least. It would barely ever make much sense for an Adept to invest additional Points in Magic this way and would always be hurting them. Thus it would be more of a service to players (even though still a misguided one) to actually prohibit Adepts from spending their extra points on Magic.

However I still think this is one of the, by now typical, brainfarts that have been crammed in last minute and need to be remedied by errata... It just makes no sense not to give adepts the Power Points for the Magic rating they get. So my take on this will simply be Adepts start with Power Points equal to Magic rating as per priority table and then gain Power Points every time they gain Magic, be it by Extra Points during char gen or Karma.

And while we are at it, they should also lose Power Points should they permanently lose Magic.

[Michael Chandra]

Yeah I want to both build a few magical characters and design some alternative priorities but can't until errata are out. It sucks.

[skalchemist]

So in my mind, Adept gets his priority based powers and starts a game with a couple of power points ready to spend thanks to Special Attribute Point. Learning a spell (I assume is the same as Adept power) costs 5 karma, takes approx a week and costs some ¥NuYen.

Follow-up to my last post: I just searched the rules PDF and there is no place where it specifies how long it takes to learn a new power DURING play once you have a power point to spend.  It seems reasonable that it would take some time, and maybe some money for a trainer, but I would argue it should not cost Karma because you would already have spent Karma and/or Adjustment points to get whatever it was to get that power point in the first place.

[PatrolDeer]

Also, I agree with what others have said; if it really is the case that by increasing your Magic Rating at character generation you are permanently reducing the number of power points your character will ever earn, there needs to be a warning or other statement in the rules to this effect.

skalchemist, or is it skålchemist ? 

I am for sure mistaken in one thing, learning spells particularly mentions Sorcery and Enchanting as well and needing Magical Lodge.

I am new to Shadowrun, so please apologise me if I am wrong.
There is no cap on how many spells/formulas can character learn. Characters can potentially have Magic Attribute 1 and 20 spells as far as they devote time and costs related to this (5 karma, NuYen)

But Adept powers are gained only if the magic attribute increases (I assume it is because they are not tied to a skill like sorcery, conjuring, enchanting). On the other hand, Aspected Shaman can start with priority D, bump his Magic attribute and has ALL the spirits right of, while Adept has to pick A Priority to get 4 Power Points to start with.
So a pattern I observe here is that different magic abilities cost different amounts, which form my perspective could be unified (I don't know how this worked in previous editions). Than we possibly could avoid exceptions in rules.
Of course this is very easy to say and extremely hard to achieve, as relations between skills, attributes and costs are quite complex.

TL;DR
I think that you can easily accept both statements - that Adepts are limited for their number of starting abilities, but they can enter the game with floating Power Points acquired thanks to bumping the Magic attribute via Special Points.

Finally, there could be little bit more roleplay emphasis on learning the magic in general, so not only learning spells/enchantments/rituals but also learning for Adepts and Aspected Shamans even though they have different cost mechanisms.

And I totally agree with loosing Power Points when loosing Magic.

[Xenon]

But Adept powers are gained only if the magic attribute increases

In almost all cases it will be more economical to earn your first power point(s) post chargen from other sources than spending karma to raise your magic rating (which also mean that spending adjustment points on magic during chargen is actually much better than one might first think).


Non-mystic adepts (but not mystic adepts) gain a free power point whenever their magic rating is increased during game play. Raising magic rating cost new rating x 5 karma. Max magic rating is equal to 6 + current initiation level.

Both mystic adepts and non-mystic adepts may gain a power point whenever they initiate during game play (in place of a metamagic power). Initiation cost 10 + new initiation level karma (so 11 karma for the first time you initiate). Max initiation grade is equal to your current magic rating (your adjusted magic rating, not your unadjusted magic rating from magic or resonance priority). If your initiation level is higher than your current magic rating then your excess initiation levels will be lost (and with it the metamagic or power points you picked).

Both mystic adepts and non-mystic adepts may gain power points by binding qi foci during game play. While focus cannot be bound during chargen, focus can still be bought with resources during chargen and bound with karma post chargen (similar to how magicians may buy spell formula with resources during chargen and then learn the spell with karma post chargen). 1 point of magic (adjusted magic rating, not your unadjusted magic rating from magic or resonance priority) may be used to bind up to 1.25 power points and each power point bound in this manner effectively only have a flat cost of 8 karma.

[PatrolDeer]

But Adept powers are gained only if the magic attribute increases

In almost all cases it will be more economical to earn your first power point(s) post chargen from other sources than spending karma to raise your magic rating (which also mean that spending adjustment points on magic during chargen is actually much better than one might first think).


Non-mystic adepts (but not mystic adepts) gain a free power point whenever their magic rating is increased during game play. Raising magic rating cost new rating x 5 karma. Max magic rating is equal to 6 + current initiation level.

Both mystic adepts and non-mystic adepts may gain a power point whenever they initiate during game play (in place of a metamagic power). Initiation cost 10 + new initiation level karma (so 11 karma for the first time you initiate). Max initiation grade is equal to your current magic rating (your adjusted magic rating, not your unadjusted magic rating from magic or resonance priority). If your initiation level is higher than your current magic rating then your excess initiation levels will be lost (and with it the metamagic or power points you picked).

Both mystic adepts and non-mystic adepts may gain power points by binding qi foci during game play. While focus cannot be bound during chargen, focus can still be bought with resources during chargen and bound with karma post chargen (similar to how magicians may buy spell formula with resources during chargen and then learn the spell with karma post chargen). 1 point of magic (adjusted magic rating, not your unadjusted magic rating from magic or resonance priority) may be used to bind up to 1.25 power points and each power point bound in this manner effectively only have a flat cost of 8 karma.

Thanks you for this! I have to read the rules again, but you solved my problem with roleplay orientation for progress and learning for an adept character.
Edit - As I am reading the rules, you still have to spend karma to increase Magic attribute, page 167 Note that the Magic rank does not increase automatically at initiation—you still must spend Karma to increase it.
Yes, the Qi binding works, I didn't thought about it.

[Arkas]

To me it mainly sounds like trying to math / work around an unclear and likely broken rule, that simply needs to be clarified and fixed instead.

[Xenon]

As I am reading the rules, you still have to spend karma to increase Magic attribute, page 167 Note that the Magic rank does not increase automatically at initiation—you still must spend Karma to increase it.

When you initiate then the Max magic rating increase by 1 (which mean you can have a magic rating above 6), but you don't need to spend karma to raise your magic rating to gain a power point.... When you initiate you get to pick a metamagic power. One of the metamagic powers you can choose as an adept is called Power Point.


If you are a non-mystic adept that have magic 6 and initiate for the first time for 11 karma you can get a power point from that. Now your max magic rating went from 6 to 7 and you have the option to spend another 5x7=35 karma to actually raise your current magic rating from 6 to 7 and raising your magic rating post chargen will give non-mystic adepts a free power point (but not mystic adepts). However, rather than spending 35 karma to raise your magic rating to gain a power point you might want to consider spending just 12 karma to initiate a second time and then 13 karma to initiate a third time. If you pick a power point in both cases you will end up with 2 new power points for a cost of 25 karma rather than a slightly higher magic rating and a power point for 35 karma. Unlike raising magic rating for power points, this also works for mystic adepts.

Or if you still don't have bound your max number of focus you could also consider spending karma to bind qi focus. Power points by binding qi focus only cost 8 karma per power point... and with a magic rating of 6 you can do this until you gain up to a total of 7.5 extra power points (60 karma) before you even need to consider initiating or raising your current magic rating. Unlike raising magic rating for power points, this also works for mystic adepts.

[Michael Chandra]

To me it mainly sounds like trying to math / work around an unclear and likely broken rule, that simply needs to be clarified and fixed instead.

Agreed. I would LOVE to post some houserules and/or clarification, but for that the clear explicit contradiction needs to be fixed first.

[PatrolDeer]

When you initiate then the Max magic rating increase by 1 (which mean you can have a magic rating above 6), but you don't need to spend karma to raise your magic rating to gain a power point.... When you initiate you get to pick a metamagic power. One of the metamagic powers you can choose as an adept is called Power Point.

If you are a non-mystic adept that have magic 6 and initiate for the first time for 11 karma you can get a power point from that. Now your max magic rating went from 6 to 7 and you have the option to spend another 5x7=35 karma to actually raise your current magic rating from 6 to 7 and raising your magic rating post chargen will give non-mystic adepts a free power point (but not mystic adepts). However, rather than spending 35 karma to raise your magic rating to gain a power point you might want to consider spending just 12 karma to initiate a second time and then 13 karma to initiate a third time. If you pick a power point in both cases you will end up with 2 new power points for a cost of 25 karma rather than a slightly higher magic rating and a power point for 35 karma. Unlike raising magic rating for power points, this also works for mystic adepts.

Or if you still don't have bound your max number of focus you could also consider spending karma to bind qi focus. Power points by binding qi focus only cost 8 karma per power point... and with a magic rating of 6 you can do this until you gain up to a total of 7.5 extra power points (60 karma) before you even need to consider initiating or raising your current magic rating. Unlike raising magic rating for power points, this also works for mystic adepts.

Now I understand! Thanks Xenon, I really appreciate it. Gonna heads up my Adept player on this and totally use this for creating NPCs'.
 

[Typhus]

Wait, do I have this right that power points are now decoupled from Magic Rating?  That I could have 7 pp but only 6 Magic? 

I accept it may be RAW but is that also RAI? 

[Stainless Steel Devil Rat]

Post chargen, yes.  Adepts gain PPs when their magic goes up and when the choose the +1PP initiation benefit.   And of course, there's also Qi foci.

I don't think that's new tho; pretty sure that's all how it was in 5e too.

[penllawen]

I accept it may be RAW but is that also RAI?

Basically everything about how power points work should be ignored until more errata land. The strict rules as written right now are incoherent and bordering on unusable. We have no idea how it’s supposed to work right now.

But hey, we have a super active errata process now! All will be well! Although it’s been almost two months now since the book came out, so, err...

[Xenon]

Wait, do I have this right that power points are now decoupled from Magic Rating?  That I could have 7 pp but only 6 Magic? 

What do you mean? This is nothing new...

If you in SR5 have Magic 6, Initiate and pick Power Point as your metamagic you will end up with 7 pp but only 6 Magic as well.

[Typhus]

I never played 5. 

So this is a continuation of a broken rule.  Good lord. 

No wonder people complain about Magicrun.  Yikes.  Just yikes.