[Redwulfe]

I think the two rounds per trigger pull makes since. The paragraph is not clear.

The first sentence makes since by itself you get multiple rounds with a single trigger pull. Then the second sentence says you can fire 4 rounds in an attack. The assumption is that multiple = 4. and that makes sense until you look at wide burst and then if the target are 180 degrees fro you which is possible it no longer makes since that you are firing 4 bullets on a single pull at those two targets. TBH I don't think it needs to makes since but it doesn't.

If you replace the word multiple with two then the first sentence makes since "pumps out 2 rounds with a single trigger pull" and the second sentence still makes since setting the limit of trigger pulls to two for two rounds each. Now wide burst fully makes since as you are making two trigger pulls at 2 rounds each which is basically two SA attacks.

I think the problem is that we assume that Multiple = 4 not that multiple actually = 2.

This now makes Burst fire make more sense and yes it does look similar to 5e which is irrelevant but does show the roots of the firing mode.

[Michael Chandra]

The assumption is that multiple = 4. and that makes sense until you look at wide burst and then if the target are 180 degrees fro you which is possible it no longer makes since that you are firing 4 bullets on a single pull at those two targets.

In that case your GM can say 'enemy placement does not allow you to target both'.

Multiple Attacks (I)
A character can attack more than one opponent,
assuming ammunition, reach, and enemy
placement allow it.

Given how SA mode explicitly states 2 trigger pulls, but BF mode only talks about a single trigger-pull, I do not see any support for 'no it's two trigger pulls even though the rules don't state so'. Not after SA mode explicitly states it. That is far too short a distance to assume such a difference is accidental. A wide burst would simply not be able to target enemies that are too far apart. If you want to do that, you should dual-wield instead.

Also, it'd be called Double-Burst, not Wide-Burst.

[Redwulfe]

In that case your GM can say 'enemy placement does not allow you to target both'.

Yes GMs can make this call, but his once again leaves the work onto the GMs which results in inconstant experiences for players especially in SRM play.

Given how SA mode explicitly states 2 trigger pulls, but BF mode only talks about a single trigger-pull, I do not see any support for 'no it's two trigger pulls even though the rules don't state so'. Not after SA mode explicitly states it. That is far too short a distance to assume such a difference is accidental. A wide burst would simply not be able to target enemies that are too far apart. If you want to do that, you should dual-wield instead.

Also, it'd be called Double-Burst, not Wide-Burst.

It doesn't say that you only pull the trigger once. It says that you "pumps out multiple rounds with a single trigger pull" The assumptions being made is that it is four rounds per pull and that it is only one pull per shot. If multiple, which can mean many different numbers, refers to two then with the second sentence it would be understood that the trigger is being pulled twice and the entire paragraph makes much more sense in all accounts.

[Michael Chandra]

In that case your GM can say 'enemy placement does not allow you to target both'.

Yes GMs can make this call, but his once again leaves the work onto the GMs which results in inconstant experiences for players especially in SRM play.

Yes, Multiple Attacks leaves this up to the GM. And given how there's no formalized 'how close can they be for attack style X to be capable of hitting multiple enemies', it's either GM-leeway, unbelievable 180-degree scenarios, or completely banning it from SRM.

It doesn't say that you only pull the trigger once. It says that you "pumps out multiple rounds with a single trigger pull"

If they wanted a wide burst to be a double burst, they'd have called it a double burst or explicitly have called out that you still pulled the trigger twice. They didn't. Yet they mentioned double-pulling in the SA mode. So it sounds extremely unlikely to me that the wide burst is 2 trigger pulls. Your interpretation goes directly against the language used here. As such, I find your interpretation to make far less sense in all accounts, and your 180-degree scenario extremely unrealistic as supposedly intended. The only way a 'it might be a double-pull' argument could have made any sense, was if SA hadn't explicitly mentioned a double-pull.

And if we're going to go back to SR5 again: SR5 explicitly noted a Long Burst was pulling the trigger twice in BF-mode. So a Burst, whether narrow or wide, was 1 pull. And the explicit double-pull is not mentioned in BF, but is mentioned in SA. So even if we compare SR5 language to SR6, SR6 language is different enough to eliminate any double-pull arguments.

If you want to attack 2 people that cannot possibly be covered by 1 attack: Use dualwielding. Don't go down the road of 'hey the rules may say X, but they don't say Y, so obviously !Y is perfectly fine'. The rules also don't say that you can't hit 30 people with 10 rounds, but that doesn't mean I can.

[Xenon]

I think we are going around in circles (which is probably a good indication on that the firing mode chapter is in need of some attention).

For me the only way the rules as written make sense is if you fire 2 bullets each time you pull the trigger and you pull the trigger twice during both a narrow burst and wide burst. The reason for this is because, as written, wide burst does not put any restrictions at all on how far apart the two targets may be and the only way you can hit two distinct targets that are far apart or without risk hitting friendly targets between your two targets is if you tap the trigger once for each target.

For me to agree that you fire 4 bullets each time you pull the trigger, wide burst need to state that the two targets need to be next to each other, perhaps maximum of 2 meters apart, and that there cannot be any other targets, not friend nor foe, in between them. This would make it clear that wide burst is actually a narrow 'spray and pray'-attack that may hit two targets if they are close enough - rather than two different double-tap attacks against two different distinct targets that lack restrictions when it comes to their positioning (as it is currently written).

A wide burst would simply not be able to target enemies that are too far apart.

This rule is missing. Which is my whole point.

While I disagree that RAW put limitations on how far apart the two targets can be I do agree with you that this is likely RAI
(and hopefully wide burst will be corrected / changed / clarified to properly reflect this in the near future).

[Xenon]

Suggested house rule:


Semi-Automatic:
In this firing mode you may fire two rounds rapidly with two trigger pulls against a single target which will decrease the Attack Rating of your weapon by 2 and increase damage by 1, or fire just one round with one trigger pull, in which case there are no changes to a weapon's attributes.

Burst Firing:
You’ve got a fancy gun that pumps out multiple rounds with a single trigger pull. You can fire four rounds in an attack with one trigger pull. The Attack Rating in this firing mode is decreased by 4. You can shoot a narrow burst against a single target which increase damage by 2, or make a wide burst against two targets, positioned no more than 2 meters apart and with no other targets (not friend nor foe) between them, by taking the multiple attacks minor action and splitting your dice pool. Wide burst increase damage of both attacks by 1.

[Finstersang]

Suggested house rule:


Semi-Automatic:
In this firing mode you may fire two rounds rapidly with two trigger pulls against a single target which will decrease the Attack Rating of your weapon by 2 and increase damage by 1, or fire just one round with one trigger pull, in which case there are no changes to a weapon's attributes.

Burst Firing:
You’ve got a fancy gun that pumps out multiple rounds with a single trigger pull. You can fire four rounds in an attack with one trigger pull. The Attack Rating in this firing mode is decreased by 4. You can shoot a narrow burst against a single target which increase damage by 2, or make a wide burst against two targets, positioned no more than 2 meters apart and with no other targets (not friend nor foe) between them, by taking the multiple attacks minor action and splitting your dice pool. Wide burst increase damage of both attacks by 1.

+1

But most importantly, It´s Full Auto that needs a rework. The way it works now, it´s either a total mechanical trap or (in combination with Anticipation) so obviously broken that it´s getting nerfed by any reasonable GM anyways.

Full Automatic:
In this firing mode you just spray and pay with a single trigger pull, firing 10 rounds a single trigger pull and decreasing the Attack rating by 6 due to the Recoil. You can concentrate your fire on a single target or you can split your Attack between up to 10 targets (if your Dice pool allows it), each one positioned no more than 2 meters apart and with no other targets (not friend nor foe) between them. Of course, the damage potential is bigger as well: Among all your Attacks you may also distribute up to 3 Points of Bonus damage by concentrating you more of your fire on certain targets. F.i., if you Attack 3 different targets, you may decide to hit each target for 1point of bonus damage, two targets for 2 and 1 respectively, or one juicy target for the full 3 points (Of course, if you only attack one target, you may add +3 Damage). The distribution for the bonus damage is declared before the Attack roll.

Anticipate: Add the following restriction: This Edge Action is limited to Multi-Attacks against up to 4 targets, with a maximum of 2 Attacks against each individual target.

Some additional notes:

• I can somewhat appreciate that they tried to mix up the formular with FA instead of just progressing the same way as with SA and BF, but it´s just not working out IMO. One target and +1 Damage for -2 AR, Two targets and +2 Damage for -4 AR, multiple targets and +3 Damage for -6 AR: That´s consistent and somewhat balanced, without FA being the odd man out.
  
• A 4-target limit on Anticipation would still be pretty strong, but at least it´s not "ACKCHYUALLY I could make infinite attacks against one target RAW"-strong. Let the dual-wielding gun bunnies have some fun  
• Also, I´d really like to suppressive fire makes a comeback in combat supplement (especially with the lack of delayed Actions). FA firing would also be a good place for that underused Wild Die mechanic!
• And about that "positioned no more than 2 meters apart and with no other targets (not friend nor foe)" restriction Xenon suggested: Really big fan, because this would also offer the oppurtunity to re-introduce the Safe Target System Accessory with a very concrete effect that doesn´t rely too much on GM handwaving. You gotta think ahead sometimes 

[Xenon]

Anticipation and full auto
Anticipation may not be used with Full Auto firing mode

[Finstersang]

Yeah, or that. The description of Anticipation as some kind of big-brain tactical "gotcha"-move doesn´t really pair well with Full Auto Fire anyways.

Instead, why not give FA its own special Edge use? Something with Wild Dice, for instance?

[MercilessMing]

I'm a bit surprised suppressive fire didn't make it to the CRB seeing as how the new edition's all about edge and suppression seems like an edge generation mechanic to me.  Also surprised they didn't just try making FA a Spray Attack. 

[Michael Chandra]

Eagerly awaiting Firing Squad.